SO you think Apple sucks?

[CKent]

1) Same hardware as PCs, much higher pricing.
2) Customers are all fashion-wannabe pretentious assholes.
3) Much higher percentage of revenue spent on advertising, for what this does to pricing see 1)
4) Mentality of Apple being right. No options in sight, if you don't like a certain function, you are wrong and must adapt to the Right way of doing it, Apple's. Mostly applies to their software.
5) Games? Hello? Games?
6) Itunes is bloated shit and quicktime is malware.

Don't get me wrong, as a business they're doing all the right things and have the success to show for it. I can't fault them for doing what businesses are created to do - make money. But their methods are laughable and I'd die before buying their products. I do have an Ipod, it was free. It's pretty lame and I had to rockbox it to make it behave as it should (load it easily as a usb storage device, play flac/ogg, etc.).

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: CKent
1) Same hardware as PCs, much higher pricing.
2) Customers are all fashion-wannabe pretentious assholes.
3) Much higher percentage of revenue spent on advertising, for what this does to pricing see 1)
4) Mentality of Apple being right. No options in sight, if you don't like a certain function, you are wrong and must adapt to the Right way of doing it, Apple's. Mostly applies to their software.
5) Games? Hello? Games?
6) Itunes is bloated shit and quicktime is malware.

Don't get me wrong, as a business they're doing all the right things and have the success to show for it. I can't fault them for doing what businesses are created to do - make money. But their methods are laughable and I'd die before buying their products. I do have an Ipod, it was free. It's pretty lame and I had to rockbox it to make it behave as it should (load it easily as a usb storage device, play flac/ogg, etc.).

1. really? show me withe the mac pro, the highest priced computer made by apple.
2. really? thats nice. typical stereotype.
3. can't argue that. they like advertising, but most companies do, advertising is a part of business.
4. thats why they offer bootcamp?
5. you should learn to read, we covered this. but hey, a lot of gamers make a living gaming, right.
6. only in windows, and if you hate it so much, don't use it.

gosh the ipod is so lame, but wha about it's competition? all the ipod and any other mp3 player is basically amounts to a fancy music player. wow. thats deep.

i really think you should change your name to coke zero, all the taste with none of the content.

 

[SsupernovaE]

What about my reason?

Originally posted by: SsupernovaE
I'm disabled and absolutely require Dragon NaturallySpeaking or at the very least the Vista speech engine for computer control and input. There is nothing comparable on Apple products. And don't mention that POS Dictate.

I mean, this doesn't mean I actually hate Apple, but for a company that has such a relatively large share they are very accessibility unfriendly. Trust me, it is much harder to customize a Mac than it is a PC. "It just works!", but not for me.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: Gothgar
I hate Mac cause of the OP

 

[Linflas]

Easy. Unlike MS Apple are true monopolists who refuse to sell their OS without having to buy their hardware to go along with it. Hell they even used to cripple standard I/O devices like serial and parallel ports so that only Apple manufactured peripherals would work with them. If their OS is so great then let them specify the hardware specs and sell it the way MS has always done with Windows.

 

[Parasitic]

People who complain about the Mac keyboard and mice do know that one can use pretty much ANY kind of USB keyboard/mouse with Macs, right?

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: SsupernovaE
What about my reason?

Originally posted by: SsupernovaE
I'm disabled and absolutely require Dragon NaturallySpeaking or at the very least the Vista speech engine for computer control and input. There is nothing comparable on Apple products. And don't mention that POS Dictate.

I mean, this doesn't mean I actually hate Apple, but for a company that has such a relatively large share they are very accessibility unfriendly. Trust me, it is much harder to customize a Mac than it is a PC. "It just works!", but not for me.

It's a great reason, and because it's such a good reason it'll probably just get ignored like all the other good reasons to dislike a mac.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: SsupernovaE
What about my reason?

Originally posted by: SsupernovaE
I'm disabled and absolutely require Dragon NaturallySpeaking or at the very least the Vista speech engine for computer control and input. There is nothing comparable on Apple products. And don't mention that POS Dictate.

I mean, this doesn't mean I actually hate Apple, but for a company that has such a relatively large share they are very accessibility unfriendly. Trust me, it is much harder to customize a Mac than it is a PC. "It just works!", but not for me.

It's a great reason, and because it's such a good reason it'll probably just get ignored like all the other good reasons to dislike a mac.

It's a good reason but it's more of IBM's fault than Apple's for not wanting to touch the OSX crowd, isn't it?

 

[fatpat268]

I don't dislike Apple's products in particular, but I do dislike Apple's lack of choice and business practices.

-There isn't a single Apple computer that appeals to me. On the laptop front, I'd rather buy a mid ranged 15in laptop at ~$600, then shell out $1200 for a 13 inch laptop with comparable specs. Size does not matter that much to me. Likewise, to get a 15 inch laptop, I gotta spend $1500+ for a Macbook pro which is completely overkill for me in every respect on a laptop.

-On the desktop front: The iMac represents how wasteful Apple is. Apple touts that they're green... yada yada yada. Well bullshit. I understand the draw of an iMac is that it's an elegant one piece machine. very few cables and clean looking. But there's no freedom. You find that you want a new monitor, well lets buy a new computer! (Yes, I realize you could just add a secondary monitor, but that's beside the point). Monitor goes bad? Well, instead of replacing just the monitor, you replace the computer. Likewise... wanna buy a new computer but keep that nice 24 inch monitor? HAHAHA! I feel comfort in the knowledge that in case my monitor ever goes bad, I can simply replace the monitor and nothing else. Sure, it doesn't look as elegant of a setup, but I prefer function over form anyday. I've had my current 20in monitor for over 3 years and I've been consistently upgrading my PC with it.

-Also, It's a crying shame that the only true desktop machine is an overpriced monstrosity. Yes, I get it, the Mac Pro is a great machine, but just like the Macbook Pro, a great majority of people will have absolutely no use for it. Why cannot Apple create a midranged desktop computer (in the same form factor as a Mac Pro) and release it at a mid ranged price... ie $600-$800? If Apple did, hell, I might even pick one up.

-Mac mini is a nice concept, but honestly overpriced and woefully neglected by Apple themselves.

-Apple makes some beautiful monitors, but again, overpriced. They may have some of the best panels in the industry in their monitors, but I'm kind a bang for your buck kinda guy. I'm perfectly fine with a monitor that may not have *perfect* color representation, as long as I didn't pay an arm and a leg for it. What's worse is that Apple's newest monitors are currently only compatible with their new Macbooks and Macbook Pros, that is until they release an expensive adapter to use it on other machines. A complete and ridiculous solution, imo.

-iPhone 3G: Don't get me wrong. I love the idea. I own an iPod Touch, and I truly and honestly like it. I would love to have have an iPod touch with phone integrated, but I refuse to pay a ridiculous $30 a month data charge just for the privilege of owning an iPhone 3G. First thing: I really don't need a 3g connection for internet use because as with my Touch, I usually have Wifi when and where I want to use it. If I don't, oh well. Second: I recall someone mentioning that Blackberry charges large premium prices as well for using their phone and data packages. And they're right. But there's a key difference. Blackberries are primarily marketed to the business user (with a few exceptions) and the iPhone is marketed to mass consumer. I would love to own an iPhone, but I won't because it's unfair that I'm forced to pay for something I would sparingly use.

-Lack of removable batteries. Face it, with current battery technology, batteries eventually die.... so why doesn't apple allow you to replace them in their newest products? No removable battery in the iPods, iPhone, Macbook Air, and I'm pretty certain the new Macbooks. Oh yea, that's right, Apple wants you to throw out your current machine and buy a new apple product instead of simply replacing the battery. For my current laptop, I always carry a spare battery in my bag in the off chance that I won't be near an outlet, or for travel. I like that freedom of being able to switch batteries quickly and efficiently. I can forgive the iPods not having a user removable battery, as a good majority of mp3 players on the markets don't either, but I'm dumbfounded that the iPhone doesn't have one. Why? Just like my laptop, I ALWAYS carry a spare charged cell phone battery with me. Why? Well... shit happens. You forget to charge overnight and have little to no battery life when you need it the most. So I carry an extra. Even worse for an iPhone, when the battery life isn't even that great to begin with... and top it off with the ability to play videos and games. Just inexcusable.

That's my short list of (major) complaints about Apple. I don't mind OSX itself, even though I feel it's a little simplified and confining. My major beef is about the lack of choice.

 

[LtPage1]

People think Apple sucks because of people like you starting threads like this.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

I don't like the annoying people that think they're having a better time doing the same things people do on PC because they paid more for fancy bullshit. Apple monopolizes its computers and refuses to open up OSX to PC based machines. It's like they're trying to sell the same thing for more money by taking the "cool" angle. It just comes off as snobbish and I will not be giving them any of my business.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Easy. Unlike MS Apple are true monopolists who refuse to sell their OS without having to buy their hardware to go along with it. Hell they even used to cripple standard I/O devices like serial and parallel ports so that only Apple manufactured peripherals would work with them. If their OS is so great then let them specify the hardware specs and sell it the way MS has always done with Windows.

When did they do that? When did Macs even come with parallel ports? There have been third-party peripherals for Macs for as long as I can remember.

 

[SSSnail]

This is just like the people that believe in gods (of the variant man made ones) and ask you to prove that their god doesn't exist.

Great advertising, there are lots of suckers out there.

 

[iamme]

(i haven't read the entire thread)

my Apple complaints:
- Apple's ability to remotely kill apps on your iPhone (imagine if Microsoft had that functionality, people would freak)
- Apple's decision to not support Flash on the iPhone's Safari browser. IMO, this is an attempt to restrict iPhone apps to App Store only. It's an annoying omission.

 

[Eeezee]

I dislike Apple's products because of the hypocrisy involved with so many of its products.

Originally posted by: theblackbox

Originally posted by: CKent
1) Same hardware as PCs, much higher pricing.
2) Customers are all fashion-wannabe pretentious assholes.
3) Much higher percentage of revenue spent on advertising, for what this does to pricing see 1)
4) Mentality of Apple being right. No options in sight, if you don't like a certain function, you are wrong and must adapt to the Right way of doing it, Apple's. Mostly applies to their software.
5) Games? Hello? Games?
6) Itunes is bloated shit and quicktime is malware.

Don't get me wrong, as a business they're doing all the right things and have the success to show for it. I can't fault them for doing what businesses are created to do - make money. But their methods are laughable and I'd die before buying their products. I do have an Ipod, it was free. It's pretty lame and I had to rockbox it to make it behave as it should (load it easily as a usb storage device, play flac/ogg, etc.).

1. really? show me withe the mac pro, the highest priced computer made by apple.

Very Well - for comparison's sake, I went on Newegg and built a fairly standard modern PC that exactly matches the hardware in a MacPro that I've also assembled. Notice that this price for the MacPro doesn't include a monitor, and I reduced the number of processors to 1 because two processors in a PC is excessive and actually kind of stupid (you don't double your performance like you might think, the increase in performance is actually pretty small for having a second processor).

$315 - 2.8GHz Quad-Core CPU, 12MB of L2
$200 - Equivalent motherboard (actually closer to $120-$150, but overinflated for your benefit)
$180 - 4x1GB DDR2 800MHz
$60 - 320GB SATA2 HDD
$50 - ATI Radeon HD2600 XT 256MB ($30 after rebate, but meh)
$30 - 16x dual-layer DVD burner
$50 - NICE USB Mouse
$35 - NICE USB Keyboard
$100 - Good Antec Power Supply
$100 - A nice case
$1120 total
Did I forget anything? I don't think so.

Mac Pro with the same or possibly worse hardware, since they don't say anything about the power supply or motherboard - $2299.00

Even if you tack on $400 for labor and $200 for some additional hardware improvements, that's nearly $600 extra you're paying just for the Mac brand name.

How about we build a similar Alienware desktop? That should be fun. $1649 for the Area-51 X58 gets you better hardware than the Mac Pro (DDR3 instead of DDR2 RAM and a 512MB 9800 GT). That's still a $600 saving!

2. really? thats nice. typical stereotype.

And it's mostly true. Apple stores are full of smugness. Even Apple supporters agree with this. How about you bring some evidence to the contrary? I can show you any number of Apple commercials showing off the stereotype that you're trying to rally against.

3. can't argue that. they like advertising, but most companies do, advertising is a part of business.

Yes, but Apple attempted to mock Microsoft for spending money on advertising.

http://industry.bnet.com/techn...ising-budget-revealed/
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...than-microsoft-vistas/

Does Apple really need half a billion dollars in advertising to market its superior products? According to Apple's own estimates, Microsoft only spends $300 million on Windows advertising. This is the epitome of hypocrisy.

4. thats why they offer bootcamp?

Okay, so you've verified his point. Why is it so bad to want multiple ways to do the same thing?

Is this how you usually debate? By agreeing with your opponent?

5. you should learn to read, we covered this. but hey, a lot of gamers make a living gaming, right.

Why is it okay to ignore this point? And actually, there are a fair number of gamers who DO make a living gaming. Furthermore, are you trying to claim that anyone requires a Mac to make a living? Sorry, but every good piece of software (video recording, photography, etc.) is not only compatible with Windows, but usually compatible with Linux!

6. only in windows, and if you hate it so much, don't use it.

And in Linux, which is why so many people use quicktime alternative. Crippling your software for other operating systems is not a good business practice. How can you possibly make an excuse for this? Shit, even Microsoft made Office work well in a Mac environment.

gosh the ipod is so lame, but wha about it's competition? all the ipod and any other mp3 player is basically amounts to a fancy music player. wow. thats deep.

The difference being price - the equivalent MP3 player from just about any other manufacturer is 25%-50% of the iPod price for the exact same features.

i really think you should change your name to coke zero, all the taste with none of the content.

LOL U R CLEVER

 

[Eeezee]

Also, I dislike their proprietary bullshit. Why shouldn't I be able to swap out batteries myself? Why shouldn't I be able to purchase a power adapter from a 3rd party producer? Why should I be required to purchase their hardware in order to use their software?

 

[OCGuy]

Yea Apple fans pretty much get owned on that build example Everyone knows how bad they are except the brain-washed artsy college kids that eat up that advertising.....

 

[iamme]

even the most hardened Apple critic has to admit that their marketing team is brilliant. they've basically made it cool and anti-establishment to buy Apple products. i find the smugness of the ads rather annoying at this point, but they've done a marvelous job at marketing the mantra, "you own an Apple product.....you're cool now". i don't mean this sarcastically, but they've honestly done a remarkable job at solidifying their brand. i enjoy the latest Microsoft commercial ads, but they'll have to spend tons of money to get Apple's "i'm cool, you're not" image.

 

[Shawn]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2258783&enterthread=y

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I dislike Apple's products because of the hypocrisy involved with so many of its products.

Originally posted by: theblackbox

Originally posted by: CKent
1) Same hardware as PCs, much higher pricing.
2) Customers are all fashion-wannabe pretentious assholes.
3) Much higher percentage of revenue spent on advertising, for what this does to pricing see 1)
4) Mentality of Apple being right. No options in sight, if you don't like a certain function, you are wrong and must adapt to the Right way of doing it, Apple's. Mostly applies to their software.
5) Games? Hello? Games?
6) Itunes is bloated shit and quicktime is malware.

Don't get me wrong, as a business they're doing all the right things and have the success to show for it. I can't fault them for doing what businesses are created to do - make money. But their methods are laughable and I'd die before buying their products. I do have an Ipod, it was free. It's pretty lame and I had to rockbox it to make it behave as it should (load it easily as a usb storage device, play flac/ogg, etc.).

1. really? show me withe the mac pro, the highest priced computer made by apple.

Very Well - for comparison's sake, I went on Newegg and built a fairly standard modern PC that exactly matches the hardware in a MacPro that I've also assembled. Notice that this price for the MacPro doesn't include a monitor, and I reduced the number of processors to 1 because two processors in a PC is excessive and actually kind of stupid (you don't double your performance like you might think, the increase in performance is actually pretty small for having a second processor).

$315 - 2.8GHz Quad-Core CPU, 12MB of L2
$200 - Equivalent motherboard (actually closer to $120-$150, but overinflated for your benefit)
$180 - 4x1GB DDR2 800MHz
$60 - 320GB SATA2 HDD
$50 - ATI Radeon HD2600 XT 256MB ($30 after rebate, but meh)
$30 - 16x dual-layer DVD burner
$50 - NICE USB Mouse
$35 - NICE USB Keyboard
$100 - Good Antec Power Supply
$100 - A nice case
$1120 total
Did I forget anything? I don't think so.

Mac Pro with the same or possibly worse hardware, since they don't say anything about the power supply or motherboard - $2299.00

Even if you tack on $400 for labor and $200 for some additional hardware improvements, that's nearly $600 extra you're paying just for the Mac brand name.

How about we build a similar Alienware desktop? That should be fun. $1649 for the Area-51 X58 gets you better hardware than the Mac Pro (DDR3 instead of DDR2 RAM and a 512MB 9800 GT). That's still a $600 saving!

2. really? thats nice. typical stereotype.

And it's mostly true. Apple stores are full of smugness. Even Apple supporters agree with this. How about you bring some evidence to the contrary? I can show you any number of Apple commercials showing off the stereotype that you're trying to rally against.

3. can't argue that. they like advertising, but most companies do, advertising is a part of business.

Yes, but Apple attempted to mock Microsoft for spending money on advertising.

http://industry.bnet.com/techn...ising-budget-revealed/
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...than-microsoft-vistas/

Does Apple really need half a billion dollars in advertising to market its superior products? According to Apple's own estimates, Microsoft only spends $300 million on Windows advertising. This is the epitome of hypocrisy.

4. thats why they offer bootcamp?

Okay, so you've verified his point. Why is it so bad to want multiple ways to do the same thing?

Is this how you usually debate? By agreeing with your opponent?

5. you should learn to read, we covered this. but hey, a lot of gamers make a living gaming, right.

Why is it okay to ignore this point? And actually, there are a fair number of gamers who DO make a living gaming. Furthermore, are you trying to claim that anyone requires a Mac to make a living? Sorry, but every good piece of software (video recording, photography, etc.) is not only compatible with Windows, but usually compatible with Linux!

6. only in windows, and if you hate it so much, don't use it.

And in Linux, which is why so many people use quicktime alternative. Crippling your software for other operating systems is not a good business practice. How can you possibly make an excuse for this? Shit, even Microsoft made Office work well in a Mac environment.

gosh the ipod is so lame, but wha about it's competition? all the ipod and any other mp3 player is basically amounts to a fancy music player. wow. thats deep.

The difference being price - the equivalent MP3 player from just about any other manufacturer is 25%-50% of the iPod price for the exact same features.

i really think you should change your name to coke zero, all the taste with none of the content.

LOL U R CLEVER

what if i need more then 4 gig of ram in your setup? a second processor? i didn't see that in your build. mac pro uses a 5000x based board, i believe.

half a billion vs 300 million. nice play on words. say it 500 million vs 300 million, not that much. u r clever, not me.

and you are right, there are gamers that make money off gaming. are they more then 25% of the microsoft windows pc user base? most gamers do it for fun.

i didn't say there were not good alternatives to mac software, i think avid is a great package for video, and pro tools is not bad, and 8 is supposed to be better. but...


and back to newegg. we are back to the do it yourself market. i'd love to see you spec a workstation from dell at the same as the base mac pro.

and i checked newegg too.

the E5440 harpertown runs 738.00
the macpro uses the 5462
so 738x2 is 1476

dual lga 771 motherboards run about 300 bucks. i'm at 1776 now
starts adding up fast if you do a fair comparison of similar items.

never said two processors made things faster, but with leverage it sure does help rendering and processing video.
pushing calculations it makes things a lot smoother.

 

[xanis]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Yea Apple fans pretty much get owned on that build example Everyone knows how bad they are except the brain-washed artsy college kids that eat up that advertising.....

Were there supposed to be coherent sentences in there somewhere?

And again, not everyone who owns an Apple product is a douchebag or a "brainwashed artsy college kid". Stop with the damn stereotyping. We get it, you don't like Apple. Great.

 

[TheInternet1980]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
the E5440 harpertown runs 738.00
the macpro uses the 5462
so 738x2 is 1476

dual lga 771 motherboards run about 300 bucks. i'm at 1776 now
starts adding up fast if you do a fair comparison of similar items.

never said two processors made things faster, but with leverage it sure does help rendering and processing video.
pushing calculations it makes things a lot smoother.

Why in god's name would you WANT to run lga 771, in a desktop environment? Not much else you'd need dual Harpertowns for, besides a database server, or a renderer. A quad is plenty for sufficient for anything an average or professional user would want from a home computer. Unless you plan on rendering a bunch of shit on your home desktop, in which case, I think you'd have another box to game/surf/etc. on.

It's retarded to restrict the DIY build to an lga771, because apple decided to go extreme overkill on their build. ONE quad is pretty much overkill right now for most things. TWO? Wtf. This is not a route anyone building their own machine would go, unless they had tons of cash to blow on a build.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Yea Apple fans pretty much get owned on that build example Everyone knows how bad they are except the brain-washed artsy college kids that eat up that advertising.....

Were there supposed to be coherent sentences in there somewhere?

And again, not everyone who owns an Apple product is a douchebag or a "brainwashed artsy college kid". Stop with the damn stereotyping. We get it, you don't like Apple. Great.

When do you graduate?

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: TheInternet1980

Originally posted by: theblackbox
the E5440 harpertown runs 738.00
the macpro uses the 5462
so 738x2 is 1476

dual lga 771 motherboards run about 300 bucks. i'm at 1776 now
starts adding up fast if you do a fair comparison of similar items.

never said two processors made things faster, but with leverage it sure does help rendering and processing video.
pushing calculations it makes things a lot smoother.

Why in god's name would you WANT to run lga 771, in a desktop environment? Not much else you'd need dual Harpertowns for, besides a Database server, or a renderer. A quad is plenty for sufficient for anything an average or professional user would want from a home computer. Unless you plan on rendering a bunch of shit on your home desktop, in which case, I think you'd have another box to game/surf/etc. on.

It's retarded to restrict the DIY build to an lga771, because apple decided to go extreme overkill on their build. ONE quad is pretty much overkill right now for most things. TWO? Wtf.

omg.. wait. maybe if you are self employed and your home is your office??? not everyone that has a desktop at home is just using it gaming. some people do more in life.
what happens when apple releases the next dual mac pro, based off the new i7 xeon in whatever form it is?
the mac pro is a workstation, and compared to other workstations in it's class, a good deal.
my mac pro is more then just a desktop, it's a tool for work when i need it.
i'm sure you can easily undercut a build with something else, but thats like saying i can build a mercedes with toyota parts.
WTF?

 

[Cogman]

How about this, What makes an apple vastly superior to a windows/linux based machine?

I have yet to have an apple person give me a real answer to this. Most of there answers are things which both systems already have.

Macs cost more, End of story, I've looked it up more then enough times (and recently) to be convinced that you are buying a mac because its cool, not because you want a functional piece of equipment.

And, while I concede that not every mac user is a smug jerk, a fair portion of them are. (Especially the men, most women don't seem to be smug about their macs, however there seems to be some alpha dog toggle that flips when a man buys a mac). Its like someone that buys expensive cloths, they aren't all smug jerks, however, the higher the price they spend, the more likely they are to be a smug jerk. This applies to cars, Stereos, ect. Its the attitude of "I spent more so I'm better then you."