So... why shouldn't houses of worship pay taxes?

[actuarial]

If you tax non profits like any other business they would either have zero to pay in taxes or they would only be paying taxes on whatever savings they have.

What's the problem?

If by taxing savings you mean investment earnings on assets then sure, but otherwise what you're doing is taking taxes in surplus years without the expectation of getting that back in deficit years.

Example (at 20% tax rates, mega simplified):
Year 1: Revenue: $20; Expenses: $10; Tax: $2
Year 2: Revenue: $10; Expenses: $20; Tax: $0

This organization, over two years, has made no money yet has paid taxes. The theory behind not for profits makes sense and should apply to religions.

Where I disagree with current law is the exemption from property taxes, which doesn't follow the same theory, and also tax deduction for donations.

The portion of religious donations that go to legitimate charitable activities should be deductible, but otherwise I see no reason why donations to run weekly prayer gatherings should be deductible but dues for any other social club is not.

 

[bshole]

I am very much against taxing churches. There is a separation between church and state and taxes break that separation. The moment taxes get added, the camel has put in his nose under the tent and religious freedom is on its way out the door.

With that being the said, IF the church decides to involve itself in matters of state, then my support against taxation becomes much less firm. Islam is the extreme example of religion involving itself in matters of state. Fundamentalist Christianity seems to involve itself in matters of state entirely too much for my comfort (although nowhere nearly as onerously as Islam).

 

[Zebo]

another point to consider for those against tax exemption is churches cant take advantage of govt largesse/grants of descression handed out all over the place by our bought and sold congress.

Do you really want your tax dollars funneled into religious institutions through grants, low interest government loans, and other pork the politicain managed to slip into immigration bill? Is CBN too big to fail?

be careful what you ask for

finally what happens if they are "short" this year - do you shut church down? How does that jell with the free exercise clause.

There is just to many complications taxing them

 

[pcgeek11]

Gun ownership is a right but you tax gun shops.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Tsavo]

Tax em at 99% and weed out the fake believers.

 

[piasabird]

Seperation of Church and State!!!!! The Church should stay out of the government, and the Government should stay out of the Church. This is an age old problem. When churches that are supported by donations have to pay taxes then that church has a right to say how things are run. Is that what you want?

What about all the other charities and organizations that receive donations like the Red Cross, the United Way, the AFLCIO, CARE, Peace Corpse, what about all of those? Tax them first. Tax political donations. Tax Plotical non profits. Tax public Schools and hospitals. Tax Fannie and Freddie.

 

[piasabird]

A church is not suppose to be a business. For instance in the Mormon LDS church, preachers are not paid at all. We consider this priestcraft. A church is the property of the community of parishoners who donate funds to keep it going. Only officials at the top get paid if they work nonstop for the church. In turn they are not allowed to own any businesses ulness they are placed in a blind trust that they can not interfere with. This is so they can dedicate their lives to churchwork alone like a missionary.

 

[silverpig]

Seperation of Church and State!!!!! The Church should stay out of the government, and the Government should stay out of the Church. This is an age old problem. When churches that are supported by donations have to pay taxes then that church has a right to say how things are run. Is that what you want?

What about all the other charities and organizations that receive donations like the Red Cross, the United Way, the AFLCIO, CARE, Peace Corpse, what about all of those? Tax them first. Tax political donations. Tax Plotical non profits. Tax public Schools and hospitals. Tax Fannie and Freddie.

The difference is churches are really more of a pay for service than a donation model.

With the United Way, the people who donate aren't the people who receive the services of the United Way. Same with the Red Cross (mostly), and many other charities. You donate, others benefit.

With a church, you "donate" to your church and in return you get membership to the church, certain services, counselling, etc. You "donate", you benefit.

You could tax schools but they have no taxable income. They get funded, spend their entire budgets, and that's that. Zero net income = zero tax.

 

[ivwshane]

another point to consider for those against tax exemption is churches cant take advantage of govt largesse/grants of descression handed out all over the place by our bought and sold congress.

Do you really want your tax dollars funneled into religious institutions through grants, low interest government loans, and other pork the politicain managed to slip into immigration bill? Is CBN too big to fail?

be careful what you ask for

finally what happens if they are "short" this year - do you shut church down? How does that jell with the free exercise clause.

There is just to many complications taxing them

It already happens. Do you think the creationism museum was funded purely by the church? Nope government helped pay for it through another loophole,

 

[piasabird]

One premise is that if you are taxed or a church is taxed then you and the church have a say in how the government is run. This violated separation of church and state.

My church and other churches also give funds to people that are down on their luck or help people in the community or go to the aid of international needs for humanitarian aid for things like floods, hurricanes, Famine, Water, Food, medicine, etc. In fact churches often are able to step in and help people in a crisis a lot more efficiently and faster than any government agency.

One example is the churches that donate to christian charity give money to other agencies like the Red Cross and the Red Cross distributes that to poorer Americans. They do this because some people feel uncomfortable going to a church.

 

[piasabird]

Keep in mind that christians are citizens and they pay taxes so they are entitled to receive things from the government like everyone else. So if the government can support things like civic centers then they can support activities in a church that help the community also. All citizens including church members pay the same taxes.

 

[Darwin333]

People willingly contribute to churches or mosques. No asked me if I wanted to pay for welfare regardless of merit. Your opinion of God is irrelevant. Taxation of property would destroy many places of worship, fine by many perhaps, but in effect it kills Constitution protection. Want to tax someone? Politics has far more influence on government. Tax political contributions at 100%. Then we can get rid of the crap in DC and have a pound of flesh too.

Exactly why should places of worship, often occupying very valuable and large swaths of property, be excluded from property taxes? Keep in mind that property taxes generally go to things like local schools and such, why wouldn't a local church want to do what every one of their congregation is forced to do in order to support those local schools etc...

And honestly, their business model isn't my concern. If the property taxes are to high I am sure cheaper land can be found or the congregation benefiting from said property can pony up more. Why do the rest of us have to give them a free ride? Hell, why do they deserve a free ride?

 

[Darwin333]

Because their income is from charity derp. Its like taxing charity money. Its like taxing the red cross humanitarian aid or taxing your blood donations. Its dumb man. Their income is charity.

Then they should have no issue paying property taxes with said charitable money.

Isn't the Catholic church the 2nd largest land owner in the US behind the United States Government itself?

 

[Darwin333]

Atheists have gone full retard it was inevitable. Religion isn't a business sorry. Yea the lucrative profession of becoming a priest and taking a vow of poverty yeah. Good job tardo.

I guess next we'll tax hospitals.

Not quite sure if you realize this but not all religions, including a huge number of churches right here in the US, require the priest/pastor to take a vow of poverty. Go check out some of the insane mega-baptist churches and take a loot at what the preacher is driving.

 

[Darwin333]

another point to consider for those against tax exemption is churches cant take advantage of govt largesse/grants of descression handed out all over the place by our bought and sold congress.

Do you really want your tax dollars funneled into religious institutions through grants, low interest government loans, and other pork the politicain managed to slip into immigration bill? Is CBN too big to fail?

be careful what you ask for

finally what happens if they are "short" this year - do you shut church down? How does that jell with the free exercise clause.

There is just to many complications taxing them

Why can't I open my own church/business and get tax exempt status? Hell, just a nice ass house that I hold "prayer" service at a few times a week that gets rid of the property taxes would rock ice.

Instead we have the government saying which churches qualify (therefore picking winners and losers in religion), yet that is better?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Exactly why should places of worship, often occupying very valuable and large swaths of property, be excluded from property taxes? Keep in mind that property taxes generally go to things like local schools and such, why wouldn't a local church want to do what every one of their congregation is forced to do in order to support those local schools etc...

And honestly, their business model isn't my concern. If the property taxes are to high I am sure cheaper land can be found or the congregation benefiting from said property can pony up more. Why do the rest of us have to give them a free ride? Hell, why do they deserve a free ride?

It isn't a business model. You might want it to be but it isn't. Hell why don't we bring back the poll tax. If you hate the system call for a Constitutional convention.

 

[Munky]

Are you surprised that someone who doesn't believe in a supervising entity sees the trillions poured into worshiping it as mental masturbation at best and a scam at worst? Why would either deserve not to be taxed despite how much the institution may give to charity? Besides, you see religions x, y, and z that you don't believe in the exact same way. I just see one more religion in that light than you do.

You mean some leftoid atheist sees all that money being charitably "wasted" and is offended that it can't be used in a matter he deems more appropriate.

 

[child of wonder]

A church is not suppose to be a business. For instance in the Mormon LDS church, preachers are not paid at all. We consider this priestcraft. A church is the property of the community of parishoners who donate funds to keep it going. Only officials at the top get paid if they work nonstop for the church. In turn they are not allowed to own any businesses ulness they are placed in a blind trust that they can not interfere with. This is so they can dedicate their lives to churchwork alone like a missionary.

Oh don't even get me started on the Mormons.

 

[Zebo]

Why can't I open my own church/business and get tax exempt status? Hell, just a nice ass house that I hold "prayer" service at a few times a week that gets rid of the property taxes would rock ice.

Instead we have the government saying which churches qualify (therefore picking winners and losers in religion), yet that is better?

You could but they also scrutinize legitimacy and could go to jail for fraud/evasion if deemed such as many have. IRS is not stupid.


We pick winners and losers all the time. Tax code is drastically unfair more you got more you pay. Depending on type of income you pay different. Different depreciation schedules for different assets and industries. etc etc etc it's more a social engineering revenue raising than fair. Fair would be a flat tax regardless of source and even then you still have sticky issues of deductions and depreciation.

Bottom line religious institutions are deemed to do good for society so they get favorable tax status.

 

[her209]

another point to consider for those against tax exemption is churches cant take advantage of govt largesse/grants of descression handed out all over the place by our bought and sold congress.

Do you really want your tax dollars funneled into religious institutions through grants, low interest government loans, and other pork the politicain managed to slip into immigration bill? Is CBN too big to fail?

This isn't true.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pres...tiative-church/story?id=12180146#.UdBM0critG0

 

[soundforbjt]

It isn't a business model. You might want it to be but it isn't. Hell why don't we bring back the poll tax. If you hate the system call for a Constitutional convention.

Alot of states are trying/doing this, calling it voter ID instead of poll tax, same results.

 

[TerryMathews]

Alot of states are trying/doing this, calling it voter ID instead of poll tax, same results.

Exactly how is requiring id to vote a poll tax?

 

[nehalem256]

Alot of states are trying/doing this, calling it voter ID instead of poll tax, same results.

You mean except for the part about them giving out the voter ID for free?

If a person has to drive the polling place is the gas tax a "poll tax"?

Where I disagree with current law is the exemption from property taxes, which doesn't follow the same theory, and also tax deduction for donations.

I agree with this. All non-profits including churches should pay property taxes.

If it is too difficult to determine what the property value of a church a reasonable way would be to assume the property tax of a vacant lot (assuming that the church is essentially valueless for any other purpose).

 

[Ice_Dragon]

Surprised to see this topic spread like wildfire. I appreciate all the responses.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Alot of states are trying/doing this, calling it voter ID instead of poll tax, same results.

I checked into the Texas voter ID. It's free, so there is no equivalence. It's been said you can't tax a right but that's not true. So if the government is going to cross the Constitutional line as some want let's charge a poll tax for local schools and see what support that gets.