Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
This dumb thread is still kicking?
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
More like the offical "only Republicans deserve to make enough money to live/retire on" thread.
No, more like "why do people think others should be forced by the gov't to take care of other's every 'want'" thread.
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
No, Dave, the "party" has just begun :laugh:
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
This dumb thread is still kicking?
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
More like the offical "only Republicans deserve to make enough money to live/retire on" thread.
No, more like "why do people think others should be forced by the gov't to take care of other's every 'want'" thread.
Define "want". Medical care for working people? A retirement for people who've worke ALL THEIR LIVES that doesn't make them decide between food and medicine?
Or are you trying to infering that "want" is everyone should have a big screen HDTV and free cable?
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
This dumb thread is still kicking?
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
More like the offical "only Republicans deserve to make enough money to live/retire on" thread.
No, more like "why do people think others should be forced by the gov't to take care of other's every 'want'" thread.
Define "want". Medical care for working people? A retirement for people who've worke ALL THEIR LIVES that doesn't make them decide between food and medicine?
Or are you trying to infering that "want" is everyone should have a big screen HDTV and free cable?
While I do think that there should be a safety net in place, I don't think that you should just expect to be given a retirement just for working all of your life, without doing anything yourself to make sure that you have something saved for retirement.
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
No, Dave, the "party" has just begun :laugh:
Well, if your as right as your were about the last election......
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
This dumb thread is still kicking?
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
More like the offical "only Republicans deserve to make enough money to live/retire on" thread.
No, more like "why do people think others should be forced by the gov't to take care of other's every 'want'" thread.
Define "want". Medical care for working people? A retirement for people who've worke ALL THEIR LIVES that doesn't make them decide between food and medicine?
Or are you trying to infering that "want" is everyone should have a big screen HDTV and free cable?
And clearly the Spinlesscrats have done so much since then too. *Yawn* It's amazing that the repukes could impeach Bill for something not illegal but they can't do a thing to Cheney for breaking constitutional laws. Dave you must be proud of your spinless party.Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
No, Dave, the "party" has just begun :laugh:
Well, if your as right as your were about the last election......
I didn't make any prediction for Nov 2006.
I was pleasantly surprised to see real Americans wake up however.
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And clearly the Spinlesscrats have done so much since then too. *Yawn* It's amazing that the repukes could impeach Bill for something not illegal but they can't do a thing to Cheney for breaking constitutional laws.Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
No, Dave, the "party" has just begun :laugh:
Well, if your as right as your were about the last election......
I didn't make any prediction for Nov 2006.
I was pleasantly surprised to see real Americans wake up however.
Dave you must be proud of your spinless party.
But hey Hillary should have the troops starting their way out by 2011 (You heard it here first) while she is busy taking care of provocative video games.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And clearly the Spinlesscrats have done so much since then too. *Yawn* It's amazing that the repukes could impeach Bill for something not illegal but they can't do a thing to Cheney for breaking constitutional laws.Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's the official Republicans are scared that the party is over thread. :laugh:
No, Dave, the "party" has just begun :laugh:
Well, if your as right as your were about the last election......
I didn't make any prediction for Nov 2006.
I was pleasantly surprised to see real Americans wake up however.
Dave you must be proud of your spinless party.
But hey Hillary should have the troops starting their way out by 2011 (You heard it here first) while she is busy taking care of provocative video games.
Absolutely.
They have managed to piss you guys off quite a bit considering they don't have enough votes to do sh!t.
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about. I believe you are either very young, or very ignorant.
Public schools might not educate people up to your standards, but the vast vast majority have the skills necessary to hold down a job, which was in fact the whole point of them.
Mob justice isn't justice, it's just a different form of tyrrany. Modern economies are based upon a significant amount of liquidity in capital which would be completely impossible in an anarchistic system which means that we would be faced with a catastrophic recession if we signed on to your plan.
Of course leaders are corrupt, and in some ways people are fools to believe in their benevolence. It is orders of magnitude more foolish however to believe that an every man for himself world would be better, thus trusting in the benevolence of everyone around you.
That is, for the 15 minutes or so an anarchistic system would exist before a strongman crushed everyone under his bootheel.
EDIT: I can't spell
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Dissipate,
You said you were moving. When and where?
Some form of government has existed for all of recorded history. I don't like it, but it's how humans manage to get stuff done across large groups of people. As soon as work needed to be done and it wasn't because "I don't want to do that" (which probably took 5 minutes) people went to social hierarchies with binding consequences. There may be communes out somewhere where you can evade human nature, but that's in some cave somewhere I suppose.
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Dissipate,
You said you were moving. When and where?
Some form of government has existed for all of recorded history. I don't like it, but it's how humans manage to get stuff done across large groups of people. As soon as work needed to be done and it wasn't because "I don't want to do that" (which probably took 5 minutes) people went to social hierarchies with binding consequences. There may be communes out somewhere where you can evade human nature, but that's in some cave somewhere I suppose.
I am planning on moving to Dubai of the United Arab Emirates. There is a growing tech industry there, and some fantastic building projects underway. There is no income tax there, and they have what is called an 'economic free zone,' where businesses are exempt from taxation for a number of years.
I plan on visiting there within the next couple years and I plan on moving there and fully renouncing my U.S. citizenship (a.k.a. slaveship) within 5-8 years.
An article on Dubai's growing tech industry:
Tech's next watering hole
Some pictures and some concept art of Dubai:
Text
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about. I believe you are either very young, or very ignorant.
Public schools might not educate people up to your standards, but the vast vast majority have the skills necessary to hold down a job, which was in fact the whole point of them.
You are joking, right?! My girlfriend is a teacher in a public school. She teaches pre-calculus. A large percentage of her students can not even add, subtract and divide fractions. Forget about job skills, these kids have none. Fortunately, she is quitting as soon as she can.
The public education system was actually designed to fail from the beginning. Or at least fail in the purported goal of actually educating kids. Award winning teacher John Taylor Gatto explains this.
Mob justice isn't justice, it's just a different form of tyrrany. Modern economies are based upon a significant amount of liquidity in capital which would be completely impossible in an anarchistic system which means that we would be faced with a catastrophic recession if we signed on to your plan.
There is a market for justice just like anything else. There isn't any reason why it would be run by 'mobs,' any more than your supermarket is run by 'mobs.' The huge difference though is that people would no longer be forced to live with criminals.
Of course leaders are corrupt, and in some ways people are fools to believe in their benevolence. It is orders of magnitude more foolish however to believe that an every man for himself world would be better, thus trusting in the benevolence of everyone around you.
There has never been a society that was 'every many for himself.' As I pointed out before, in the near anarcho-capitalist conditions of what is called the 'wild' west, people were able to start businesses and raise their families.
That is, for the 15 minutes or so an anarchistic system would exist before a strongman crushed everyone under his bootheel.
EDIT: I can't spell
Where were these strong men from 1776 to 1900?
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Whee I can use anecdotal evidence too. My mom is an english teacher in what was at one point the lowest ranked school in Pennsylvania. Her students can add and subtract. The thing is that I would never try to base an argument on such evidence, because that would be stupid. I visited John Taylor Gatto's website... and it's hilarious. He's bordering on Alex Chiu type stuff there. His little advertisement for his way of thinking is riddled with factual inaccuracies. School dangerous? Statistically it's one of the safest places a kid can be. His point against the SAT's because Bush had low scores and still became President? Oh wait, he has no point because he's using isolated examples to attempt to disprove larger trends.
Sure people were able to start businesses and raise families in the old west, but that took place in an economic system very very different then the one we are in now. If you read up on this subject at all it will become abundantly clear to you why. In addition the historical record of the old west shows an incredibly corrupt justice system and several large scale conflicts between strongmen and powerful groups trying to set up control over areas. In fact, the US army was required several times to control these sorts of men. So... that's where the strongmen were. Hell, Buchannan had to send over 2,000 troops into Utah just to fight the Mormons.
Your idea that we wouldn't be forced to live with criminals with some sort of capitalistic justice system is incredibly naive. When you say things like this it makes me believe that you are very young. I admire your passion, but your posts just give the impression of someone who hasn't thought this through very much.
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Whee I can use anecdotal evidence too. My mom is an english teacher in what was at one point the lowest ranked school in Pennsylvania. Her students can add and subtract. The thing is that I would never try to base an argument on such evidence, because that would be stupid. I visited John Taylor Gatto's website... and it's hilarious. He's bordering on Alex Chiu type stuff there. His little advertisement for his way of thinking is riddled with factual inaccuracies. School dangerous? Statistically it's one of the safest places a kid can be. His point against the SAT's because Bush had low scores and still became President? Oh wait, he has no point because he's using isolated examples to attempt to disprove larger trends.
He has a book, but I guess you aren't interested in those. Public schools are a joke, statistically speaking, anecdotally speaking, and pretty much any other way you want to cut it up. This is common knowledge and anyone who denies it is living in a fantasy land.
Sure people were able to start businesses and raise families in the old west, but that took place in an economic system very very different then the one we are in now. If you read up on this subject at all it will become abundantly clear to you why. In addition the historical record of the old west shows an incredibly corrupt justice system and several large scale conflicts between strongmen and powerful groups trying to set up control over areas. In fact, the US army was required several times to control these sorts of men. So... that's where the strongmen were. Hell, Buchannan had to send over 2,000 troops into Utah just to fight the Mormons.
Those strongmen were often working with the government itself. The government corruption was so bad in San Francisco that a Committee of Vigilance was formed to rein it in.
Your idea that we wouldn't be forced to live with criminals with some sort of capitalistic justice system is incredibly naive. When you say things like this it makes me believe that you are very young. I admire your passion, but your posts just give the impression of someone who hasn't thought this through very much.
What is there to think through when everywhere I turn I see nothing but failures of the state? Furthermore, what is there to think through when the state is taking so much of my money that it will take me many more years to own a home or pay off my current student loans, let alone even think about having kids? What is there to think through when the state is forcing me to fund murder, torture and detainment of innocent civilians in a number of countries around the world?
You and I both know the state is committing atrocities here and abroad. The big difference between you and I though is that I reject evil 100%. You don't reject evil because you think that this evil thing can somehow protect you from other people and force them to live the way you want them to. Evil to fight 'evil.'
While the state is doing all of this, you are afraid of 'capitalist' justice and 'strong men?' The only strong men I have been seen going around are either gang members or people from alphabet agencies like the IRS, the DOD or the FBI. However, in actuality the gang members are an outgrowth of the state because the state allows them to subsist and grow off of civilized society because it will not allow them to be exiled from civilized society. They can go wherever they want and pretty much do whatever they want unless they get caught. And even if they are caught, they can easily get parole and are almost 100% guaranteed to commit another crime.
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They have managed to piss you guys off quite a bit considering they don't have enough votes to do sh!t.
They dont piss me off...they crack me up lol I laugh every time I hear about what else they havent done. It's not that they dont have the votes to do sh1t, they dont have the intelligence or the spine to do it lol. It's like a room full of monkeys
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They have managed to piss you guys off quite a bit considering they don't have enough votes to do sh!t.
They dont piss me off...they crack me up lol I laugh every time I hear about what else they havent done. It's not that they dont have the votes to do sh1t, they dont have the intelligence or the spine to do it lol. It's like a room full of monkeys
Are you disputing that they don't have enough votes to do sh!t?
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Whee I can use anecdotal evidence too. My mom is an english teacher in what was at one point the lowest ranked school in Pennsylvania. Her students can add and subtract. The thing is that I would never try to base an argument on such evidence, because that would be stupid. I visited John Taylor Gatto's website... and it's hilarious. He's bordering on Alex Chiu type stuff there. His little advertisement for his way of thinking is riddled with factual inaccuracies. School dangerous? Statistically it's one of the safest places a kid can be. His point against the SAT's because Bush had low scores and still became President? Oh wait, he has no point because he's using isolated examples to attempt to disprove larger trends.
He has a book, but I guess you aren't interested in those. Public schools are a joke, statistically speaking, anecdotally speaking, and pretty much any other way you want to cut it up. This is common knowledge and anyone who denies it is living in a fantasy land.
Sure people were able to start businesses and raise families in the old west, but that took place in an economic system very very different then the one we are in now. If you read up on this subject at all it will become abundantly clear to you why. In addition the historical record of the old west shows an incredibly corrupt justice system and several large scale conflicts between strongmen and powerful groups trying to set up control over areas. In fact, the US army was required several times to control these sorts of men. So... that's where the strongmen were. Hell, Buchannan had to send over 2,000 troops into Utah just to fight the Mormons.
Those strongmen were often working with the government itself. The government corruption was so bad in San Francisco that a Committee of Vigilance was formed to rein it in.
Your idea that we wouldn't be forced to live with criminals with some sort of capitalistic justice system is incredibly naive. When you say things like this it makes me believe that you are very young. I admire your passion, but your posts just give the impression of someone who hasn't thought this through very much.
What is there to think through when everywhere I turn I see nothing but failures of the state? Furthermore, what is there to think through when the state is taking so much of my money that it will take me many more years to own a home or pay off my current student loans, let alone even think about having kids? What is there to think through when the state is forcing me to fund murder, torture and detainment of innocent civilians in a number of countries around the world?
You and I both know the state is committing atrocities here and abroad. The big difference between you and I though is that I reject evil 100%. You don't reject evil because you think that this evil thing can somehow protect you from other people and force them to live the way you want them to. Evil to fight 'evil.'
While the state is doing all of this, you are afraid of 'capitalist' justice and 'strong men?' The only strong men I have been seen going around are either gang members or people from alphabet agencies like the IRS, the DOD or the FBI. However, in actuality the gang members are an outgrowth of the state because the state allows them to subsist and grow off of civilized society because it will not allow them to be exiled from civilized society. They can go wherever they want and pretty much do whatever they want unless they get caught. And even if they are caught, they can easily get parole and are almost 100% guaranteed to commit another crime.
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They have managed to piss you guys off quite a bit considering they don't have enough votes to do sh!t.
They dont piss me off...they crack me up lol I laugh every time I hear about what else they havent done. It's not that they dont have the votes to do sh1t, they dont have the intelligence or the spine to do it lol. It's like a room full of monkeys
Are you disputing that they don't have enough votes to do sh!t?
It doesnt take a 2/3 majority to pass a bill. They havent passed ANYTHING substantial.
They havent done sh1t. It's funny
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They have managed to piss you guys off quite a bit considering they don't have enough votes to do sh!t.
They dont piss me off...they crack me up lol I laugh every time I hear about what else they havent done. It's not that they dont have the votes to do sh1t, they dont have the intelligence or the spine to do it lol. It's like a room full of monkeys
Are you disputing that they don't have enough votes to do sh!t?
It doesnt take a 2/3 majority to pass a bill. They havent passed ANYTHING substantial.
They havent done sh1t. It's funny
Not as funny as Republicans running on the platform "Vote for us because we blocked the Democrats from passing those laws you supported. Look, we even blocked healthcare for poor children"
Originally posted by: senseamp
The state subsidizes college education, and tax advantages buying a house, paying student loans, and having kids. And it keeps these gang members in prisons.
This utopia you are dreaming of does not exist, and never will. It's been a complete nightmare in every state where it's been tried, and only brought in popular uprisings, or elections that resulted in much much more socialist stronger states.
Look at the US in the 30s, Cuba in the 50s, Venezuela now, Russia in the 1990s, I can go on. Weak capitalistic state is usually unsustainable, and almost inevitably brings stronger more socialistic state then you would have if you never went to weak capitalist state to begin with. In the real world, you have to balance what is economically advantageous with what is politically sustainable. US and Western Europe have struck the best balances in that regard.
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You don't reject evil 100%, you just think you do because you don't realize the implications of your daily actions. You said you wanted to pack up and move away because of how evil things are here, well then you're just allowing evil to flourish instead of trying to stop it. It's also evil to stand idly by and allow things you think are so wrong to continue.
You have obviously mistaken a pragmatic and realistic assessment of the pros and cons of our current system of government as something very different then it is.
This is not possible to argue with you, because all you have is vague ideology, anecdotal evidence, and suspect 'facts'. I know that you're not going to change your mind, because honestly all I could provide you with would be facts that I think dispute your assertions... and I sincerely doubt that your opinion was reached by judicious study anyway so it would be pointless. This is the sort of conversation you would have your sophmore year of college at 2 in the morning... and I'm neither 20 nor high enough to have it.
Originally posted by: senseamp
You aren't seriously using UAE as your example? The only reason they are able to do it with low taxes is their oil revenue. They are simply taxing energy consumers in other states instead of their population. Look around your house. See anything made in or designed in UAE? Didn't think so. Show me a state that is not running huge natural resource trade surpluses where your utopian model is working.
Revenues from petroleum and natural gas contribute less than 6% (2006)[6] of Dubai's US$ 37 billion economy (2005).[7] A majority of the emirate's revenues are from the Jebel Ali free zone authority (JAFZA)[8] and, increasingly, from tourism and other service businesses. As of 2007, 800 new residents were setting up home in Dubai every day.[9]