SO you think Apple sucks?

[judasmachine]

This is pretty much an argument over operating systems now that apples use the same parts right? Or is this an argument over whose shell is prettier?


Mmmm apple pie.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Cogman
How about this, What makes an apple vastly superior to a windows/linux based machine?

I have yet to have an apple person give me a real answer to this. Most of there answers are things which both systems already have.

Macs cost more, End of story, I've looked it up more then enough times (and recently) to be convinced that you are buying a mac because its cool, not because you want a functional piece of equipment.

And, while I concede that not every mac user is a smug jerk, a fair portion of them are. (Especially the men, most women don't seem to be smug about their macs, however there seems to be some alpha dog toggle that flips when a man buys a mac). Its like someone that buys expensive cloths, they aren't all smug jerks, however, the higher the price they spend, the more likely they are to be a smug jerk. This applies to cars, Stereos, ect. Its the attitude of "I spent more so I'm better then you."

nothing makes it superior. it's a pc. they all are. i think i have reitterated several times that both have their place, and i use both.
if you have ever used final cut, shake, motion or any other video software on the mac side, you get an idea. i didn't buy a mac pro because it was cool, i bought it because it is a tool for production.
thats like sun servers. do people spend the money because they are cool?
i have never once that i recall said that apple is superior, i just wanted to know and still do why so many people think apple sucks.
if you want to talk about e-penis, look at every signature that has the component break down of a pc and the overclock, and the number of cards they have in sli...same difference in your book.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
This is pretty much an argument over operating systems now that apples use the same parts right? Or is this an argument over whose shell is prettier?


Mmmm apple pie.

nah, the whole point was to ask why so many people are opposed to apple and think apple sucks. has nothing to do with either the OS or the shell. it comes down to people having an opinion.

 

[sdifox]

Apple used to be able to argue their hardware cost more because they were on PPC.

That argument left the moment it switch to PC topology first then Intel chips. Except for the extra circuitry to make it proprietary.

And the fact they will not allow criticism in their own forums. They erase them and pretend the posts never existed.

iTune pwns all the good stuff Apple has done.

 

[SlitheryDee]

A mac is a pc that sucks at games. There is nothing about a mac that puts it above a pc as far as price, function, or upgradability, but there is at least that one thing that works against it. A mac is not better than a pc. It is deficient in at least one respect while not offering up anything comparable that it does better than a pc to even the score. The mac is therefore superfluous in a universe in which pcs exist.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Because I can't get a desktop with something like an e7200, 4GB ram, and a 9600gt for under $500 from Apple.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
Running vista 64 natively on a mac pro is not emulation. i am not talking about using a virtual machine, i'm talking running windows natively on apple hardware.

If you're going to run Vista on your Mac, it seems that your arguments about Mac being better are kind of

My argument:
One button mouse. Sure, you can BUY multibutton mice, but the OS isn't designed around them as well or as completely as Windows. And while we're on the subject of mice, stock Apple mice are the most stylish, and LEAST function, mice on the planet. Omitting obvious failures like the hockey-puck mouse, even their current "mighty mouse" is a royal PITA to use if you ever have to pick it up while holding the button down (like, say, if you're using any program at all). Also, their only stock 2-button mouse doesn't reliably distinguish between left and right clicks. All because Steve Jobs thought that putting different buttons on a mouse for different functions would destroy Apple's artistic vision, so it's a one-piece cover which *in theory* distinguishes between pressure on different sides. Oh, and let's not forget the whole "I'm moving my mouse over to the side, whoops I just hit my keyboard/a book on the table/my coffee cup and accidentally clicked when I didn't want to" bit.
To their credit, I do like the scroll ball which lets you scroll in X and Y at the same time. But everything else about it sucks.

Also, the bug where occasionally when connecting to a server share, the volume doesn't show up on the desktop, and then when you try connecting again it tells you that you're already connected to that share. The only cure is to either (a)reboot, or (b)go to /volumes, open the share, have it magically show up on your desktop, and never be able to disconnect until you (a)reboot.

Also, the bug where under certain conditions, you can be navigating a share, and the folder order changes at exactly the moment when you click on the folder you want to open (as in, you try to double-click to open it, and the first click sends it five places up, so your second click hits another folder entirely).

Also, charging hundreds of dollars for a lousy service pack (no, the different OS X versions do NOT count as "brand-new" OSes).

Also, Text

That said...overall I think they are great machines, although their elitist fan base, their choice of form over function, and the unfixed bugs irk me.

 

[clarkey01]

I'm quite happy to see some many pro MS and PC posters, nice to know the world hasn't lost it's marbles. Wait the whole world aren't smug idiots who like to waste their money, pretending there's some fairy dust inside their Macbook that makes it run a BAZILLIONNNNN times faster then a PC.

I wonder how FAR BEHIND we would be without the open system that is the PC...

Never bite the hand that feeds you. I am not saying MS are angels , but I'm glad there about today...

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: Cogman
How about this, What makes an apple vastly superior to a windows/linux based machine?

I have yet to have an apple person give me a real answer to this. Most of there answers are things which both systems already have.

Macs cost more, End of story, I've looked it up more then enough times (and recently) to be convinced that you are buying a mac because its cool, not because you want a functional piece of equipment.

And, while I concede that not every mac user is a smug jerk, a fair portion of them are. (Especially the men, most women don't seem to be smug about their macs, however there seems to be some alpha dog toggle that flips when a man buys a mac). Its like someone that buys expensive cloths, they aren't all smug jerks, however, the higher the price they spend, the more likely they are to be a smug jerk. This applies to cars, Stereos, ect. Its the attitude of "I spent more so I'm better then you."

I have a simple answer. I want a unix notebook that requires no effort on my part to get functioning. I also want the ability to run photoshop and flash. Apple provides this. Nothing else currently does.

Sure I can buy a dell notebook and get ubuntu to work on it. But there is always something that doesn't work 100%. My macbook pro just works. No hacks, no work around, it just functions. That is worth the extra couple hundred I put out. On top of that, I enjoy the MacOS and the slick interface. I enjoy many of the programs that can only be found on the mac (textmate, garageband, etc)

So that makes it superior for what I want to do and superior for my job (developing unix software). A side advantage is that I can do iphone development for my iphone without hassles, and that if it comes down to it, I can always go back to my old operating system, ubuntu.

Now I would never run osx on the server...but for a solid unix desktop with commercial support, nothing beats it.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: Cogman
How about this, What makes an apple vastly superior to a windows/linux based machine?

I have yet to have an apple person give me a real answer to this. Most of there answers are things which both systems already have.

Macs cost more, End of story, I've looked it up more then enough times (and recently) to be convinced that you are buying a mac because its cool, not because you want a functional piece of equipment.

And, while I concede that not every mac user is a smug jerk, a fair portion of them are. (Especially the men, most women don't seem to be smug about their macs, however there seems to be some alpha dog toggle that flips when a man buys a mac). Its like someone that buys expensive cloths, they aren't all smug jerks, however, the higher the price they spend, the more likely they are to be a smug jerk. This applies to cars, Stereos, ect. Its the attitude of "I spent more so I'm better then you."

I have a simple answer. I want a unix notebook that requires no effort on my part to get functioning. I also want the ability to run photoshop and flash. Apple provides this. Nothing else currently does.

Sure I can buy a dell notebook and get ubuntu to work on it. But there is always something that doesn't work 100%. My macbook pro just works. No hacks, no work around, it just functions. That is worth the extra couple hundred I put out. On top of that, I enjoy the MacOS and the slick interface. I enjoy many of the programs that can only be found on the mac (textmate, garageband, etc)

So that makes it superior for what I want to do and superior for my job (developing unix software). A side advantage is that I can do iphone development for my iphone without hassles, and that if it comes down to it, I can always go back to my old operating system, ubuntu.

Now I would never run osx on the server...but for a solid unix desktop with commercial support, nothing beats it.

SHENS

 

[soydios]

Apple's engineers can be brilliant when they're allowed to be (see MagSafe). I just don't like the management and the fan club.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: clarkey01


SHENS

Your argument is convincing. Anyone want to buy a macbook pro or trade for a dell?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
I hear over and over that apple sucks, but nobody ever has a good reason. Well, if you got a good reason, here you go....tell us about it.

I do ask for proof. If you are going to use the "overpriced" route, please be sure to back it up with a price comparison that can back it up. If you are going to just say because they do, well, obviously, you fail.

You are welcome to use the "you can't play games on an apple" and that is fine. apple users know this, and we also know that windows is for playing games. it excels at it, there is no argument if you want to play games, use windows.

Oh, and if you want to talk about their advertising, please spare me and include equal time to the whole Mojave commercial blitz.

I would love to hear why, and see some actual reasons to back it up.

My only gripe with apple right now is the use of glossy screens on the new macbook pro, the matte screen was the best thing apple ever did, and the inclusion of the nvidia 9400/9600 in the mbp. they could have gone with a better gpu. i obviously don't hae them or think they suck for that decision, i jus don't agree with it.

But please, feel free to explain to me why apple sucks if you feel they do.

because of people like you defending them.

 

[Duddy]

I love Apple.

But of course, I'm a Starbucks fan as well.

All about the image to me. I'm shallow, but not clueless. I quad boot Vista, Ubuntu, XP and OSX.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Duddy
I love Apple.

But of course, I'm a Starbucks fan as well.

All about the image to me. I'm shallow, but not clueless. I quad boot Vista, Ubuntu, XP and OSX.

funny, thats how i have mine set up

OS X
Vista 64
XP
Ubuntu 8.10

the only thing about ubuntu is i haven't really found a use for it, i'd like to find more use for linux, but honestly besides the internet and free word processing haven't really dug that deep to find a good use for it. i'd like to, and become more familiar, but i just haven't

 

[Duddy]

Yeah, I really want to like Ubuntu, but also can't find a use for it other than having it as a portable/bootable OS on a USB stick.

I use XP for some older programs and some older games.

I use OS X because I wish I could afford a Mac. Also when people come over and see it they trip out. Geek points for me.

Vista 64 is my main OS and it works perfectly.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Duddy
Yeah, I really want to like Ubuntu, but also can't find a use for it other than having it as a portable/bootable OS on a USB stick.

I use XP for some older programs and some older games.

I use OS X because I wish I could afford a Mac. Also when people come over and see it they trip out. Geek points for me.

Vista 64 is my main OS and it works perfectly.

you ever try to run osx off a usb stick. works well.

 

[Fenixgoon]

simple: my dad purchased a 24" LCD monitor, an E8400, 4gigs of ram, a slot-loading DVD+- RW, and an 8800GS for over $2k (he bought a 24" imac)

it's nice (and way faster than my machine damn being a college student, hehe) but I don't see the point in paying the premium. if you want OSX, get a hackintosh and save yourself lots of $$

form factor? eh, i guess, but i prefer having the tower - it's more accessible if you want or need to change out parts, and you can modify things (ie, get better coolers)

 

[Oil]

I prefer the OS but not the hardware. Thinking about building a Hackintosh someday

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
what if i need more then 4 gig of ram in your setup? a second processor? i didn't see that in your build. mac pro uses a 5000x based board, i believe.

half a billion vs 300 million. nice play on words. say it 500 million vs 300 million, not that much. u r clever, not me.

and you are right, there are gamers that make money off gaming. are they more then 25% of the microsoft windows pc user base? most gamers do it for fun.

i didn't say there were not good alternatives to mac software, i think avid is a great package for video, and pro tools is not bad, and 8 is supposed to be better. but...


and back to newegg. we are back to the do it yourself market. i'd love to see you spec a workstation from dell at the same as the base mac pro.

and i checked newegg too.

the E5440 harpertown runs 738.00
the macpro uses the 5462
so 738x2 is 1476

dual lga 771 motherboards run about 300 bucks. i'm at 1776 now
starts adding up fast if you do a fair comparison of similar items.

never said two processors made things faster, but with leverage it sure does help rendering and processing video.
pushing calculations it makes things a lot smoother.

Then install 8GB in the PC. Apple charges a huge markup per extra GB of RAM, further solidifying my point. You do NOT need a second processor; if you do, then you should be purchasing server hardware, not Mac Pros. Your PC needs two processors as much as a fish needs a bicycle.

Half a billion actually sounds like less than 300 million. You've gotten your marketing concepts all switched around. In any case, you've conceded this point.

Of course I'm right, that's because I don't use a Mac. Are the people who make money off of video and photo editing more than 25% of the Mac user base? No

You'd rather I go to Dell for the comparison? I gave you a huge benefit by going to Alienware, a company notorious for its ludicrous markups. Why would you want me to go to an even more affordable provider? Are you just a troll or do you actually have no idea what you're talking about?

Two processors may help rendering, but I've never seen a benchmark that places performance gains above 25% for having that second processor in even the most heavy loads. You may as well burn a big pile of money.

Remember, this is Mac vs PC, not Mac vs high-end server (in which case the high-end server will always win on every front).

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: theblackbox

Originally posted by: Duddy
I love Apple.

But of course, I'm a Starbucks fan as well.

All about the image to me. I'm shallow, but not clueless. I quad boot Vista, Ubuntu, XP and OSX.

funny, thats how i have mine set up

OS X
Vista 64
XP
Ubuntu 8.10

the only thing about ubuntu is i haven't really found a use for it, i'd like to find more use for linux, but honestly besides the internet and free word processing haven't really dug that deep to find a good use for it. i'd like to, and become more familiar, but i just haven't

Ubuntu is really only useful above other operating systems if you're coding or scripting. If you're using software in OS X, Vista 64, etc. that isn't compatible in Ubuntu, then there's not much you can do about that unfortunately. Wine isn't nearly good enough for linux to be considered a real alternative for the occasional Windows-only program.

 

[takeru]

its pretty much established already that the only reason to actually own a mac is osx. either you like the programs there or you need it for work. apple knows this already. they call their macs "appliances" for a reason. you are buying osx when you buy a mac. osx is hardware locked to macs since they want to force you to buy their hardware to run osx. if you look at the license agreement for osx, there is a clause there saying to not run osx on anything but a mac. how else could apple force you to buy their macs? if osx can natively run on anything pc based, their profits would be much much lower. if adobe ever gives their products full linux support, that would take away a good amount of users from apple as well.

so... put simply, hardware being besides the point now, osx is the only reason to buy a mac. you need it for work? fine. you like the little programs osx has? fine. everyone knows you don't really buy osx for games anyway.

the true gripe really is because apple makes osx proprietary on purpose and bashes windows to get more users with hype, and inflated cost (magical apple tax?) is a thing too.

 

[Inferno0032]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: venkman

Originally posted by: marketsons1985

Originally posted by: venkman
I've never owned a Mac, but I've used them extensively at work.

Some of My Reasons
---------------
-They crashed a LOT more than my self built XP machine ever did. I would get that beach ball of death at least once a day while doing nothing more than running the web browser.

-I've had my Macbook for a year, and had maybe, two crashes? My Vista desktop crashes at least 3 times a week. Guess you're just unlucky.

-I guess you are unlucky with Vista. My Vista laptop has crashed maybe twice since I've owned it (Feb 2008).

I've been running Vista on my home PC since launch day (got a copy at one of the Vista launch programs they did around the country), and I've only had 2 instances where I had to reboot my computer due to quirkiness. They weren't full-fledged crashes, but enough was messed up where stuff wasn't running right, so a reboot was required to fix it. That's just 2 times in almost 2 years.

I've had my laptop with Vista for 6 months, and no issues whatsoever.

Vista is the best OS I've ever used, hands down.

Had my HP laptop for over a year and a half, not a single crash, and dont remember a time when I "had" to reboot due to any failure on the end of the OS, and it runs 24/7, just goes to sleep at night, and hibernates every once in awhile. I don't mind.

Going to have to agree with what alot of people have said, it's the entire "elitist" that just gives me a sour taste in my mouth that I have a psychological connection to now. To put it as an analogy, it's like they (Fanboys) are all like that annoying, spoiled, snobby-ass kid who is never wrong, and everything he has is better than your. I think their products are "nifty," but I'm not willing to pay more for a few features which i see get worn thin pretty quick and lose their "pizazz."

So I'd have to say it's more the stigma I feel goes along with Apple stuff, and Apple fans' absolutely unwavering "Godsend" attitude towards apple stuff that turns me off, along with the pricing of the products.

I also agree on the MP3 player front, that for a long time, the iPod was, rather undoubtedly, the best MP3 player on the market, but now I believe there are so many comparable, better products out there, and many times for a much lower price, I've had wonderful experiences with Creative, iRiver, and Zunes. Although the iPods were nice, i found it amusing how there seemed to be a 1.5-2 year lifetime to the iPods, and people would continually keep rebuying the same product after the same problems arose, ie either battery going to crap, or the hard drive failing.

 

[zerocool84]

-I don't like their way of advertising. They'd rather attack then talk about their own products.
-Having to pay so much money for "upgrades" to the OS. There are new features but they charge too much for it.
-Lockdown on software/hardware.
-Slow to implement updates/features but this goes hand in hand with lockdown on software/hardware.
-Smugness of most owners
-There are many cheaper/more featured options for mp3 players

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I'd just like to make a quick point regarding the price of Macs and PCs. It's been pretty well shown in this thread that a PC can be bought for a fraction of the cost of the equivalent Mac. We should also consider, when was the last time anyone here ever paid retail price for a PC? Every time I have ever purchased a PC (and this goes for most of my friends, too), I bought it at a discounted price. You'd have to be nuts to go to Dell.com and purchase a PC at retail price, because Dell hardly goes a month without some crazy sale.

On the other hand, it's very hard to pick up a Mac on special. They simply never run decent specials. So the price difference is actually much larger than the simplistic examples shown in this thread.