So you liked Killbat's ponderings? =)

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0
Let me know what you think

And before you ask me, yes, I did have some time to waste


Thoughts

It's there. A presence, so close and yet so far away. It's like staring at something you would very much like to possess, but the window between you and the object is of bullet-proof glass.
Sure, one day you might realize that the object can be reached by walking around the glass, but until you realize how to do that, you'll keep smashing your head against the glass, resulting in mere frustration. And a major headache.
You can feel it, sense it, but you'll have to climb the mountain first. Unfortunately there's a rather large canyon between your position and the road towards the summit. So you sit down and look for something to cross the canyon. Realizing that with only some rocks and dry grass you won't be able to construct anything useful, you continue pondering.
Then it suddenly occurs to you that there is no canyon. Using this insight you comprehend that you will be able to reach the other side. Preparing to cross the canyon, you see other people looking at you like you've gone crazy, insane, lost your mind, fed your brain to your dog. Smiling confidently, you take the first steps towards the edge. Closing your eyes for a second, you step over the edge. Not experiencing the symptoms usually linked to falling into a canyon, you slowly open your eyes. With your confidence reaching new heights, you take some more steps, while joyfully registering that you still aren't falling.
The yells of women and seeing from the corner of your eye some figures clearly faint and fall on the ground, you suddenly start doubting whether they are right and you have indeed gone crazy. Losing your confidence, you glance beneath you. The sight of many meters of air between you and the ground causes a curious sensation in your stomach, like something is sinking. Not only that, you notice that you are sinking too, notwithstanding at a somewhat greater pace.
With the hard ground nearing your fragile body at a rather unnerving speed, you decide that you weren't crazy after all. This proves to be sufficient to prevent your body from hitting the ground and making a nice imprint in the soil.
Relieved to have survived, you decide to try it again. After you've kicked the other people off the edge, of course. A wise man always eliminates as many variables as possible.

Imagination is a curious thing. With a certain feeling as a starting point, one can construct whole worlds in a matter of seconds, think up stories filled with whatever you want. And no one else will give a damn.
A more fruitful use of your imagination would be to solve problems which trouble yourself, others. Naturally, you won't solve the problems of others until you've solved your own problems first. They'll understand.
Imagination, when linked to a sane mind and the right information, sometimes results in inventions. Usually the mind doesn't prove to be as sane as thought previously, or simply lacks motivation, which is another curious thing, worthy of some thought, which, too, is worthy of some pondering.
Where was I? Ah yes, motivation. Motivation, existing out of one or more motives, where a motive is a factor inducing a person to act in a certain manner, is inevitable. Even when you decide to do nothing at all and ignore any motives which might make you want to do something, you are still following a motive.

Nothing is quite as satisfying and depressing at the same time as uncovering yet another futility. One might think that existance is filled with futilities, a thought which is in a sense correct, but that's not what we were going at. I'll have to retrace my thoughts once more to find out what direction we were following.
A direction in a text? Yes, that's another silly thing: we Humans seemingly enjoy using terms which are related to objects and experiences in our three-dimensional universe, which might also exist out of eleven or twenty-six dimensions, but I'm getting even more off-topic here. So, Humans take these terms and use them in some weird abstract form. A most peculiar kind of behaviour, if you ask me.

Anyway, let's continue the original subject. We were talking about thoughts, weren't we? Alright.

Ah yes, thoughts. First of all realizing that we are talking about thoughts not in the sense of getting an idea, but the thinking process itself, we are ready to take a closer look at something which is so fascinating, yet so poorly understood.
I doubt anyone can give an accurate and detailed description of how thoughts actually 'work'. Well, unless you ask one of 'em religious fellows. It's convenient to base your theories on absence of evidence, since that means that with less clear subjects, the theories you develop can not be disproven. Admitted, they can't be proven either, but that's beside the point. That's the whole point of superstition, after all.
But I'm losing direction again.

Without a clear, or even a 'foggy' understanding of how one 'thinks', it might become obvious that with this general lack of understanding on one subject, we know almost nothing about this collection of cells we call the 'brain'. Sure, we do have a general idea of how these cells function, due to data gathered through biochemistry, neuroscience and similar areas of research, but how we think, how such a biological neural network functions, we don't know.
We try to understand, no confusion about that, but let's be clear, all attempts so far have been pitiful at best. If nature were a sentient being, it would start rolling over the floor with laughter at the mere sight of our creations. It's like a second-grade kid showing his water-colours painting to a professional and exceptionally talented painter of extremely realistic paintings.

We are our thoughts. Those neurons which are now active in your frontal lobe form a large part of your personality. Persons who lost their frontal lobe changed completely. Even so for various other parts of the brain.
All of the activity in our brain influences the way we act, react and reason. In each brain, different parts with their own function can be discerned, much like the body works; several different groups of cells, forming a certain type of tissue, being a group of neurons arranged in a certain manner in the case of the brain. These parts all interact with each other, forming one of the most powerful data-processing systems we can imagine. I said data-processing, not data-storage, because although a brain has a nearly infinite capacity to store data, its retrieval features are terrible, not to mention the fast-paced decay of memories you didn't find worthy of remembering, or simply couldn't 'learn', another worthy subject.
A biological neural network learns by changing the structure of the actin filaments in the neuron, which will then temporarily reinforce the synapse, or form a new synapse. Whether someone 'learns' something is bound to strict rules. Before you can 'learn' a certain piece of information, certain groups of neurons are to become active in the right order, this is why distraction kills one's ability to learn. Now you know why you ruined your last test, don't you? Turn off the television, radio and whatever source of noise which might distract you before starting to cram the stuff they want to learn you at school into your hippocampus.
Note, however, that it is recommended to only knock the neighbour's kid unconscious instead of lethally injuring the little brat.

Now, don't you feel much smarter now that you've learned all this stuff? It must have raised your IQ a couple of points at least.
It's nonsense, of course. No methode to effectively test the 'intelligence' of a neural network has yet seen the daylight. Yes, that's correct, the intelligence of a neural network, because that's all each of us is.
Not that it's a bad thing, it just feels kind of funny.

So how does this all fit in with this 'presence' from the beginning of this rather long-winded text? It's quite obvious if you think about it (don't you ever get tired of bad puns, even if they are unintentional?), as long as we don't understand what exactly it is we are doing ('thinking'), we won't be able to understand that of which we can sense the presence, since we don't possess the required knowledge.

Yet even if we do understand it, and learn everything there is to know, will it matter? Even when we've acquired complete knowledge of everything which exists, there will one thing become very clear. It has got its own name: Sunyata. Albeit existance is without reason, it isn't empty.

And thus we have reached the boundary which language imposes on us. Language depends on either side possessing similar knowledge and having experienced similar experiences. You can not make clear to someone who has never felt grief how it feels. If comparisons with known situations fail, an individual can not comprehend what the other person means, what a certain word or sentence means.

The only possible way to bypass language is to link neural network with neural network, thoughts with thoughts. Yet without a proper understanding of 'thinking', this solution will remain an illusion.
I can only hope that one day, sometime, Humankind will transcend the limits of language as we know it.

It's good to have dreams.
 

ThaGrandCow

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
7,956
2
0
Wow... so many words.
It was pretty good, but I was only able to read half of it before I Was distracted.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< Wow... so many words.
It was pretty good, but I was only able to read half of it before I Was distracted.
>>


I know what you mean. I did not try to reach a certain number of words, but just let my thoughts 'flow' into the text.

It's also worthy to know that I read a bit faster than the average person, so I can read the whole text within a couple of minutes
 

Pundit

Senior member
Feb 28, 2002
634
0
0
AHA! So he is suggesting we all become assimilated by the Borg. I love it

But really, the whole "language is not sufficient" argument doesn't hold water.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< AHA! So he is suggesting we all become assimilated by the Borg. I love it

But really, the whole "language is not sufficient" argument doesn't hold water.
>>

Oh really? So why don't you enlighten us, oh wise one?
 

Pundit

Senior member
Feb 28, 2002
634
0
0


<<

<< AHA! So he is suggesting we all become assimilated by the Borg. I love it

But really, the whole "language is not sufficient" argument doesn't hold water.
>>

Oh really? So why don't you enlighten us, oh wise one?
>>


Elledan, Iwas afraidyou'd say that. It'stoolate right now andmy spacebardoesn't seem tobe working verywell. I'll enlighten you tomorrow,ok?
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<<

<<

<< AHA! So he is suggesting we all become assimilated by the Borg. I love it

But really, the whole "language is not sufficient" argument doesn't hold water.
>>

Oh really? So why don't you enlighten us, oh wise one?
>>


Elledan, Iwas afraidyou'd say that. It'stoolate right now andmy spacebardoesn't seem tobe working verywell. I'll enlighten you tomorrow,ok?
>>


Chicken
 

lebe0024

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2000
1,101
0
76
It's also worthy to know that I read a bit faster than the average person, so I can read the whole text within a couple of minutes

You're so full of yourself.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< You're so full of yourself. >>


An assumption you base on... what?

You mean you know me better than I know myself? Fool.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,557
344
126


<< It was pretty good, but I was only able to read half of it before I Was distracted >>

Man...you got that far???
 

lebe0024

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2000
1,101
0
76
After all of Elledan's self-absorbed statements like "I'm a genius who's limited by human language," I stopped at the words "bullet-proof glass."
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< After all of Elledan's self-absorbed statements like "I'm a genius who's limited by human language," I stopped at the words "bullet-proof glass." >>


This all shows that your understanding is severely limited. I will never state that I'm in some way 'superior' to everyone else.

However, I do find myself limited by language.

Methinks it's you who is too biased to clearly see around yourself.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,293
6,352
126
Aparently I read much slower than most people. I've noticed, for example, that some people will start to laugh at a cartoon while I'm still scanning it to determine where to start reading and who is saying what.

I read the article but I don't know what happens when I read. I'm looking, I think, to understand the person, and I do that, I think, by trying to feel what feelings are present in what I'm reading.
What I felt was the mind of a lonely young person of some intelligence sort of lost in the labyrinth of his own thoughts.

A piece of ass or the roar of a lion at close range, I think, would put a stop to such musings, pronto, is my guess. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. No, it seems to me that the place where that writing came from is all too familiarly not so far away in my past that I don't remember such moods well. It's just that shoveling horse poop day in and day out in endless repetition, that is to say putting food on the table in a real life, sort of sands off the expansive excess needed for such speculations.

So rather than enlighten anybody, let me just give you a big hug and a kiss and tell you that while I don't know you, you don't know me either.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,293
6,352
126
Well, try this:

What is when thought isn't?

And remember, you won't get the answer by thinking.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< Well, try this:

What is when thought isn't?

And remember, you won't get the answer by thinking.
>>


What's the definition of 'thought'?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Moonbeam, if I may throw in my 2 cents in a perfunctory manner (which suits my mood this morning), I have reached a conclusion which I believe my be related to the above musing. I think detailed explanations for the link are unnecessary.

Enlightenment


Elledan, sometimes I just have to have my fun.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,293
6,352
126
Elledan, please feel free to use any standard definition for thought you care to.

Hay, drugs may open some doors and maybe close others.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0


<< A piece of ass or the roar of a lion at close range, I think, would put a stop to such musings, pronto, is my guess. >>

A mundane yet insightful observation, methinks.
 

Linia

Member
Feb 6, 2002
42
0
0
I didnt get to read the whole thing, but I do agree with your thought about language being very limitable when it comes to expressing yourself (thoughts, feelings, etc). I dont understand why lebe2002 seems to think those are self-absorbed statements. Oh well, I guess I must be self absorbed too for thinking along those lines as well, right Elledan?
 

linuxboy

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,577
6
76
So you liked Killbat's ponderings? =)

What is like?

It's good to have dreams.

Unless one's nightmares are made the reality of many.


dont understand why lebe2002 seems to think those are self-absorbed statements.

He has a sort of previous bias and impression of Elledan. Lebe, what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Eh? The Kingdom of God is within you.

Hi Moonbeam

I'm reading this and I don't know. I read this and I try to feel and understand. What is there when I feel? There is some pain, a sort of loneliness. A sort of stolid determination to take the world and live it on my own terms. There is separation there is no I experiencing something. There is You and everyone else and there is Me, alone and by myself. There is separation. There is loneliness and musings and justifications. There is a wealth of intellect. This must have been me at some point, maybe I am writing it. Maybe I am being pushed off the cliff, OH NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING ???. Variables. Eliminated variables. You stares at me. It is unknown, I want to know it but can't. Something prevents me. Maybe I prevent me.

And then thought. What do I think. There is a question, it asks me. Who asks me? Elledan. He is the I who wrote this. I am he. What do I think. I crave contact. I withdraw. I desire comparison. I want to be absolute. I cannot understand. I am thrown and want to become but on my own terms. There is separation.

I think Elledan, that a piece of ass will cure you quickly of these thoughts. As the intellectuals say, "that woman was the downfall of him, otherwise he was a brilliant man". Perhaps also rocking a crack baby at a hospital will quickly cure you of these thoughts. I don't know. How does one get through so many layers? What if the walls are too thick? I don't know. But I am saddened.

Well, those words expressed what I underwent when reading this. I suppose then, that IS what I think.

*hugs Elledan*, if what I felt is there, you're not alone no matter how hard you try to be.

Cheers !
 

WombatWoman

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2000
5,439
1
0
Dear Elledan,

I think I see your problem. You have been feeding your big, bloated brain too much highfalutin' rich food, and your poor little neurons have gotten gas, resulting in a colossal brain-fart.

What your tender young cerebrum needs every now and then is some nice simple down-home thinkin', none of that fancy-schmancy intellectual college stuff, but the kind of thinkin' that plain ordinary folks do.

I suggest that you scrap all this stream-of-consciousness mumbo-jumbo gumbo for a while.

Here, try this. Your synapses will thank you.

Love,
Mombat

P.S.
Don't pay no mind to your Uncle Moonbeam, he has been a little odd ever since he ate those toadstools.
 

linuxboy

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,577
6
76
Here, try this. Your synapses will thank you.

I like soup...

and Elledan, for an authentic home-down thinkin' experience I suggest you have some grits'n'lovin with that soup. Blackeye philosopeas... fried catsperience... Lo' I's sho' am gettin' pow'rful hungry.

Hi Wombat Lady

Cheers !
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,565
24,443
146
He waxes rhapsodic me thinks! BTW, there's decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tastey as the real thing
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |