So why did Hillary lose?

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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Hilary lost because she's Hilary. Never before has a self-appointed guardian of the poor, oppressed and downtrodden who promised to be Santa Claus for the poor, oppressed and downtrodden failed so utterly at connecting with the poor, oppressed and downtrodden.

Usually a democrat can get lots of voters to go to the polls while screaming "gimme! gimme! gimme!" at the top of their lungs because all they're interested in is their government entitlements. In this case Hilary was so completely unlikable that she couldn't even get people to vote for her by promising them free money. She was let down by the usual democrat voting base. The only people who voted for Hilary didn't really want her, they were just voting against Trump.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
I hope you look forward to being called out for helping Trump with the "it doesn't matter about Clinton as long as she wins" attitude, which in the aggregate helped him to win.

Clinton supporters had to have her and not everyone who didn't support Trump agreed. That is a fatal lack of vision.

Well, it's going to be interesting seeing the whining and finger pointing. Maybe enough of us will not really care about those types and can use this as an opportunity in spite of the party hacks. Maybe, maybe not.

Nope! You didn't vote for her so the results are on you. You are another whiny little bitch Bernie bro who didn't get your way and threw a temper tantrum. Own it!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
So why are they overwhelming replying in the affirmative to questions like "minority X is getting ahead at the expense of whites"? Particularly for trump even within the GOP field? Seems rather obvious that even the conservative establishment greatly underestimate the sheer level of these sentiments; had Romney or McCain gone full bore with birtherism and such as their successor had they might well have won like he did. Despite what many here like to think, Trump is not stupid and in fact rather cunning as a politician; evidently more so than people who believe he's dumb.

Even as someone incredibly cynical about the amount of racism under the surface in this country, the predictive power of these question on political leaning surprised me.



The democrat aren't exactly going to pander to white nationalist ideals.


The Democrats do pander and they do not understand the least little bit about human nature. I suggest you consider the reverse situation. Are blacks racist when they think of themselves preferentially over whites?

You may argue yes or no, but you are missing the larger issue and that is America is no longer a land of true opportunity for ANYONE other than the extreme wealthy. EVERYONE, black or white, deserves a chance and the Democrats cry "white supremacy" when it's more a matter of fearfulness for people's children. Hillary talks about her girls having privilege because they are white, disregarding that she's part of a would be dynasty and wealthy beyond most people's dream because of her corporatist links. By extension the white guy who just lost his job or had his hours cut and worries if he can keep a roof over his family's heads has been told "you are like them and be grateful for it". Then the Dems talk about how they are going to make minority lives better (and yes they deserve it) but fail to be inclusive. In fact they to the opposite route.

So Mr White Guy does fear that the small pool of vanishing good jobs will be taken away by the Left and Hillary rather than expanding opportunity for all. He does worry about race and for that he's a white supremacist racist that the Dems eschew.

If one cannot understand the larger and deeper significance of underlying causation but relies on simple questions as sufficient evidence to provide a broad stamp of "white racists" they are no better than those who claim "black crime" applies to mere inferiority of character in the inner city.

No, things aren't that simple.
 

Kazukian

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,034
650
91
Nope! You didn't vote for her so the results are on you. You are another whiny little bitch Bernie bro who didn't get your way and threw a temper tantrum. Own it!

An there's another reason she lost. The "anti bullying candidate" who's followers think nothing of bullying people.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Nope! You didn't vote for her so the results are on you. You are another whiny little bitch Bernie bro who didn't get your way and threw a temper tantrum. Own it!
I didn't have a temper tantrum. I was sad, but that was it. Now you will blame everyone but yourself and the cycle continues. You would not have it any other way. To put it in Biblical terms, you bear the mark of Cain and you blame everyone but yourself.

Enjoy your suffering, you earned it by your lack of vision. How sad.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
An there's another reason she lost. The "anti bullying candidate" who's followers think nothing of bullying people.


Some people are temperamentally disinclined to allow introspection and criticism. There is much blame to go around for the current situation and neither side is exempt. It leads to explosive commentary as a defense mechanism and is completely self defeating.

Well, here's hoping that we'll have a Phoenix from the ashes.
 
Reactions: Kazukian

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Not really. 538 gave trump better odds than most others. They went into the election giving him 28% chance of winning. Huffingtonpost gave him a 1.5% chance of winning.

It looks to me like 538 was off, but not massively.

Agreed, 538 was the least-wrong metric, but what was still way off. People thinking that some bought into "538 koolaid" weren't really paying attention to the shit that Nate Silver was taking from the left regarding his crazy fluctuations and why he always showed a higher chance for a Trump win. He's the only one that figured in potential for significant polling error in his model, but was still clearly not enough.

To his credit, he was quick to acknowledge that the polling was clearly wrong.
 
Reactions: Kazukian

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
I didn't have a temper tantrum. I was sad, but that was it. Now you will blame everyone but yourself and the cycle continues. You would not have it any other way. To put it in Biblical terms, you bear the mark of Cain and you blame everyone but yourself.

Enjoy your suffering, you earned it by your lack of vision. How sad.

There were two options on the ballot and none of them were for bernie, I voted for Hillary you didn't. Own it.


Btw, I'm in California, there will be no suffering for me
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
She had no bumper sticker type slogan that could sum up the reason to vote for her. Can anyone tell me what she was running on? I supported her and I cannot think of it.

You don't remember "Stronger Together"? That's one for the ages! [/sarcasm]

Lastly, she was too honest. For example, when she said that our current energy policies and her energy policies have/would put out coal workers. She was being brutally honest and it cost her.

Now you're just being funny. Hilarious, actually.
 
Reactions: Kazukian

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
It strikes me as incredibly intellectually lazy that you can't be bothered to google something you already have a position on.
Position on what exactly...? You've only corrected my perception of the number of Trump voters...
Anyways... It's pretty late here, I'm off.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
RBG is going to die on the bench so Scalia's slot may be the limit of the damage.

yeah I was telling my mom this weekend that if Trump miraculously wins, you will see RGB hooking herself up to machines and permanently installing a medical bed at the SCOTUS bench just to hang on for 4 more years.

Man, I wonder how Souter feels now, retiring so, so "young." (not that this matters in terms of influence, as his seat went to Soto-Mayor?)
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
An there's another reason she lost. The "anti bullying candidate" who's followers think nothing of bullying people.

Hurry! Someone get this guy a safe space!! My words are too strong of an influence for him to be overcome by independent thought!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
This had as little to do with ideology as a political election can. Clinton represented the traditional political dynastic class, privleged and elite and enjoying it. Trump was the quintessential outsider shaking up the system. People voted to shake up the system because they were tired of political elites looking down their noses at them. Plain and simple. Would have worked the same way if it was Jeb Bush vs Bernie Sanders: Bush would have lost because Bernie was an outsider shaking up the system, and a Bush is the same sort of privliged political elite as a Clinton is.

I was telling myself this morning that it is probably very much like a Jacksonian mob rushing the whitehouse with their torches, kegs, and trucknutz.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Some people are temperamentally disinclined to allow introspection and criticism. There is much blame to go around for the current situation and neither side is exempt. It leads to explosive commentary as a defense mechanism and is completely self defeating.

Well, here's hoping that we'll have a Phoenix from the ashes.

Apparently you don't own a mirror, shall I mail you one?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Not sure what 'evades taxes' has to do with this since both candidates do it. The Clinton's have at least 3 trusts that afford them lower tax rates and all of which circumvent estate taxes. If you read her tax plan trusts receive no additional scrutiny so she has no plans to kill the golden goose she's using. Thats one of the reasons I don't like her - lots of populist talk on subjects but little meaningful action.

One thing's for sure: the "polite, bi-partisan tradition" of releasing your taxes is completely out. Trump was the combo-breaker!
 

Maverick177

Senior member
Mar 11, 2016
411
70
91
Again with Politifact, they've been colliding their heads with the Clit's since ages ago. Look into the emails stuff folks.

About Trump: He purposefully put out some of the most outrages statement, that anyone would think he's utterly evil or stupid, to gain coverage. Doesn't mean he believes in every single one of them. DJT is a popular bizman, you'd think twice before calling him stupid.I hope that he is not evil like HRC or Sanders.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
There were two options on the ballot and none of them were for bernie, I voted for Hillary you didn't. Own it.


Btw, I'm in California, there will be no suffering for me

My state voted for Hillary so it makes no difference. You supported the corporatist hawk. You lost. Be adult and admit your part in it.

Not a chance? That's why nothing changes. You are absolutely right and the other person is absolutely wrong. Neither candidate was worthy but one had to win. Perhaps you'll consider that next time instead of pushing what was never acceptable to the public since the early days.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
The Democrats do pander and they do not understand the least little bit about human nature. I suggest you consider the reverse situation. Are blacks racist when they think of themselves preferentially over whites?
As mentioned, democrats/liberals are overwhelming not racially resentful, which is why this factor is such an accurate predictor in our politics.

You may argue yes or no, but you are missing the larger issue and that is America is no longer a land of true opportunity for ANYONE other than the extreme wealthy. EVERYONE, black or white, deserves a chance and the Democrats cry "white supremacy" when it's more a matter of fearfulness for people's children. Hillary talks about her girls having privilege because they are white, disregarding that she's part of a would be dynasty and wealthy beyond most people's dream because of her corporatist links. By extension the white guy who just lost his job or had his hours cut and worries if he can keep a roof over his family's heads has been told "you are like them and be grateful for it". Then the Dems talk about how they are going to make minority lives better (and yes they deserve it) but fail to be inclusive. In fact they to the opposite route.

So Mr White Guy does fear that the small pool of vanishing good jobs will be taken away by the Left and Hillary rather than expanding opportunity for all. He does worry about race and for that he's a white supremacist racist that the Dems eschew.

If one cannot understand the larger and deeper significance of underlying causation but relies on simple questions as sufficient evidence to provide a broad stamp of "white racists" they are no better than those who claim "black crime" applies to mere inferiority of character in the inner city.

No, things aren't that simple.

Seems rather simple that people vote in their perceived self-interest, so it's not hard to see why Trump's campaign to knock minorities down a few pegs in the competing order is quite appealing. It's not as if they're unaware of the better job circumstances back in the day when there weren't the brown people trying to worm their way in, too.

I understand why you feel the need to conceal this ugly truth. After all the liberal media and educators have taught you it's shameful to think the way people did openly not too long ago.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Apparently you don't own a mirror, shall I mail you one?

Well you'd be wrong. Again. Thanks for the offer though.

I wonder when the emigration of Clinton supporters happens? Like their Republican kindred of the Obama days I doubt they will follow through.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
My state voted for Hillary so it makes no difference. You supported the corporatist hawk. You lost. Be adult and admit your part in it.

Not a chance? That's why nothing changes. You are absolutely right and the other person is absolutely wrong. Neither candidate was worthy but one had to win. Perhaps you'll consider that next time instead of pushing what was never acceptable to the public since the early days.

I'm an independent so I couldn't vote in the primaries. My choices were what was on the ballot I chose the best option you didn't. You and the other cry babies like you chose to vote for someone else or not vote for anyone. That's on you unless you want to admit right here to everyone that people like me have the power to influence your vote.

Own it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Nope! You didn't vote for her so the results are on you. You are another whiny little bitch Bernie bro who didn't get your way and threw a temper tantrum. Own it!

I hate this argument. I may be annoyed at a percentage (far greater than imagined) of Bernie supporters that refused to vote or went Trump, but only Hillary can own that and, more importantly--Trump gets tremendous credit for grabbing them.

That is on Hillary and no one else. She and the dems alone lost the most dependable voting block for the democratic party over the last ~century plus. She lost Obama's supporters, hard. There really is no other explanation. Dems have to own that and regroup or face the same political irrelevance that many assumed was coming to the republicans after this election.

The only positive that I can hope for out of Trump is that he acts as the bi-partisan enema that this country truly needs. If he can somehow be a moderate (and not let Pence do, well, anyfuckingthing) and make enough reforms to WS and political entitlements, hell--something that actually helps these people for the first time ever, it would be a welcome change. I honestly hope he can do that and I think you should hope for that as well.
 
Reactions: BoberFett

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Well you'd be wrong. Again. Thanks for the offer though.

I wonder when the emigration of Clinton supporters happens? Like their Republican kindred of the Obama days I doubt they will follow through.

As if there weren't any Bernie bros claiming they'd leave. Keep crying.

Own it.
 
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