Originally posted by: Wheezer
Well as long as we are pointing fingers I found this interesting:
"The Superdome was built in 1975 for $162 million, paid for by the state of Louisiana. In 1996, it underwent $22.8 million of renovations, including a new entrance lobby and ticket offices, an additional concourse serving the upper level seats, refurbished ballrooms, additional accommodations for the disabled, and upgraded safety and security equipment. After the 2002 season, more luxury boxes were added and the Astroturf playing field was replaced with Fieldturf. Anticipated renovations would cost $168 million.
The Saints are the only team to get a state cash payment. The state has to pay if hotel-motel tax doesn't yield $15 million in 2004-06, $20 million in 2007-08 and $23.5 million 2009-11. The state borrowed $7 million in 2003 and is anticipating another hotel tax deficit this year that will have to be covered.
The team gets free use of stadium. It is technically charged $800,000 a year rent but it is waived as part of an incentive package approved in 2002. Revenues also include sale or lease of luxury boxes ($4.5 million), a portion of concessions and merchandise ($2.37 million), parking, hotel tax, stadium advertising, stadium tours, club dues/membership fees, income tax on visiting players (a major share of $1.5 million), $1.1 million from Superdome Marketing Fund."
So can someone please explain why the state/local goverment decided it was more important to put millions into the entertainment industry rather than the saftey of the locals?
Great job, Pliablemoose!Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I just got back from helping at Reunion Arena in Dallas, it's a massive cluster fvck...
Out local county hospital is doing an awesome job of helping as well as the Dallas Fire Dept.
But I really liked that everyone goes through metal detector wanding and security in general is tight, I struggled through the "volunteer line" for 10 minutes, the guy in front of me had no business going in, a Red Cross volunteer told him 3 times "Sir you can't come in here" on the third time an armed Nat Guardsman stepped in to back her up & ran the asshole off...
<---Emergency room nurse for nearly 10 years that cranked out a 78 hour week counting my volunteer time today.
Their local evac plan is supposed to have an answer to that.Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd be willing to bet thousands of school buses that are now destroyed could have been used to evacuate those willing to leave.
I also don't give a rat's ass about who did what, whose plan said what, they (the buses) were a squandered (and now destroyed/useless) resource.
Where is a safe place that they could have bussed 200,000 people too?
Did you see the young African American man who stole a school bus and was picking up people along way out of NO. The bus was packed when he reached the Astrodome. They wouldn't let him in at first because it was not a Greyhound bus but they finally let him in. He did an outstanding job. Greta on Fox was interviewing him the other night at the Astrodome. He never drove a school bus before.Originally posted by: conjur
According to all of the Mayor/Gov bashers, the only people left were the poor minorities (who didn't have cars and, likely, no drivers' licenses) and drug addicts. Yeah, I want an untrained driver or a drug addict driving 100,000 people out of the city in a time of great stress.Originally posted by: charrison
Tell me again how many people had to leave the city? Are you telling me there would be not be enough volunteers to drive buses to help bus their less fortunate citizen out of danger?Originally posted by: conjur
And the volunteers were going to come from where? A mandatory evac had been issued.
I was thinking along those lines also. The only thing I would correct would be that the people who were able to leave should have left.Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: charrison
Yes disaster plans are just that, plans And there are some here that are willing to accept the failures of the state and local goverment, but not willing accept the failures from the fed. And not only will they not accept failures from the fed, they are very willing to pin it on just one person.
This is a point I have been trying to make for the last several days, but it appears there are many that are blinded by their partisonship.
There was failure on every level. The people that failed to leave were the first. The second was the local government not forcing people to leave. The second was also mismanagement on the local and state level. The third was a failed plan by FEMA to stage the resources necessary. The fourth was the president failing to react to the failure of the all the previous steps.
I don't vote for the the mayor of NO, nor the governor of LA. I do vote for the president, and I through him the appointment of the staff of FEMA. As such I only have say and input on the third and forth level. I'm extremely dissappointed in the response of that level, in fact the word I would actually describe how I feel is livid. I'm very very angry in the manner in which the federal government handled the situation. I'm even angrier that when faced with the apparent failure (as was apparent all over the news) our president failed to react. In fact his utlimate reaction and calling the response unacceptable did not occur until he saw the public polls. From all appearances he didn't give a rats ass until ordinary americans got mad.
It seems silly to me that someone would even suggest that because there was failures at all levels that I'm being "partisan" by being upset about the response of the only side that I have voter input in. In fact I would say that anyone suggesting such a thing is a nitwit. I do not accept the failure of FEMA. I do not accept that because the city and state failed that somehow that excuses the failure of FEMA. I do not accept that it took 5 fvcking days for the president to care (and I wouldn't care what party or who he is). From any viewpoint I cannot accept the way in which the evacuation and response to Katrina was handled.
I honestly don't know what happened here. I don't know if it was because Louisiana turned into such a clusterfvck in trying to get them to recognize the danger or what. But clearly New Orleans did not follow their own disaster plan and the the Louisiana Governor was slow in acting. I'm not sure how much all of this hindered FEMA or if FEMA hindered themselves.Originally posted by: rahvin
The third was a failed plan by FEMA to stage the resources necessary.
The President declared the entire Gulf Coast a Federal Disaster Area days before the storm hit. The President had to call the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO to get them to issue mandatory evacuation orders. There's not much more he could do. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government cannot operate troops on US soil. The exception is the National Guard who are under the control of state governors. The LA Governor was slow in activating her National Guard and she waited until Wednesday to ask for help from other states.The fourth was the president failing to react to the failure of the all the previous steps.
Originally posted by: Queasy
I honestly don't know what happened here. I don't know if it was because Louisiana turned into such a clusterfvck in trying to get them to recognize the danger or what. But clearly New Orleans did not follow their own disaster plan and the the Louisiana Governor was slow in acting. I'm not sure how much all of this hindered FEMA or if FEMA hindered themselves.Originally posted by: rahvin
The third was a failed plan by FEMA to stage the resources necessary.
The President declared the entire Gulf Coast a Federal Disaster Area days before the storm hit. The President had to call the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO to get them to issue mandatory evacuation orders. There's not much more he could do. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government cannot operate troops on US soil. The exception is the National Guard who are under the control of state governors. The LA Governor was slow in activating her National Guard and she waited until Wednesday to ask for help from other states.The fourth was the president failing to react to the failure of the all the previous steps.
Still, in all of that, massive relief made it to N.O. in approximately 72 hours of the levees breaking Tuesday morning.
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I just got back from helping at Reunion Arena in Dallas, it's a massive cluster fvck...
Out local county hospital is doing an awesome job of helping as well as the Dallas Fire Dept.
But I really liked that everyone goes through metal detector wanding and security in general is tight, I struggled through the "volunteer line" for 10 minutes, the guy in front of me had no business going in, a Red Cross volunteer told him 3 times "Sir you can't come in here" on the third time an armed Nat Guardsman stepped in to back her up & ran the asshole off...
<---Emergency room nurse for nearly 10 years that cranked out a 78 hour week counting my volunteer time today.
Originally posted by: Lanyap
I was thinking along those lines also. The only thing I would correct would be that the people who were able to leave should have left.Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: charrison
Yes disaster plans are just that, plans And there are some here that are willing to accept the failures of the state and local goverment, but not willing accept the failures from the fed. And not only will they not accept failures from the fed, they are very willing to pin it on just one person.
This is a point I have been trying to make for the last several days, but it appears there are many that are blinded by their partisonship.
There was failure on every level. The people that failed to leave were the first. The second was the local government not forcing people to leave. The second was also mismanagement on the local and state level. The third was a failed plan by FEMA to stage the resources necessary. The fourth was the president failing to react to the failure of the all the previous steps.
I don't vote for the the mayor of NO, nor the governor of LA. I do vote for the president, and I through him the appointment of the staff of FEMA. As such I only have say and input on the third and forth level. I'm extremely dissappointed in the response of that level, in fact the word I would actually describe how I feel is livid. I'm very very angry in the manner in which the federal government handled the situation. I'm even angrier that when faced with the apparent failure (as was apparent all over the news) our president failed to react. In fact his utlimate reaction and calling the response unacceptable did not occur until he saw the public polls. From all appearances he didn't give a rats ass until ordinary americans got mad.
It seems silly to me that someone would even suggest that because there was failures at all levels that I'm being "partisan" by being upset about the response of the only side that I have voter input in. In fact I would say that anyone suggesting such a thing is a nitwit. I do not accept the failure of FEMA. I do not accept that because the city and state failed that somehow that excuses the failure of FEMA. I do not accept that it took 5 fvcking days for the president to care (and I wouldn't care what party or who he is). From any viewpoint I cannot accept the way in which the evacuation and response to Katrina was handled.
President had to call the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO to get them to issue mandatory evacuation orders. There's not much more he could do. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government cannot operate troops on US soil. The exception is the National Guard who are under the control of state governors.
Originally posted by: mc6809e
President had to call the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO to get them to issue mandatory evacuation orders. There's not much more he could do. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government cannot operate troops on US soil. The exception is the National Guard who are under the control of state governors.
That George Bush had to call the Governor to ask for a mandatory evacuation should tell you something about the competence of the Governor.
If George Bush has more clue than the governor, the only conclusion is that the governor is a total idiot.
Where does it say he "had" to call her??? Your so full of hate that you can't even think straight. I'm sure Hannity will come along soon and tell you what to think though.
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.
Originally posted by: mc6809e
Where does it say he "had" to call her??? Your so full of hate that you can't even think straight. I'm sure Hannity will come along soon and tell you what to think though.
From the article here:
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.
The fact that George Bush had more clue than Governor Blaco or the Mayor, proves that they're both idiots.
George Bush probably probably saved thousands by simply calling and pushing for the evacuations.
Originally posted by: mc6809e
President had to call the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO to get them to issue mandatory evacuation orders. There's not much more he could do. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government cannot operate troops on US soil. The exception is the National Guard who are under the control of state governors.
That George Bush had to call the Governor to ask for a mandatory evacuation should tell you something about the competence of the Governor.
If George Bush has more clue than the governor, the only conclusion is that the governor is a total idiot.
It was an NBC report Sunday morning that a convoy of buses was waiting just 20 miles outside the city for TWO DAYS and would NOT be let into the city for some apparent security reason. A bus driver was interviewed and he said they were promised an armed guard on each bus but they never showed up. Wish I had a link to the video.Originally posted by: MadRat
I heard they had 500 buses lined up north of New Orleans just waiting for police escorts for each bus. The governor could not muster enough security to safely send them in. My question is why they did not send in whatever ones did have security?
Originally posted by: conjur
It was an NBC report Sunday morning that a convoy of buses was waiting just 20 miles outside the city for TWO DAYS and would NOT be let into the city for some apparent security reason. A bus driver was interviewed and he said they were promised an armed guard on each bus but they never showed up.Originally posted by: MadRat
I heard they had 500 buses lined up north of New Orleans just waiting for police escorts for each bus. The governor could not muster enough security to safely send them in. My question is why they did not send in whatever ones did have security?
And, it wasn't the Gov.'s fault. She had requested military assistance as far back as the Fri BEFORE the storm. She had been asking for Nat'l Guard and other assistance, too. The 1st Army (according to Gen. Honore) was staged and ready but didn't get authorization to mobilize from the White House until Thur.
Originally posted by: conjur
And, it wasn't the Gov.'s fault. She had requested military assistance as far back as the Fri BEFORE the storm. She had been asking for Nat'l Guard and other assistance, too. The 1st Army (according to Gen. Honore) was staged and ready but didn't get authorization to mobilize from the White House until Thur.
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: conjur
And, it wasn't the Gov.'s fault. She had requested military assistance as far back as the Fri BEFORE the storm. She had been asking for Nat'l Guard and other assistance, too. The 1st Army (according to Gen. Honore) was staged and ready but didn't get authorization to mobilize from the White House until Thur.
Ahh - and Bush had tried to send in the military the Wednesday prior, but the Gov. wouldn't let him.
Life is so easy when you don't have to worry about backing anything up.