SO you think Apple sucks?

[villageidiot111]

Originally posted by: theblackbox

Running vista 64 natively on a mac pro is not emulation. i am not talking about using a virtual machine, i'm talking running windows natively on apple hardware.

I thought we were talking about apple products, not apple products with Windows installed on them. Just because I can install Mac OS X on my desktop doesn't mean I'm going to start calling it a mac. We are talking about apple products here, so keep it that way.

If you feel like plopping down $200 for a windows license to stick on your already overpriced mac, go for it. Or you could buy two comparable windows computers for the same price.

 

[nace186]

Hot apple cider are gross...

but anyway, I hate the ads they put out.

 

[TestedAcorn]

OP has officially been owned.

 

[PingSpike]

Too expensive for the same hardware that is in a PC. Can't play games on them. (Why would would I buy an expensive Mac and then put windows on it to play games? I could just buy a PC with windows on it for less.)

If apple just sold the OS so I could put it on any PC I'd probably give it a shot, because then I could still control my hardware choices. But since that isn't going to happen because then everyone would know the emperor has no clothes.

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Here's how it breaks down.

Ipod is the best invention ever made and I'll gladly pay whatever they want because I'm a huge fanboy.
Itunes is a flaming piece of shit (for windows at least)
Apple Cinema displays are pure sex, but overpriced compared to comparable displays.
Apple computers/notebooks are idiotic unless you have some specific piece of software that is Mac only. Why would anyone would chose to buy a Mac that's much more expensive than a comparably spec'd Windows based PC just to have the pleasure of not being able to run any popular software (without emulation) is beyond me.

Ipod wasn't apple's invention. There were plenty of mp3 players before that.

 

[jpeyton]

iPods suck. iTunes sucks. DRM-infested music from iTunes sucks.

 

[Anubis]

function > form

 

[marketsons1985]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Apple sucks because they sell mediocre products at premium prices.

Being a "bang for your buck" shopper i find apple to be frivilous.

Itunes is overall a slow and resource hungry media player... 128 bitrates... also screw AAC vs MP3...

There are better alternatives to ipods.

I dont want to run more than one operating system to run my software.

I will never spend $1200 a year for a phone plan. So the iPhone is again over the top for me.

There are people who will waste fantastic amounts of money to have "toys" and apple is good at filling the yuppie nitch. It's not for everyone. I am not one of those people.

Again, please play by the rules as laid out by the OP. Use proof. Show me your "mediocre product at a premium price"

and wtf are you talking about 128 bitrates? You can change settings in iTunes however tf you want. I rip all my CDs in 192 VBR MP3. What else is as complete as iTunes (ripping, playing mp3s, movies, podcasts, store, etc.)? Nothing.

What better alternatives are there to iPods? And what makes them better? If you have a statement, back it up with some proof.

And $1200 a year for a phone plan is pretty common for a lot of Blackberry's, etc, all of which don't necessarily do as much as the iPhone.

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
One of the deal breakers when I chose my laptop was the 1 button mouse. I'm too used to doing mouse gestures in Firefox/Opera that I can't sacrifice my right click. Although I do like the 2 finger scrolling, it's still not as efficient as having 2 mouse buttons. Apple seems too stubborn/arrogant to ever change that.

A Macbook Pro with a large trackpad, 2 finger scrolling and 2 mouse buttons would be the best laptop on the market - especially if they can sell them in the $1500 range. You can get an identically spec'd Dell M1330/M1530 for over $1000 less than the Macbook Pro if you wait around for a nice coupon.

New MB and MBP have the option to set your secondary click in the bottom right corner of the trackpad, just like your beloved 2 button mouse. All macs have has 2 finger scrolling for the past 10+ years.

Originally posted by: villageidiot111
I have never seen a mac run a game well, even on comparable hardware. Sure, they may be able to run starcraft, but if you throw any one of today's top fps games on a mac and it will probably explode.

Moot point, already conceded by the OP. No one buys a Mac to play games on. Learn to read.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: marketsons1985

What better alternatives are there to iPods? And what makes them better? If you have a statement, back it up with some proof.

ill just answer this one,

Almost anything from Creative and Cowon, certian Irivers and some may argue the zune

all of the have a better interface, better cotrolls, can use more fileformats, can be used as a removeable drive and not fucking POS itunes, better battery life, changeable batteries, better SQ/SNR

 

[mwmorph]

marked

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
I hear over and over that apple sucks, but nobody ever has a good reason. Well, if you got a good reason, here you go....tell us about it.

I do ask for proof. If you are going to use the "overpriced" route, please be sure to back it up with a price comparison that can back it up. If you are going to just say because they do, well, obviously, you fail.

You are welcome to use the "you can't play games on an apple" and that is fine. apple users know this, and we also know that windows is for playing games. it excels at it, there is no argument if you want to play games, use windows.

Oh, and if you want to talk about their advertising, please spare me and include equal time to the whole Mojave commercial blitz.

I would love to hear why, and see some actual reasons to back it up.

My only gripe with apple right now is the use of glossy screens on the new macbook pro, the matte screen was the best thing apple ever did, and the inclusion of the nvidia 9400/9600 in the mbp. they could have gone with a better gpu. i obviously don't hae them or think they suck for that decision, i jus don't agree with it.

But please, feel free to explain to me why apple sucks if you feel they do.

they suck primarily because of price. nothing else. otherwise i think it's a great product. i love the OS. I love most of the apps. i like the ipod, but don't have an iphone. it's just price for me.

 

[venkman]

I've never owned a Mac, but I've used them extensively at work.

Some of My Reasons
---------------
-They crashed a LOT more than my self built XP machine ever did. I would get that beach ball of death at least once a day while doing nothing more than running the web browser.
-OSX is slow, slow, slow compared to XP (you could argue it is a matter of hardware specs if the Macs my work had were not significantly more expensive than my self built PC).
-On Price again, my high end gaming laptop (8800GTS vid card) costs a $100 more than the lowest end MacBook costs today.
-One Button Mice (I know you can get Two Button Mice now, but it is an additional accessory expense). My work didn't have two button mice and I wasn't willing to pay for one.
-Speaking of accessory expense, apple accessories (mighty mouse, wireless keyboard) are overpriced
-Stupid Mac vs PC commercials that blatantly lie or spin misinformation (maybe "Mac" should run for Chicago's senate seat)
-This one is personal more than anything, I just do not like the layout and usability of the OSX gui. I find it way too oversimplified.
-Can't run 10% of the games out there unless you buy an additional OS and Dual Booting software.

-The Ipod Hardware and the iphone are absolutely fantastic, but the software is complete garbage
-Itunes is slow, klunky, prone to crashing, and insists on installing quicktime and a bunch of other crapware
-Can't drag a podcast to the podcast section of my itouch unless I download it through iTunes
-Itunes slows my computer to a crawl
-Quicktime. Nuff Said.
-iPhone tied to only AT&T and forced contracts.
-Firmware updates cost $10 for my iTouch. WTF? To make it worse, Apple spews BS saying they have to charge $10 for it due to accounting laws.
-I can't download podcast over wifi directly to my touch.
-Ridiculous prices for video content on itunes.

 

[dighn]

I think apple make great products but:
- not cost effective
- don't play well with others; very controlled
- completely unjustifed elitism
- too many shallow and clueless fans

 

[marketsons1985]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: marketsons1985

What better alternatives are there to iPods? And what makes them better? If you have a statement, back it up with some proof.

ill just answer this one,

Almost anything from Creative and Cowon, certian Irivers and some may argue the zune

all of the have a better interface, better cotrolls, can use more fileformats, can be used as a removeable drive and not fucking POS itunes, better battery life, changeable batteries, better SQ/SNR

I'll concede the fileformats, but I don't buy an MP3 player as a removeable drive. And again with the iTunes BS. My iPod Touch lasts longer than my Creative Zen ever did, and the SQ is great.

Interface is solely a personal decision, and I think you'd find more people prefer iPod's interface to anything from creative or cowon.

To me, with the zune, the only thing it has up on the iPod is FM capability.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: dighn
- completely unjustifed elitism
- too many shallow and clueless fans

That's their marketing hype at work. It works wonders, unfortunately.

 

[venkman]

you can use the zune as a removable drive? please link to how!

 

[marketsons1985]

Originally posted by: venkman
I've never owned a Mac, but I've used them extensively at work.

Some of My Reasons
---------------
-They crashed a LOT more than my self built XP machine ever did. I would get that beach ball of death at least once a day while doing nothing more than running the web browser.
-OSX is slow, slow, slow compared to XP (you could argue it is a matter of hardware specs if the Macs my work had were not significantly more expensive than my self built PC).
-On Price again, my high end gaming laptop (8800GTS vid card) costs a $100 more than the lowest end MacBook costs today.
-One Button Mice (I know you can get Two Button Mice now, but it is an additional accessory expense). My work didn't have two button mice and I wasn't willing to pay for one.
-Speaking of accessory expense, apple accessories (mighty mouse, wireless keyboard) are overpriced
-Stupid Mac vs PC commercials that blatantly lie or spin misinformation (maybe "Mac" should run for Chicago's senate seat)
-This one is personal more than anything, I just do not like the layout and usability of the OSX gui. I find it way too oversimplified.
-Can't run 10% of the games out there unless you buy an additional OS and Dual Booting software.

-The Ipod Hardware and the iphone are absolutely fantastic, but the software is complete garbage
-Itunes is slow, klunky, prone to crashing, and insists on installing quicktime and a bunch of other crapware
-Can't drag a podcast to the podcast section of my itouch unless I download it through iTunes
-Itunes slows my computer to a crawl
-Quicktime. Nuff Said.
-iPhone tied to only AT&T and forced contracts.
-Firmware updates cost $10 for my iTouch. WTF? To make it worse, Apple spews BS saying they have to charge $10 for it due to accounting laws.
-I can't download podcast over wifi directly to my touch.
-Ridiculous prices for video content on itunes.

-I've had my Macbook for a year, and had maybe, two crashes? My Vista desktop crashes at least 3 times a week. Guess you're just unlucky.
-And with the mouse, how many of you use the stock mouse that came with your computer? I'm guessing very few. Macs have used 2-button mice well since 2001 and the iBook/Powerbook line.
-The commercials are no worse than the "Windows Mojave" commercials.
-Cost, please back up with proof.
-Games, please read OP.


For the love of god, it's not called an iTouch.
-The firmware update I'm assuming you're referring to was to get up to 2.0, which added a whole bunch of apps and access to the app store. While I disagree with the fact that they charged it, in the long run, most people who use the app store are going to buy $10 worth of apps at some point (I said most, not all) and thus $10 for these apps is not much.
-Your point about podcasts is moot, it was updated and you can do it now.
-What other crapware does itunes install? Last I checked it was just itunes and quicktime, and QT is mostly for video content. That's the downside of getting an all-inclusive media player I suppose. Damn those video files.

 

[TallBill]

The fact that apple advertises there computers as something other then a pc, when that's all it really is. I don't like OSX at all either.

 

[venkman]

Originally posted by: marketsons1985

Originally posted by: venkman
I've never owned a Mac, but I've used them extensively at work.

Some of My Reasons
---------------
-They crashed a LOT more than my self built XP machine ever did. I would get that beach ball of death at least once a day while doing nothing more than running the web browser.
-OSX is slow, slow, slow compared to XP (you could argue it is a matter of hardware specs if the Macs my work had were not significantly more expensive than my self built PC).
-On Price again, my high end gaming laptop (8800GTS vid card) costs a $100 more than the lowest end MacBook costs today.
-One Button Mice (I know you can get Two Button Mice now, but it is an additional accessory expense). My work didn't have two button mice and I wasn't willing to pay for one.
-Speaking of accessory expense, apple accessories (mighty mouse, wireless keyboard) are overpriced
-Stupid Mac vs PC commercials that blatantly lie or spin misinformation (maybe "Mac" should run for Chicago's senate seat)
-This one is personal more than anything, I just do not like the layout and usability of the OSX gui. I find it way too oversimplified.
-Can't run 10% of the games out there unless you buy an additional OS and Dual Booting software.

-The Ipod Hardware and the iphone are absolutely fantastic, but the software is complete garbage
-Itunes is slow, klunky, prone to crashing, and insists on installing quicktime and a bunch of other crapware
-Can't drag a podcast to the podcast section of my itouch unless I download it through iTunes
-Itunes slows my computer to a crawl
-Quicktime. Nuff Said.
-iPhone tied to only AT&T and forced contracts.
-Firmware updates cost $10 for my iTouch. WTF? To make it worse, Apple spews BS saying they have to charge $10 for it due to accounting laws.
-I can't download podcast over wifi directly to my touch.
-Ridiculous prices for video content on itunes.

-I've had my Macbook for a year, and had maybe, two crashes? My Vista desktop crashes at least 3 times a week. Guess you're just unlucky.
-And with the mouse, how many of you use the stock mouse that came with your computer? I'm guessing very few. Macs have used 2-button mice well since 2001 and the iBook/Powerbook line.
-The commercials are no worse than the "Windows Mojave" commercials.
-Cost, please back up with proof.
-Games, please read OP.


For the love of god, it's not called an iTouch.
-The firmware update I'm assuming you're referring to was to get up to 2.0, which added a whole bunch of apps and access to the app store. While I disagree with the fact that they charged it, in the long run, most people who use the app store are going to buy $10 worth of apps at some point (I said most, not all) and thus $10 for these apps is not much.
-Your point about podcasts is moot, it was updated and you can do it now.
-What other crapware does itunes install? Last I checked it was just itunes and quicktime, and QT is mostly for video content. That's the downside of getting an all-inclusive media player I suppose. Damn those video files.

-I guess you are unlucky with Vista. My Vista laptop has crashed maybe twice since I've owned it (Feb 2008).

-Maybe the mouse issue would be fine if they weren't so overpriced for a mighty mouse.

-No, the mac commercials are worse. Simply from the fact that they are on much more.

-Which part do you want me to prove on price?

-Games can also apply to other software. I'm not in the mac community, maybe tons of codec pacs and useful freeware/other software like mkv2vob run great on Macs. somehow i doubt it. As for the OP, it is kind of silly to say, "why does product X suck" and stipulating that you shouldn't mention one of the biggest reasons it sucks.

-I call it iTouch as a short hand. I know apple fanboys are obsessed with saying the entire name of their product. Most people refer to electronics as a "my computer, my laptop, my ipod, or my cell phone" while apple people seem to have a need to say "My MacBook Air, my Macbook Pro 17", my iphone 3G, or my Gen 2 ipod Touch 8GB even when the additional information is completely unnecessary.

-Good to know they finally added this feature, too bad I have to pay $10 for it.

-Microsoft and Sony added a ridiculous amount of new features to my Falcon Xbox 360 Arcade and my 80GB Playstation 3 via firmware and I didn't have to pay for any of it. MS also added a ton of new firmware features to the zune and they are available for free for my 1st Gen Zune 30GB.

-Quicktime is pretty much enough crapware. Plus, it keeps trying to get me to download a bunch of other crap onto my Gateway P-6831FX 17" Gaming Laptop. I don't fall for it, but a less savvy computer user probably has that crap gumming up their PC.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Here's how it breaks down.

Ipod is the best invention ever made and I'll gladly pay whatever they want because I'm a huge fanboy.
Itunes is a flaming piece of shit (for windows at least)
Apple Cinema displays are pure sex, but overpriced compared to comparable displays.
Apple computers/notebooks are idiotic unless you have some specific piece of software that is Mac only. Why would anyone would chose to buy a Mac that's much more expensive than a comparably spec'd Windows based PC just to have the pleasure of not being able to run any popular software (without emulation) is beyond me.

Ipod wasn't apple's invention. There were plenty of mp3 players before that.

He didn't say they invented the MP3 player, he said they invented the iPod.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: venkman
you can use the zune as a removable drive? please link to how!

No, you can't, as far as I know. There may be a hack out there I think, but by default, you cannot.

As a faithful Zune owner since they launched, I can't say the Zune is too much better than the iPod, although I do think the Zune software is better. I also like the monthly subscription service where you still get to keep 10 songs.

I've had my original Zune since launch day, and I'm going to keep using it until it decides it just doesn't want to work anymore. The battery has obviously died down after such long use, but everything else is still kicking, and I have all the features that the newest Zunes have....wireless sync, wireless marketplace browsing/downloading, etc.

 

[mugs]

What surprises me is how much people dislike OS X. As a software developer, working on a Unix-derived OS with a useful command line interface is a dream come true. They're too expensive for me to buy for myself (not necessarily based on their specs, but because I normally buy lower end hardware), but I'm not complaining about my company-issued Macbook.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: venkman

Originally posted by: marketsons1985

Originally posted by: venkman
I've never owned a Mac, but I've used them extensively at work.

Some of My Reasons
---------------
-They crashed a LOT more than my self built XP machine ever did. I would get that beach ball of death at least once a day while doing nothing more than running the web browser.

-I've had my Macbook for a year, and had maybe, two crashes? My Vista desktop crashes at least 3 times a week. Guess you're just unlucky.

-I guess you are unlucky with Vista. My Vista laptop has crashed maybe twice since I've owned it (Feb 2008).

I've been running Vista on my home PC since launch day (got a copy at one of the Vista launch programs they did around the country), and I've only had 2 instances where I had to reboot my computer due to quirkiness. They weren't full-fledged crashes, but enough was messed up where stuff wasn't running right, so a reboot was required to fix it. That's just 2 times in almost 2 years.

I've had my laptop with Vista for 6 months, and no issues whatsoever.

Vista is the best OS I've ever used, hands down.

 

[Fritzo]

Apple doesn't suck- they have cool and innovative ideas and products.

What does suck is their business model. They charge a premium, and then some on top of that, to make their products seem more elite than others. Since people have to put out so much to gain their experience, they tend to get a "I'm better than you because I paid more for an Apple product" attitude.

Apple also keep s a stranglehold on their products so they can only be used in a way they want them to be used. This idea is what nearly sunk the company in the 1990's, and is the main reason SONY is having problems right now.

So, it's not the company, it's their salesmanship, dictatorship, and a good portion of their customers that suck.

 

[marketsons1985]

Originally posted by: venkman

-I guess you are unlucky with Vista. My Vista laptop has crashed maybe twice since I've owned it (Feb 2008).

-Maybe the mouse issue would be fine if they weren't so overpriced for a mighty mouse.

-No, the mac commercials are worse. Simply from the fact that they are on much more.

-Which part do you want me to prove on price?

-Games can also apply to other software. I'm not in the mac community, maybe tons of codec pacs and useful freeware/other software like mkv2vob run great on Macs. somehow i doubt it. As for the OP, it is kind of silly to say, "why does product X suck" and stipulating that you shouldn't mention one of the biggest reasons it sucks.

-I call it iTouch as a short hand. I know apple fanboys are obsessed with saying the entire name of their product. Most people refer to electronics as a "my computer, my laptop, my ipod, or my cell phone" while apple people seem to have a need to say "My MacBook Air, my Macbook Pro 17", my iphone 3G, or my Gen 2 ipod Touch 8GB even when the additional information is completely unnecessary.

-Good to know they finally added this feature, too bad I have to pay $10 for it.

-Microsoft and Sony added a ridiculous amount of new features to their consoles via firmware and I didn't have to pay for any of it. MS also added a ton of new firmware features to the zune and they are available for free for my 1st Gen Zune 30GB.

-Quicktime is pretty much enough crapware. Plus, it keeps trying to get me to download a bunch of other crap onto my Gateway P-6831FX 17" Gaming Laptop. I don't fall for it, but a less savvy computer user probably has that crap gumming up their PC.

-Why does the price of the mighty mouse matter? If you don't like the mouse, don't buy it. Use an old crappy mouse from your basement.
-Maybe my whole family is just unlucky with Vista then. And the rest of the known universe that has Vista crap out on them more often than you.

-I see more Mojave commercials on TV than I do the Mac commercials. Again, might be a regional thing, but I can't remember the last time I saw a Mac commercial on by me (SE Michigan)

-IMHO Spec-for-spec the price is not too dissimilar. If you can show me that a VERY similarly spec'd dell costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than a MacBook I'll concede the point. But I've found this to not be true, and everyone in this thread is just claiming it as "known information."

-I've yet to find much software that doesn't work on my mac in one form or another. I was worried about this when I got rid of my last notebook and got my MacBook, but I've found it to be a moot point. I have no problem watching MKV files or any XVID/DVIX or any other sound codec that you can think of. And as for the OP, he stated that people don't buy Macs for Gaming. So if you don't buy something with the intent to play games on it, it's a moot point if it doesn't play games well. Don't like it? Don't buy it. But it was never intended as a gaming platform.

-iTouch just sounds ridiculous. iTouch is as ridiculous as iVideo, iNano, iClassic, iShuffle. No one calls them that, except people that don't know any better.

-Comparing consoles to the iPod touch? Try taking your PS3 in your pocket. Good luck. Can you download podcasts onto your Zune via Wifi? (Actual question, I do not know)

-Again, I've never had any problems with quicktime wanting to install other crap. I'm still not sure what you're referring to.