most churches have a hard time paying their light bills and taxing them, even property would kill them. Thats probably peoples intention who advocate such taxes. Lucky for them they have separation of church and state so are safe so far (as long as they dont advocate and lose exemption). Even if they managed to get some federal judge to say its okay good luck convincing people to vote for it who think religious institutions are one of the only places that continues to care for the poor and do a lot of other good. Bottom line you got a long road ahead to change this.
Funny thing is taxes wouldnt even harm the ones cited in this thread as problematic. Catholic church is RICH so are the TV evangelists flying around in 747s and driving bentleys (all deductible expenses anyway if they were taxed). Its the small honest churches you'd kill.
religion isnt a club. again what do you do if they are short this year? shut them down? hows that jell with free exercise of religion. it's doesnt thats why they are exempt
and thats a misnomer anyway. any staff pays same taxes on salary as any other worker. only things they are exempt from are things that could shut them down for failure to pay. property/retained earnings
when you make a poll tax of $10,000 I might agree with taxing churches. Until then is a right not subject to tax.
So... why shouldn't houses of worship pay taxes?
Hopefully the people who are like "yea tax da churches derp derp" understand now.As regards income taxes they don't pay it because it makes no sense. They are not in a "trade or business" and by law no individual is allowed to receive any benefit (e.g., money, property etc.).
If a church, or any other exempt org for that matter, does engage in a trade or business activity they must pay income tax on those profits. E.g., some chamber of commerce orgs will make their conference rooms available to (business) members and serve coffee and refreshments etc. The CoC charges for this and must report it on their tax return and pay income taxes on it. This is because providing conference rooms and coffee and charging for it is a trade or business (hotels and restaurants normally do it).
All we have with a church is members of a community pooling their (already taxed) money for some community (non profit) purpose. There is no (academic) theory that provides a basis to classify this activity subject to income taxation. There is no "income" by any definition under the law. People do the same thing all the time, and for the same reason it is nontaxable. E.g., a HOA where everyone kicks-in to build sidewalks or a park and social type clubs. Heck, a group of employees or friends kicking-in for a party etc is exempt for the same reason.
There is also no tax benefit to the church itself. To the extent there is a tax benefit, it is to people who get to deduct their contributions. But that is a different matter than the church itself being tax exempt.
Fern
As regards income taxes they don't pay it because it makes no sense. They are not in a "trade or business" and by law no individual is allowed to receive any benefit (e.g., money, property etc.).
If a church, or any other exempt org for that matter, does engage in a trade or business activity they must pay income tax on those profits. E.g., some chamber of commerce orgs will make their conference rooms available to (business) members and serve coffee and refreshments etc. The CoC charges for this and must report it on their tax return and pay income taxes on it. This is because providing conference rooms and coffee and charging for it is a trade or business (hotels and restaurants normally do it).
All we have with a church is members of a community pooling their (already taxed) money for some community (non profit) purpose. There is no (academic) theory that provides a basis to classify this activity subject to income taxation. There is no "income" by any definition under the law. People do the same thing all the time, and for the same reason it is nontaxable. E.g., a HOA where everyone kicks-in to build sidewalks or a park and social type clubs. Heck, a group of employees or friends kicking-in for a party etc is exempt for the same reason.
There is also no tax benefit to the church itself. To the extent there is a tax benefit, it is to people who get to deduct their contributions. But that is a different matter than the church itself being tax exempt.
Fern
Which is the point of not giving special tax deductions to donors based on faith alone nor giving special property tax breaks to to organizations based on faith alone.Why does the government need to know about the beliefs and practices of a church? You are innocent until proven guilty. I believe in separation of the Government from the church, but not separation of the church from the government. The government shall pass no laws to restrict the freedom of a man to believe how he wants.
How about freedom from government intrusion!
Right, and what does all this good work have to do with getting a faith-based break on property taxes for your club house (church/temple/mosque/synagogue/meeting/whatever building) or your donors getting a special faith-based tax deduction for donations used to pay for the club house? The issue isn't whether or not religious organizations perform good works. The issue is the special faith-based treatment they receive under the tax code. So far in this thread, the folks defending faith-based preferential treatment have been dodging this issue.Churches are often taking up the slack for the government. We give people money for car repairs and food drops, and pay people's rent when they ask for assistance so most churches are welfare agencies and working for the welfare of our individual communities. We also send money to places like christian charities which gets funnelled through the red cross. On top of that we often do community projects like Bucket Brigade or helping out at a homeless shelter or wherever the need is. Other people like myself also give charity to United Way or Misc aid societies. Americans on the Whole often give a lot of their own money to help society. If you are not doing this, then maybe that is something you can consider to help your fellow man.
Right, and what does all this good work have to do with getting a faith-based break on property taxes for your club house (church/temple/mosque/synagogue/meeting/whatever building) or your donors getting a special faith-based tax deduction for donations used to pay for the club house? The issue isn't whether or not religious organizations perform good works. The issue is the special faith-based treatment they receive under the tax code. So far in this thread, the folks defending faith-based preferential treatment have been dodging this issue.
Right, and what does all this good work have to do with getting a faith-based break on property taxes for your club house (church/temple/mosque/synagogue/meeting/whatever building) or your donors getting a special faith-based tax deduction for donations used to pay for the club house? The issue isn't whether or not religious organizations perform good works. The issue is the special faith-based treatment they receive under the tax code. So far in this thread, the folks defending faith-based preferential treatment have been dodging this issue.
Right, and what does all this good work have to do with getting a faith-based break on property taxes for your club house (church/temple/mosque/synagogue/meeting/whatever building)...
or your donors getting a special faith-based tax deduction for donations used to pay for the club house? The issue isn't whether or not religious organizations perform good works. The issue is the special faith-based treatment they receive under the tax code. So far in this thread, the folks defending faith-based preferential treatment have been dodging this issue.
Couldn't agree more. Churches and religious institutions are no different than any other business.
They advertise to attract new customers, they offer products (place to worship, higher odds of getting to heaven, spiritual uplifting, daycare services during service, etc.), and ask for money in exchange for these services. The extra money, or profit, they obtain is used to expand the business.
However, since all taxes levied on businesses are simply passed on to the consumer, the next question is "should any business be taxed at all?"
Not really. That is a model for the handful of megachurches that exist in this country. I'd say something like 95% or more of the actual churches or religious communities are quite small and have no goal or ability to "expand their business"
Much of the church mission is to foster local charity work--soup kitchens, house repair for the sick and elderly, homeless and foster care, even foreign aid, etc. Day care, sure, for members--and recall that tithing isn't exactly required, though they do have financial and gifts officers that will request donations annually.
This is something that the church tends to do quite well, and, I believe, lends legitimacy to their non-tax status. They certainly put back into the community more effectively than just about any other local org.
Not really. That is a model for the handful of megachurches that exist in this country. I'd say something like 95% or more of the actual churches or religious communities are quite small and have no goal or ability to "expand their business"
Much of the church mission is to foster local charity work--soup kitchens, house repair for the sick and elderly, homeless and foster care, even foreign aid, etc. Day care, sure, for members--and recall that tithing isn't exactly required, though they do have financial and gifts officers that will request donations annually.
This is something that the church tends to do quite well, and, I believe, lends legitimacy to their non-tax status. They certainly put back into the community more effectively than just about any other local org.