So why did Hillary lose?

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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
What specific assertion of the article was wrong and why? Simply bashing Trump is a very non-responsive response and explains nothing.
The majority of white America, and white Britain fell under a clever hypnotic ruse by the ultra-elite/Russian-funded establishment. It played on the fear of the white people and or simply gave a simple message that it would be better for them.

“Isn’t it time to take back control?"
"Make America, Great Again"

As if Britain had lost control or America had lost its greatness. High majority (>60%) of the decision for Trump or Brexit came from this. The ability to gain control or to renew greatness. Except, it was all built on fabrications and lies.

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/videos/949213945176847/
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
The majority of white America, and white Britain fell under a clever hypnotic ruse by the ultra-elite/Russian-funded establishment. It played on the fear of the white people and or simply gave a simple message that it would be better for them.

“Isn’t it time to take back control?"
"Make America, Great Again"

As if Britain had lost control or America had lost its greatness. High majority (>60%) of the decision for Trump or Brexit came from this. The ability to gain control or to renew greatness. Except, it was all built on fabrications and lies.


Ok you did not read the article. None of what you said above has a anything to do with the points made in the article. I would like your perspective on the points MADE IN THE ARTICLE.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I do not think accusing Trump voters as bigots is correct or desirable, even if there were truth to it. It is OK to point out and criticize Trump's (or anyone's) bigoted comments. Accusing fellow citizens of bigotry is not when you do not know the myriad of reasons why one voted for Trump.
 
Reactions: crashtech

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
I think the article is wrong.

The campaign of Donald John Trump was built upon Misogyny, Racism, Anti-semiticism, Cronyism, Lying... it was all ignored by would you kindly make america great again?

The how in the world did he not get elected? Even 1/2 of Fox News was on his ass. The majority of the mainstream media did everything they could to get Hillary elected. Just goes to show you what a piece of shit she was. She had the media, liberal Hollywood, late night comedians, debate moderators, you name it. I think that tendency to look the other way from her corruption and criminality doomed her. I don't want trump in the White House... But if Hillary took bribes as Secretary of State.... No telling what her and George Soros would do with the White House.

I know people like bill maher thinks trump will be some kind of all powerful fascist who is now president for life (yes he said that)... I don think trump will do as much damage as Hillary. Hell most of the GOP in congress are on the same payroll as Hillary.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,540
191
106
My dog just came over here. He doesn't care about anything as long as his back is scratched.
He will let me say and do anything as long as his back is scratched.
Nativism is just a different way of accumulating power. Another way to divide and sell us to ourselves. Justification for rage, loneliness, joblessness, housing and slights real and perceived.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
Ok you did not read the article. None of what you said above has a anything to do with the points made in the article. I would like your perspective on the points MADE IN THE ARTICLE.
There were no valid points from the article. It mostly regurgitated blatant lies and is rambling that makes no sense.

The brexit vote and Trump vote comes from a scared white populace. That are constantly being told that their decision does not matter. That the world is corrupt/evil/bad place and you should isolate yourself. It is found upon a sham, that implies the people are losing their control or losing greatness to a hemorrhaging diverse population.

- Immigration is wiping out the white populace be afraid, your time is with the Neanderthals, white man, away with thee! (mostly, in maine)
- Immigration is bringing in criminals rather than people looking for a greater life that isn't a warzone.
- Once out of an Alliance that is increasing refugee and war happy, there will no longer be wars.
- Down with the establishment, long live the establishment!
- Women are superior to men, and they are taking good jobs for men!

The message they are remembered by is fine. Everything else that is not fine is ignored. Upon faith that they will regain control or become great again. There is no proof that a criminal like Trump who gets away with not paying his employees(contract), frauding people in a fake university. Can or will actually give you more control and more greatness. The same goes for the EU.Leave/Brexit in fact removing your access means a loss of control.

Hillary Clinton private and public took a different road than above. "Stronger, Together" was the motive. Unification is better than stratification. Everyone then was like woah wait, nah gurl you a criminal. Look at all these conspiracy theories, u totally criminal & nasty. Emails, emails, emails which shown nothing criminal, but the population is like ALEX JONES says this a crime, thus it issssss...
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
You have simply bought into the spin, there was nothing corrupt or crooked about them.

I will agree with ivwshane here. I don't think the leaks showed us anything we didn't already know. What it did was confirm what we already knew about politics. That's bad in an anti-establishment environment. We saw the sausage being made, and it wasn't pretty. Collusion for favorable press, back room deals. All the things people hate about politicians was laid bare, and it pointed at Hillary and her political machine.

There was no smoking gun, but it proved that she was just more of the same beltway scum that people are tired of.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
The majority of white America, and white Britain fell under a clever hypnotic ruse by the ultra-elite/Russian-funded establishment. It played on the fear of the white people and or simply gave a simple message that it would be better for them.

“Isn’t it time to take back control?"
"Make America, Great Again"

As if Britain had lost control or America had lost its greatness. High majority (>60%) of the decision for Trump or Brexit came from this. The ability to gain control or to renew greatness. Except, it was all built on fabrications and lies.

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/videos/949213945176847/

For those Democrats willing to listen, this ^^^ is what cost you the election.
 

MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
9,692
36
91
Here is a pretty good video on someone predicting back in May why Hillary would lose. Although he did say that it would be a "landslide" by Trump, which did not happen, much of what he said makes since and ended up coming true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibRNYJmZ-I

Say what you want about Trump but it can't be denied that he did a TON of rallying, he was constantly on the road. The dude would hit up 2-3 cities a day at times and while the media was focusing on the polls they just kind of ignored the massive turn outs his rallies were getting and in the end the pollsters predictions ended up being rubbish. It seemed like the democrats just kind of coasted in this election to me.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
Clinton herself was acutely aware of the pain of everyday folks. It is right there in her infamous "The Deplorable" speech. Trump campaign exploited it out of context and the press which is supposed to be in Clinton's tank did not report it correctly, and I assume a lot of folks here probably did not pay attention to it other than parroting "the deplorable" joke.

Hillary Clinton said:
Don’t get complacent. Don’t see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment [from Trump] and think, “Well, he’s done this time.” We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people, now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America. …

But that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures. And they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

There. (make sure to read below the fold) She talks exactly about what pundits like Glen Greenwald is now accusing her of neglecting. It is a shame how misunderstood this woman is in American politics.
 
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sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
^ You talk as if Trump did not provide the fodder.

He did and in hindsight it was masterful. He said things to the point that nobody dug up that pic of him holding up an LGBT flag. That would have sunk his chances. Instead of anyone reviewing his actual history and all the liberal things he's said over the years he used this shock technique to get the media to focus on it and reel his base in for him.

Pretty darn clever. He was a media insider he knew how it works. He used them to get his "message" out. It's just hilarious how stupid the MSM and it's watchers are.
 
Reactions: disappoint

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,334
15,128
136
Clinton herself was acutely aware of the pain of everyday folks. It is right there in her infamous "The Deplorable" speech. Trump campaign exploited it out of context and the press which is supposed to be in Clinton's tank did not report it correctly, and I assume a lot of folks here probably did not pay attention to it other than parroting "the deplorable" joke.



There. (make sure to read below the fold) She talks exactly about what pundits like Glen Greenwald is now accusing her of neglecting. It is a shame how misunderstood this woman is in American politics.

I've been saying this for a while now and it's why I've said she was a horrible politician. Any decent politician would have been able to use her experience and qualifications as a means to get elected. But she isn't a natural politician and she's not good at connecting with large swaths of people at a time despite being able to connect with people in person on a personal level.

In my opinion she almost ran a good campaign. She didn't take attacks personal, she effectively portrayed her opponent as easily provoked, she looked presidential, she had well thought out plans. Where she failed though, she didn't have a solid bumper sticker message that resonated, she didn't articulate her plans at the national level, or maybe rather she didn't keep driving her plans home, she focused more on trumps negatives rather than focusing on her positives.

I also saw very little in the way of get out the vote campaigns.
 
Reactions: trenchfoot

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,951
20,220
136
I've been saying this for a while now and it's why I've said she was a horrible politician. Any decent politician would have been able to use her experience and qualifications as a means to get elected. But she isn't a natural politician and she's not good at connecting with large swaths of people at a time despite being able to connect with people in person on a personal level.

In my opinion she almost ran a good campaign. She didn't take attacks personal, she effectively portrayed her opponent as easily provoked, she looked presidential, she had well thought out plans. Where she failed though, she didn't have a solid bumper sticker message that resonated, she didn't articulate her plans at the national level, or maybe rather she didn't keep driving her plans home, she focused more on trumps negatives rather than focusing on her positives.

She definitely isn't a natural politician with the charisma of an Obama. She is stiff and uses big words and complex policy talk. She is not inspiring most of the time.

Trump was talking at a level several grades below Clinton, and it resonated better with a large swath of the population who was sick of politician talk and wanted an everyday man talker. But he was fiery and persistant to the point that he normalized things that would normally have sunk any other politician.

But even with all her flaws there were three main things that sunk Hillary - Emails, Benghazi and Clinton Foundation and to a smaller extent, Bill Clinton's sexual activity, Russian uranium and a couple others. Those things drowned out her message and you are right, she had no bumper sticker message either. The majority of pro-Trump anti-Hillary memes I saw online were about those things. Oh that and that Hillary has murdered a bunch of people like Vince Foster and Muslims are very bad. Very little was about policy stuff.

edit: Wikileaks. I think if there was no Emails, Benghazi and CF she could have still won with Wikileaks and all.
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
There were no valid points from the article. It mostly regurgitated blatant lies and is rambling that makes no sense.

The brexit vote and Trump vote comes from a scared white populace. That are constantly being told that their decision does not matter. That the world is corrupt/evil/bad place and you should isolate yourself. It is found upon a sham, that implies the people are losing their control or losing greatness to a hemorrhaging diverse population.

- Immigration is wiping out the white populace be afraid, your time is with the Neanderthals, white man, away with thee! (mostly, in maine)
- Immigration is bringing in criminals rather than people looking for a greater life that isn't a warzone.
- Once out of an Alliance that is increasing refugee and war happy, there will no longer be wars.
- Down with the establishment, long live the establishment!
- Women are superior to men, and they are taking good jobs for men!

The message they are remembered by is fine. Everything else that is not fine is ignored. Upon faith that they will regain control or become great again. There is no proof that a criminal like Trump who gets away with not paying his employees(contract), frauding people in a fake university. Can or will actually give you more control and more greatness. The same goes for the EU.Leave/Brexit in fact removing your access means a loss of control.

Hillary Clinton private and public took a different road than above. "Stronger, Together" was the motive. Unification is better than stratification. Everyone then was like woah wait, nah gurl you a criminal. Look at all these conspiracy theories, u totally criminal & nasty. Emails, emails, emails which shown nothing criminal, but the population is like ALEX JONES says this a crime, thus it issssss...
Scared white populace? LMAO. Millions of minorities who voted for obama voted Trump, including 35% of the latino vote. Go back to your cave and spew more "omg Russia!" FUD.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
I will agree with ivwshane here. I don't think the leaks showed us anything we didn't already know. What it did was confirm what we already knew about politics. That's bad in an anti-establishment environment. We saw the sausage being made, and it wasn't pretty. Collusion for favorable press, back room deals. All the things people hate about politicians was laid bare, and it pointed at Hillary and her political machine.

There was no smoking gun, but it proved that she was just more of the same beltway scum that people are tired of.
BS they didn't. Did you even read www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com ?

They were absolutely damning to Bernie supporters who may have thought their candidate got a raw deal, but to have hard evidence (rigged to hell and back would be the term) is an entirely different thing. Obama lying about not knowing anything hillary's emails, and hillary's camp discussing using executive privilege to cover it up from Congress? Or that they were in direct communication with their contacts at DOJ during the investigation? That she directly paid people to disrupt Trump's rallies? Mocking Catholics and latinos and blacks? Pay for play with the clinton foundation and saudi's and moroccans? Her ties at State trying to bribe the FBI to un-classify emails? That she wanted to rig the Palestinian election? Getting debate questions in advance?

And on and on and on. No, a lot of these weren't things that we imagined. What the leaks showed us was that the corruption was 10x worse than anyone thought.
 
Reactions: disappoint

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
He did and in hindsight it was masterful. He said things to the point that nobody dug up that pic of him holding up an LGBT flag. That would have sunk his chances. Instead of anyone reviewing his actual history and all the liberal things he's said over the years he used this shock technique to get the media to focus on it and reel his base in for him.

Pretty darn clever. He was a media insider he knew how it works. He used them to get his "message" out. It's just hilarious how stupid the MSM and it's watchers are.

Scott Adams talks about how he did this. You should read his blog (Dilbert author).

I thought DJT was a buffoon at first, but no he isn't a buffoon at all.

Once you understand what Trump is doing, and you understand that a 70 year old guy doesn't radically change from philosophies he has held his entire life, you can understand what he is doing. DJT is an anti-globalist, pro-America liberal.

Scott considers him to be the best "Persuader" on the planet. Obama and Clinton both used persuasion techniques in their campaigns, hiring consultants for this.

Trump doesn't need a consultant.

Here's one example, from Scott's blog :

"8. Pacing and Leading: When normal politicians change their minds we label it flip-flopping or – more kindly – “evolving” in their thinking. When a Master Persuader does it, you are seeing pacing and leading, which is a major tool of persuasion. Pacing involves matching people – in this case emotionally – and later using that bond to lead them. We see Trump doing this often.

a. Trump paced his base by saying he would deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. Once he had his base on his side emotionally, he led to them to his current policy of deporting only the people who committed crimes while here. Have you heard any Trump supporters complain about it lately?

b. Trump paced his base by saying he would ban all Muslim immigration to stop terrorist infiltration. Once he had them on his side emotionally, he led them first to a ban on specific problem countries, and then again to “extreme vetting,” which is a lot like Clinton’s plan. Trump supporters followed, and you don’t hear them complaining.

c. Early in the primaries Trump paced the racists in the Republican party by not disavowing them as clearly and as loudly as even the racists thought he would. Since then he has led Republicans to think that some form of a “New Deal” for African-Americans might be worth a look.

d. At the Republican National Convention, Trump used his emotional connection to his supporters to declare he was the strongest voice to protect the LGBTQ community. Republicans stood and cheered. "


Something I should point out --

This stuff of having a GOP candidate get up in front of the RNC convention and say he wil lprotect LGBTQs would never have happened with any other GOP candidate.

Standing there waving a gay pride flag would also never have happened with any other GOP candidate.

Think about that.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I've been saying this for a while now and it's why I've said she was a horrible politician. Any decent politician would have been able to use her experience and qualifications as a means to get elected. But she isn't a natural politician and she's not good at connecting with large swaths of people at a time despite being able to connect with people in person on a personal level.
But that is a reason NOT to nominate her, or a reason to discourage her run. Not an explanation as to why her campaign was not good enough.


In my opinion she almost ran a good campaign. She didn't take attacks personal, she effectively portrayed her opponent as easily provoked, she looked presidential, she had well thought out plans. Where she failed though, she didn't have a solid bumper sticker message that resonated, she didn't articulate her plans at the national level, or maybe rather she didn't keep driving her plans home, she focused more on trumps negatives rather than focusing on her positives.
I think we agree more than disagree. I do think, in retrospect, Bernie might have been a better candidate this cycle. But that is just that. A wishful thinking, what if's, Coulda-shoulda-woulda. I did think she was well qualified for the job and she would be a better president than most GOP candidates, and that was good enough for me to accept her nomination. I also think she ran a fantastic campaign. Too calibrated and scripted for some, but that would be the case for any female candidate for some time to come. I thought the country was ready. (Apparently not)
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
ABC News Nightline did a story about the election tonight and the code name for HC when she was the first lady was "Evergreen". Maybe it should be "Email Server" or "Swipe"? LOL.

And the story shown how DT is the one with the last laugh about the joke BO put on DT several years back at a roast with full of celebrities that DT would be the US President.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Scott Adams talks about how he did this. You should read his blog (Dilbert author).

I thought DJT was a buffoon at first, but no he isn't a buffoon at all.

Once you understand what Trump is doing, and you understand that a 70 year old guy doesn't radically change from philosophies he has held his entire life, you can understand what he is doing. DJT is an anti-globalist, pro-America liberal.

Scott considers him to be the best "Persuader" on the planet. Obama and Clinton both used persuasion techniques in their campaigns, hiring consultants for this.

Trump doesn't need a consultant.

Here's one example, from Scott's blog :

"8. Pacing and Leading: When normal politicians change their minds we label it flip-flopping or – more kindly – “evolving” in their thinking. When a Master Persuader does it, you are seeing pacing and leading, which is a major tool of persuasion. Pacing involves matching people – in this case emotionally – and later using that bond to lead them. We see Trump doing this often.

a. Trump paced his base by saying he would deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. Once he had his base on his side emotionally, he led to them to his current policy of deporting only the people who committed crimes while here. Have you heard any Trump supporters complain about it lately?

b. Trump paced his base by saying he would ban all Muslim immigration to stop terrorist infiltration. Once he had them on his side emotionally, he led them first to a ban on specific problem countries, and then again to “extreme vetting,” which is a lot like Clinton’s plan. Trump supporters followed, and you don’t hear them complaining.

c. Early in the primaries Trump paced the racists in the Republican party by not disavowing them as clearly and as loudly as even the racists thought he would. Since then he has led Republicans to think that some form of a “New Deal” for African-Americans might be worth a look.

d. At the Republican National Convention, Trump used his emotional connection to his supporters to declare he was the strongest voice to protect the LGBTQ community. Republicans stood and cheered. "


Something I should point out --

This stuff of having a GOP candidate get up in front of the RNC convention and say he wil lprotect LGBTQs would never have happened with any other GOP candidate.

Standing there waving a gay pride flag would also never have happened with any other GOP candidate.

Think about that.

I'm going to read his blog. I'm just so fascinated by how this happened. It's almost surreal.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,554
2,138
146
...Bernie might have been a better candidate this cycle...
Bernie is a mensch, with far more personality and grit than Hillary, but his politics were just too far from the mainstream. Still, his nomination would have been far more interesting than what we got, imo.
...I thought the country was ready. (Apparently not)

A good female nominee wouldn't have any problem winning. The country is more than ready, but Ms. Clinton was not the right person for the job, or representative for her gender, if you will.
 
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