So, where's the Intel monopoly?

[3DVagabond]

Here you go http://guru3d.com/news/intel-retailers-raise-cpu-prices-after-bulldozer-launch/

This^

Anyone who is naive enough to think that competition isn't a major contributor to pricing and tech advancement needs to go back to school. The days of companies charging a fair price have been gone for decades.

 

[toyota]

prices seem about the same to me at newegg

 

[zebrax2]

One answer to this is what IDC said in another thread. Even without competition Intel would still need to compete with their own products. Sell the current gen too high and the vast majority of people would rather stick with what they got.

 

[apathy_next2]

without amd,
we would had to chose between a pention 32bits or a itanium 64
memory controler would still be at nortbridge
have fun with your singre core +ht
igps would suck even more

Do you seriously think that by now intel would not have been able to figure out all of those things above? Being first does not mean that the other guy would not have brought it to market, maybe in a different way sure...22nm chips coming out next year and no Intergrated memory controller, yeah sure I can buy that

 

[jhu]

Do you seriously think that by now intel would not have been able to figure out all of those things above? Being first does not mean that the other guy would not have brought it to market, maybe in a different way sure...22nm chips coming out next year and no Intergrated memory controller, yeah sure I can buy that

That's not the issue. IMC have been with us since th early '90s. The issue is that not adding these things makes the die smaller and thus cheaper to produce. But without competition they would have no incentive to lower prices even with decreased production costs.

 

[Red Storm]

One answer to this is what IDC said in another thread. Even without competition Intel would still need to compete with their own products. Sell the current gen too high and the vast majority of people would rather stick with what they got.

True, but then Intel's next gen release gets delayed slightly. The follow up refresh takes longer. Less new features with the next new architecture, etc.

In other words, this isn't something that suddenly switches on overnight.

 

[Olikan]

Do you seriously think that by now intel would not have been able to figure out all of those things above? Being first does not mean that the other guy would not have brought it to market, maybe in a different way sure...22nm chips coming out next year and no Intergrated memory controller, yeah sure I can buy that

let me see....mmm.....probably, but who knows?

just take a look at the mobile gpus.
amd used to have a good lead because of theyr small comsuption
nvidia than came with optimus, now nvidia leads

amd just now came with it's version, but just by that it won't take back it's old shape....guess what? now amd may come with HPL process for mobile. If that really pays off is other question....

who is behind allways try to use creative ways to take the lead, sometimes it fails (see bulldozer), sometimes it's awsome (see core 2 duo), sometimes is just not enought (see amd latest chips)

 

[PreferLinux]

I last used Ubuntu 11.4 and it's still not as responsive as my Win7 setup. This has been one of my primary issues with linux, on top of not being able to run any of the software I use for business or entertainment. I've also measured cross platform apps to be notably slower at loading under Ubuntu. Not sure if this is different with Debian or some other distro, but just my experience.

Then why bother with GNOME/Unity? Try a different desktop environment such as KDE or Xfce. Even a different distro such as openSUSE or Fedora. As for software, are you stuck with particular programs, or do you just need anything to do a particular job? And the loading times for me are much quicker on Linux than Windoze for me.

on the linux front - every few months or so, i try and get used to the newest ubuntu with virtualbox. there's always something that frustrates the hell out of me. last time around, was having to jump through hoops just to install handbrake as there was no precompiled file. gave up after seeing it was a 2 page guide on how to do it!

made things simpler now. anything at all that requires me to go into terminal = stop, try again in a year. gonna guess i'll be a windows boy for a fair bit longer in that case.

So why are you crazy enough to only stick with Ubuntu? openSUSE is every bit as good, and at least as easy to use.

 

[bononos]

Then why bother with GNOME/Unity? Try a different desktop environment such as KDE or Xfce. Even a different distro such as openSUSE or Fedora. As for software, are you stuck with particular programs, or do you just need anything to do a particular job? And the loading times for me are much quicker on Linux than Windoze for me.

So why are you crazy enough to only stick with Ubuntu? openSUSE is every bit as good, and at least as easy to use.

From the end user perspective it sounds way complicated, think about it -Gnome/Unity/KDE/XFCE/SUSE/Fedora/Bla bla bla, never mind Win7 Home ftw

Ubuntu has the reputation of being user friendly and easy to install and all that, being called 'crazy' for using Ubuntu is akin to saying linux should only be dabbled with by SW engrs.

 

[toyota]

Intel launches the Core i7-2700K, reduces pricing on some CPUs

Read more: http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-l...pricing-on-some-cpus/13797.html#ixzz1bghfNUN3

 

[ed29a]

But even with lack of competition, Intel gives us an incredible value.

a 990X for $1,000

Bold emphasis is mine.

So whenever I hear people claiming that the reason our CPUs nowadays are fantastic is due to AMD's competition and without it we'd be doomed, I chuckle.

Explain this.

 

[sm625]

I dont see intel giving a good value. I am still looking for a $100 cpu/gpu/apu that can play LoL fluidly on max settings. It sure as hell aint an i3-2100. Nor is it a pentium G620 and a $30 gpu. An A6-3500 just might do it though. Imo that is the best value, especially if the latest OC rumors are true. And it is not an intel part. The more expensive stuff dont matter to me, and it dont matter to 99% of computer users either.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It's called the used market, sm625.

 

[Arachnotronic]

ed29a:

First off, Newegg's prices haven't changed a bit, and according to Intel's own price list, prices haven't changed. If retailers gouge, that's their fault, not Intel's.

Second, yes the 990x is $1000, but that is the TOP END CPU FOR THE DESKTOP. Do note that Intel offers a $219 2500K that, for gamers, is essentially isomorphic to the 990x.

There are $200,000 cars even with competition -- but there are also the Corollas of the world.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Bold emphasis is mine.



Explain this.

an FX-60 and FX-57 for $1,000. Bold emphasis is mine.

Nothing needing explanation. It happened in the European market, and I don't see you complaining about Bulldozer being initially priced higher than it was supposed to. The FX-8120 was supposed to be $205-210 and is at $220, while the FX-8150 was supposed to be at $245-250 and is at $280. Even at the correct prices they're both worse for the money than the i5-2500K.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

We are seeing the Intel monopoly. If AMD was a competent CPU maker the i5 2500k would be $100.

 

[zsdersw]

We are seeing the Intel monopoly. If AMD was a competent CPU maker the i5 2500k would be $100.

Specious reasoning. The i5 2500K is not a high-volume part that ends up in the hands of a lot of people or a lot of people's pre-built computers. As such, no, it would not be $100.. whether AMD was competent or not.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Specious reasoning. The i5 2500K is not a high-volume part that ends up in the hands of a lot of people or a lot of people's pre-built computers. As such, no, it would not be $100.. whether AMD was competent or not.

This. Given extremely good competition the absolute cheapest the 2500K was gonna end up was $180. People still need to remember it's a Performance market part.

 

[sm625]

It's called the used market, sm625.

Yeah, on ebay there is a GTS 250 auction ending in just a few minutes. If I could get that for $55 it would be great combined with a wolfdale E3400 or something like that. By far the best $100 gaming cpu/gpu/apu solution. It is just sad that new tech cannot compete with older...

 

[Edrick]

This. Given extremely good competition the absolute cheapest the 2500K was gonna end up was $180. People still need to remember it's a Performance market part.

Well, if BD really destroyed SB by a huge margin, then I bet Intel would have reduced pricing even more.

 

[hasu]

<off topic>

I last used Ubuntu 11.4 and it's still not as responsive as my Win7 setup. This has been one of my primary issues with linux, on top of not being able to run any of the software I use for business or entertainment. I've also measured cross platform apps to be notably slower at loading under Ubuntu. Not sure if this is different with Debian or some other distro, but just my experience.

I have 64 bit versions of Windows 7 Professional (NTFS) and LinuxMint 11 (ext4) installed on two almost identical machines (AMD Phenom II quad core with 8 and 16GB RAM). I tried 32 bit Windows XP in VirtualBox on both and found that the VM was visibly more responsive on LinuxMint compared to Windows 7. This is just an observation as I have nothing against Windows (I develop programs for Windows and I have no plans to switch my preferred platform). I believe the performance difference is because the standard installation of Linux is running lean and native code compared to a standard installation of Windows 7. What I am going to try is to install Windows 7 on a VirtualBox running on LinuxMint and try to use that for development purposes.

</off topic>

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Well, if BD really destroyed SB by a huge margin, then I bet Intel would have reduced pricing even more.

But we all know that's not how AMD's CPU department works, don't we? AMD has typically priced their CPUs in the same range as their performance comparable Intel rivals (PII X4 940 vs C2Q Q9400; X6 1090T vs i7-860) or more expensive and slower (P X4 9950/9850 vs C2Q Q6600; FX-8150 vs i5-2500K).

You can really only expect amazing bang-for-buck sometimes from the GPU division. *Looks at Radeon HD 4850 and HD 4870*.

 

[zlejedi]

You can really only expect amazing bang-for-buck sometimes from the GPU division. *Looks at Radeon HD 4850 and HD 4870*.

That only happens if they want to win some marketshare after not so good generation.

Best cards in history of ATi - 9700/9500 pro series which came after Nvidia ti 4200 generation where ATI was barely known.
X800GTO - nvidia was kicking their ass with 6 series gpus
X1800GTO - was ati stop gap solution to combat 7600gt/7800gt
2900 pro 256bit - amazing value but only because they wanted to get rid of chips after 2900xt fiasco and before introducing 38x0 series
48x0 - good card at good price coming after lackluster generations kinda like 9700
pricing on 5 series cards were nowhere near as atractive and 5830 unlike it's predecessor like X800GTO/X1800GTO didn't unlock which probably isn't coincidence given AMD rule of gpu market at that time.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That only happens if they want to win some marketshare after not so good generation.

Best cards in history of ATi - 9700/9500 pro series which came after Nvidia ti 4200 generation where ATI was barely known.
X800GTO - nvidia was kicking their ass with 6 series gpus
X1800GTO - was ati stop gap solution to combat 7600gt/7800gt
2900 pro 256bit - amazing value but only because they wanted to get rid of chips after 2900xt fiasco and before introducing 38x0 series
48x0 - good card at good price coming after lackluster generations kinda like 9700
pricing on 5 series cards were nowhere near as atractive and 5830 unlike it's predecessor like X800GTO/X1800GTO didn't unlock which probably isn't coincidence given AMD rule of gpu market at that time.

That's why I said "some". Even with the Phenom being a huge disaster, the Phenom II only matched its competitors on price/performance.

The Radeon HD 6800 was/is great bang-for-buck, too, as is the HD 6770 and HD 6950 1GB. Given how successful this generation AMD has been they don't need to come out with something extremely great like the 4800 series.

 

[SickBeast]

OP, $300 for a high end CPU is certainly not a "value".

$100 for a high end CPU is what people have traditionally been able to get.

That's still somewhat possible by overclocking an AMD chip, but it's nowhere near as good as it's been historically. My 2500+ mobile barton far exceeded anything else on the market when run at 2600mhz, and it stayed ahead of the curve for a good year to two years after I bought it.

We have entered the dark ages of CPUs. Prepare for a lack of innovation and high prices for at least 2-3 years. I hope you all like what you've got, because it's going to stay that way lest you pony up and pay the Intel Tax Man thy tithe. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

/thread