So you think the other camp didn't play dirty?

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RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
I still don't get John's article.

Dave found out about AEG and exposed it. It was a secret group in which "rollo" was included. The rest of the group clearly knew about rollo and his antics. Clearly this was fine with them.

Then the whole thing happened and now John feels bad for how Chris was treated. Well John, guilty by association. One bad apple spoils the bunch or use whatever else analogy that works for you. Point is, when you're enterting a secret partnership with a marketing company and one of your members is downright obnoxious with their dealings in the community, don't be suprised when you also get slammed after the program is publicized.

First, there is NO need to such secrecy unless it is to manipulate the word of mouth. You'd think Chris would pick up on this and ask "why don't we just put AEG/Nvidia focus group member/beta tester" right? I mean really "tell it all, tell it now!!!" Why the secrecy? Reading the AEG site and it's mission statement, stealing the word of mouth was clearly a goal. So perhaps Chris wasn't very good at that job (actually he was by being really helpful on various forums, including rage3d). In the end, Chris also got a job offering for Nvidia. All in all, I'd say he's networked himself quite nicely by his association.

It took me all of about 2weeks to figure out that Dave really likes Ati for whatever reason. Most people have a preference, mainly because we're human and not robots. Him getting a job for his knowledge and close contacts with Ati certainly doesn't put in in the same boat as rollo and the rest of the AEG group. If Dave was the head of some secret Ati group while the EIC at B3D, then by all means, let's hang him! Frankly, I don't know what the message of the blog is. If you're saying Dave, by having his bias for Ati was wrong to expose AEG, then I simply can't agree. Also, as I recall, Dave never officially commented one way or another. Since he was EIC, he could just as well have banned all of them.

 

RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Originally posted by: ronnn
Share your deep reading and thoughts about this than. My reading has shown me that 4 individuals were being paid by nvidia to promote nvidia and discredit ati. 3 of them were on b3d, which I must admit does discredit that forum somewhat, but did not seem to effect their excellent reviews that appear unbiased to me.

You'll find no evidence of Baumann's bias in his reviews. He was usually very careful to appear unbiased in reviews and articles (and in the case of the nv40 review where he did have a go at nvidia, he was persuaded (forced perhaps) by JR to edit the offending bits.

Even in the forums his bias was carefully disguised. Baumann was quite the master of weasel words and stacking arguments cleverly.

If you go look, you'll see what I mean - of course some have no interest in taking such a look...

As for the forum conduct, Baumann owned the site. It was within his power to cleanup (and keep clean) the forums - he failed to do that (there was a debate on the state of the forums in the forums and Baumann basically refused to do anything about the problem).

If Baumann ever tires of the graphics game I'm certain he would find instant employment as a political advisor/spinster. If it were possible for Shrub to be re-elected president I'm sure he could do worse than utilize Baumann's obvious skills.

So basically you're just upset that he's smarter than you and you could never find a way to "expose" him?
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: RobertR1
I still don't get John's article.

It would seem that Baumann (or whoever) was reading people's private messages. That he may have been working at the request of ATI and that his reward in the end was a full time job at ATI.

As you said one bad apple spoils the bunch, so B3D is that bunch.
 

RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: RobertR1
I still don't get John's article.

It would seem that Baumann (or whoever) was reading people's private messages. That he may have been working at the request of ATI and that his reward in the end was a full time job at ATI.

As you said one bad apple spoils the bunch, so B3D is that bunch.

Pete, who got the AEG info and passed that PM onto Dave, clearly outlined what happened, in detail. Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.

Well a lot of people thought AEG was a "Conspiracy Theory". Although I doubt B3D will ever come clean on ATI's involvement with the site or why Baumann was hired.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
why *should* they ?

Oh I agree. B3D has locked both threads on the subject, so they are certainly afraid of something. I'm sure we will never know what.
 

John Reynolds

Member
Dec 6, 2005
119
0
0
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.

Which is just a personal theory of your own, isn't it. I've been accused in the B3D IRC of a bit of revisionism and while I'm not going to air the particulars since I really don't care I will say that I was threatened to have my PMs read over a fairly minor incident several years back. Contrast that with an EIC who was very frustrated with secret focus members always, in his opinion, trying to tilt threads on his site's board in the direction and/or favor of their 'parent' company and is it really that hard to believe that PMs were being read? And whether or not Dave initially learned of the focus group from reading PMs or scoped out its membership and member activities is in my mind splitting hairs. Interesting to me that the current staff locked the thread on the message board while the conversation continued in the IRC channel, with threats toward me being issued by a few participating in the discussion.

Personally, as naive as this may sound, I didn't expect my blog post to turn into a little online soap opera since it has maybe 2-3 readers. I wanted to get a few things off my chest, not execute a vendetta against a particular person or site. Trust me, I could drop far larger bombs that would probably shock the hell out of those who've been around for the past decade if I felt so inclined but have no interest in doing so. This topic can die ASAP as far as I'm concerned and I'm going to log back into LOTRO and see if my hobbit hunter can hit 20th level tonight.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: John Reynolds
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.

Which is just a personal theory of your own, isn't it. I've been accused in the B3D IRC of a bit of revisionism and while I'm not going to air the particulars since I really don't care I will say that I was threatened to have my PMs read over a fairly minor incident several years back. Contrast that with an EIC who was very frustrated with secret focus members always, in his opinion, trying to tilt threads on his site's board in the direction and/or favor of their 'parent' company and is it really that hard to believe that PMs were being read? And whether or not Dave initially learned of the focus group from reading PMs or scoped out its membership and member activities is in my mind splitting hairs. Interesting to me that the current staff locked the thread on the message board while the conversation continued in the IRC channel, with threats toward me being issued by a few participating in the discussion.

Personally, as naive as this may sound, I didn't expect my blog post to turn into a little online soap opera since it has maybe 2-3 readers. I wanted to get a few things off my chest, not execute a vendetta against a particular person or site. Trust me, I could drop far larger bombs that would probably shock the hell out of those who've been around for the past decade if I felt so inclined but have no interest in doing so. This topic can die ASAP as far as I'm concerned and I'm going to log back into LOTRO and see if my hobbit hunter can hit 20th level tonight.
OK ... i am really curious ... now ... before i wasn't so much so ....
why "now" ... why did you need to "get a few things off my chest" ?


as to the last part [before the hobbit mention] - i seriously doubt it
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: John Reynolds
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.

Which is just a personal theory of your own, isn't it. I've been accused in the B3D IRC of a bit of revisionism and while I'm not going to air the particulars since I really don't care I will say that I was threatened to have my PMs read over a fairly minor incident several years back. Contrast that with an EIC who was very frustrated with secret focus members always, in his opinion, trying to tilt threads on his site's board in the direction and/or favor of their 'parent' company and is it really that hard to believe that PMs were being read? And whether or not Dave initially learned of the focus group from reading PMs or scoped out its membership and member activities is in my mind splitting hairs. Interesting to me that the current staff locked the thread on the message board while the conversation continued in the IRC channel, with threats toward me being issued by a few participating in the discussion.

Personally, as naive as this may sound, I didn't expect my blog post to turn into a little online soap opera since it has maybe 2-3 readers. I wanted to get a few things off my chest, not execute a vendetta against a particular person or site. Trust me, I could drop far larger bombs that would probably shock the hell out of those who've been around for the past decade if I felt so inclined but have no interest in doing so. This topic can die ASAP as far as I'm concerned and I'm going to log back into LOTRO and see if my hobbit hunter can hit 20th level tonight.

Their unwillingness to discuss it in their forums, speaks volumes.
 

RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
Originally posted by: John Reynolds
Originally posted by: RobertR1
Personally, I think John got a bit inspired after watching "Conspiracy Theory" and wrote out the B3D version.

Which is just a personal theory of your own, isn't it. I've been accused in the B3D IRC of a bit of revisionism and while I'm not going to air the particulars since I really don't care I will say that I was threatened to have my PMs read over a fairly minor incident several years back. Contrast that with an EIC who was very frustrated with secret focus members always, in his opinion, trying to tilt threads on his site's board in the direction and/or favor of their 'parent' company and is it really that hard to believe that PMs were being read? And whether or not Dave initially learned of the focus group from reading PMs or scoped out its membership and member activities is in my mind splitting hairs. Interesting to me that the current staff locked the thread on the message board while the conversation continued in the IRC channel, with threats toward me being issued by a few participating in the discussion.

Personally, as naive as this may sound, I didn't expect my blog post to turn into a little online soap opera since it has maybe 2-3 readers. I wanted to get a few things off my chest, not execute a vendetta against a particular person or site. Trust me, I could drop far larger bombs that would probably shock the hell out of those who've been around for the past decade if I felt so inclined but have no interest in doing so. This topic can die ASAP as far as I'm concerned and I'm going to log back into LOTRO and see if my hobbit hunter can hit 20th level tonight.


Don't be such a tease John. With the R600 delayed to the 14th, we have plenty of time for more

I agree with you that Dave was likely quite frustrated with those users and might have gone as far as reading PM's by manipulating the software. However, it's you saying he did and him saying he didn't, with Pete backing him up. So, to me, that's a wash. What's really sad is that all of the previous drama could have been avoided by the group members declaring their affiliation from inception. So I'm glad they were outed but if it took reading PM's, then I do have an issue with that. Ofcourse, we'll never get official confirmation.

As for people threating you in IRC, well, that's just pitiful. You have every right speak on what you felt occured.

edit: while I do have an issue if PM's are being read, in the case of outing a company like AEG, I have no qualms about whatever tactics are required.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
i *hate* people like that ... they *bring it up*

cause a big ruckus ...


then say, "i don't want to talk about it?"
WtF?



glad *you* feel better

:roll:



:laugh:
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Originally posted by: n7
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
Originally posted by: n7
Drama drama drama :music:
Not to take away from your apt analysis, but...

Some scientific inquiry has been conducted on this subject. Cyclic forum dysfunction, or CFD, as it has come to be called, is a well-known yet rather rare disease affecting people who experience a significant amount of online social interaction, such as AT forumers. Research has been slow but fairly productive. There is no known cure, except abstention, yet people remain hopeful.

Victims of CFD are characterized by a perpetual desperation to feel strong emotions. Normally, to deal with the intense sense of desperation, they will work themselves up into outrage or fear and then triumphantly post how outraged, vindicated, or afraid they are over that topic. Knowledge of the subject matter seems tangential at best since the mistakes provide other CFD victims with the chance to counter misinformation with their own desperation through similar--but always "superior"--vitriol.

The desperation appears, in many cases, to be the manifestation of a deep but subconscious guilt or embarassment over the infantessimal importance of the topics and, to some small degree, their own lives, for having invested so much time in feeding the disease.

Strangely, these proudly dysfunctional people talk past each other, ignoring each others' emotive misaccomplishments. This, in turn, creates new injustices that serve as additional opportunities for forumers to display their various dysfunctions. It is like a group of circus clowns, each so focused on fixing their own dilemmas that they fail to recognize their "solutions" are perpetually causing each other's problems.

Put in a more positive light, it is an endless circle of life: the trolls' injustices feed the antitrolls with "reasons" for witch-hunts whilst taking a perverted delight in the comical manner with which the antitrolls become conspicuously oblivious to both the havoc they themselves wreak on the forum and the fact that the trolls are quite smugly feeding off the havoc. The appearance of mutual dependency has lead some to suspect that CFD may merely be a new form of "forum life" and not, in fact, a social dysfunction.

Occasionally, when frustration increases to a certain level, both sides will switch roles. The antitrolls will bait the trolls, who will, in turn, smite the antitrolls. Oddly, whether engaged in trolling or antitrolling, a forumer never seems to comprehend his/her part in the destruction although each troll and antitroll seems to gain a heightened awareness of the other's dysfunctions. This "tunnel vision" may last a lifetime--and often does.

Continued exposure to cyclic forum dysfunction has few known consequences, but most are relatively benign, affecting only those already inflicted with CFD. Often, victims may demonstrate chronic frustration and/or obsession over relatively trivial subjects such as RAM nomenclature, grammatical errors, use of smilies, choice of avatar names, and CFD-related threads (such as this one).

In extremely rare cases, CFD may lead to loss of life. Although the exact cause of death has never been properly isolated, scientifically speaking, indisputable fact tells us that some of those who engage in CFD flamewars are simply never heard from again. Depending on the custom of the forum, victims who have engaged in such practices immediately before disappearing are sometimes honored by placing the word "banned" by the individual's name, apparently as a last token of fond rememberance. The thread in which the victim fell is often "locked"--whether to prevent others from falling as well, or simply in honor of the dead, is kept secret. "Moderators" often warn forumers not to speak ill of the banned--or, in fact, to say anything at all.

On the rarest of occasions, locking one thread may not be enough. Increased incidence of CFD-related deaths in rapid succession may cause the discussion to branch out into multiple related threads, often involving many other victims. Even "locking" a thread has been known to trigger latent CFD symptoms even in seemingly normal people. In such cases, moderators may have no other choice but to lock all such threads and counsel certain of the more vocal victims via a mysterious superforumal communication device known as a "PM" or by leaving sufficiently-trite, disciplinary messages in victim's "signatures." (The latter is thought to be derived from shock therapy.)

The greatest problem with CFD diagnosis remains its indirect relevance to much of the outside world. Socially, victims exist within a "bubble" in which emotional stimuli are both created and consumed almost exclusively by actions and reactions within the bubble.

The forum exists to serve as a dynamic knowledge base of helpful information for those using video cards. Yet CFD symptoms never manifest when using video cards for any other reason than to engage in CFD-related discussions. As a result, regular forumers tend to avoid such discussions, and the world outside the forum is likewise almost never affected by such problems.

Sadly, this apathy effectively abandons many CFD victims to continue seeking respect only from those whom they most despise--each other. Their arguments continue without end, hopping from topic to topic, thread to thread, constantly seeking new insults, quips, and reprisals with which to engage battles for which there is no victory.

Despite these problems, there remains a fundamental disconnect between the world outside the bubble and the world inside the bubble. Those trapped within the bubble may be engaged in "crusades" that have no impact--and seemingly, no purpose--on the outside world. During interactions between the two worlds, the CFD victim will see his/her world burning in flames, his/her reputation assailed by countless demons (often called fanboys, although the etymology remains baffling), etc. while a normal person will merely see distraught individuals, in a tranquil field, obsessed trading mock blows over imaginary problems. For the CFD victim, perception and realitiy are one and the same.

In truth, if the CFD victims unknowingly met in the real world, without discussing "video" topics, they would likely coexist peaceably--or at least as well as any two normal people. This disorder remains almost exclusively in the online portion of one's life. No data has yet determined whether the disorder will evolve and threaten the victim's "real life."

The root cause of CFD itself remains a mystery, but it has been likened to substance abuse, the term "forum abuse" having been adopted by moderators in lieu of a more scientific term. In accordance with this hypothesis, "temporary banning" is sometimes used to enforce short abstinence in victims who appear to be headed past the "point of no return." It has also been speculated that the sight of the word "banned" next to the victim's name is another form of shock therapy.

Analysis of CFD treatment has been somewhat hampered by the facts that (a) no one actually knows each other, (b) no victim is aware of his/her condition, and (c) nobody really cares. Unfortunately, little work is being done to overcome these limitations.

In the field of virtual CFD therapy, as in any new field of treatment, the community as a whole has regarded the "treatments" with thinly veiled suspicion. Opinions range from mild suspicion about hidden moderator agendas to wild conspiracy theories tying moderators and GPU designers into an unholy union fraught with slippery slopes, "bannage," and "bad PR." Some, who may or may not themselves be suffering from CFD, have even gone so far as to accuse "other forums'" moderators of using the condition as an excuse for personal vendettas, that somehow moderators are behind the killing (i.e. banning) of certain forum personalities.

No thanks to a lack of funding, ongoing research has revealed that periodic exposure to something CFD victims blankly refer to as "real life" can bring some relief from the tension and need for mental self-degradation. Full cessation of online socialization may, in fact, be too demanding for many victims, so it is recommended that they be worked into this gradually. And while there are legitimate reasons for online congregation, and while incidence of CFD-related forum abuse is slim, clearly, we must think of the children.

Just say NO to forums. :thumbsdown:



LOL! :laugh:


Post of the year :thumbsup:

I'll second that.
I doubt everyone took the time to read the whole thing, very well done though. :thumbsup:

 

nullpointerus

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2003
1,326
0
0
Originally posted by: Agent11
Originally posted by: n7
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
Originally posted by: n7
Drama drama drama :music:
Not to take away from your apt analysis, but...

Some scientific inquiry has been conducted on this subject. Cyclic forum dysfunction, or CFD, as it has come to be called, is a well-known yet rather rare disease affecting people who experience a significant amount of online social interaction...

(snipped)


LOL! :laugh:


Post of the year :thumbsup:

I'll second that.
I doubt everyone took the time to read the whole thing, very well done though. :thumbsup:

Hey, thanks!

I'm really glad you guys responded. There's nothing quite so bad as telling a joke and then waiting idly by while the whole room stands in tense silence...not "getting it"...and then throwing rotten fruit.

I think some people took it the "wrong" way... It was intended as self-deprecating humor for the entire forum--*myself* included--but was apparently misinterpreted as an attack on some individuals. But at least it made some people happy; that was the only point.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Originally posted by: John Reynolds

Which is just a personal theory of your own, isn't it. I've been accused in the B3D IRC of a bit of revisionism and while I'm not going to air the particulars since I really don't care I will say that I was threatened to have my PMs read over a fairly minor incident several years back. Contrast that with an EIC who was very frustrated with secret focus members always, in his opinion, trying to tilt threads on his site's board in the direction and/or favor of their 'parent' company and is it really that hard to believe that PMs were being read? And whether or not Dave initially learned of the focus group from reading PMs or scoped out its membership and member activities is in my mind splitting hairs. Interesting to me that the current staff locked the thread on the message board while the conversation continued in the IRC channel, with threats toward me being issued by a few participating in the discussion.

Personally, as naive as this may sound, I didn't expect my blog post to turn into a little online soap opera since it has maybe 2-3 readers. I wanted to get a few things off my chest, not execute a vendetta against a particular person or site. Trust me, I could drop far larger bombs that would probably shock the hell out of those who've been around for the past decade if I felt so inclined but have no interest in doing so. This topic can die ASAP as far as I'm concerned and I'm going to log back into LOTRO and see if my hobbit hunter can hit 20th level tonight.

I imagine you want this to end, as you have accused Dave Bauman of working for ati (while editor of b3d) and by doing so making the life of ChrisRay and others uncomfortable by wrecking their reputation. Accusations like that should be backed up with fact.

 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
John Reynolds responding to Rollo June 12/05 The tune has changed.
_____________________________________________________________________________


quote:
Originally posted by: Rollo
All you, Elite Bastards, or anyone else has is a link to a marketing company's client list and speculation about what services are being provided for what clients.

In other words, you have nothing. Tough break, conspiracy theorists.



Actually, you're wrong. More information about the program is known than what you realize or perhaps you wouldn't be sitting back acting so cocky and arrogant right now. Ever hear of Deep Throat? This little story has one. (Edit: or so I've been told)

Oh my.





quote:
Originally posted by: Rollo
"Cocky and arrogant" - meh.
You hold nothing over me John. Save your threats for someone who cares.



Was hardly a threat. Just a rebuttal to your burning desire to spin this entire situation as the work of conspiracy theorists with nothing to go on. Is everything that doesn't gel with your viewpoint automatically anti-NVIDIA? If ATI were caught doing something like this my reaction would be identical. . .it's too close to propaganda for my tastes because of its covert nature. Were the program and its members made freely public, that would be different.

quote:
You should watch your step around some here though, as a guy who gets free AMD and Intel products, you are probably considered some sort of public enemy by some here.



By that logic every hardware reviewer is now the equivalent of a member of this program, including Anand and his staff. There is a world of difference between a reviewer receiving review samples, testing them, and presenting the results of those tests in public articles and viral marketing that legally binds its members to deny its existence such as this program apparently does.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Link
_______________________________________________________________________

Can't blame Dave Bauman for this thread.

 

geo1

Member
Apr 28, 2005
41
0
0
I'm pretty sure all John wanted, and all I wanted, was a little bit of sunshine. It was everyone else who went apeshit over it, from Penny Arcade on. Isn't it odd that having broke this story into public, its people like he and I who've then spent a lot of time defending Chris Ray and Ailurus and Chalnoth in the period since. (well, okay, "not so much" on Rollo, I admit. . . )

Anyone who is torqued off that the B3D thread is locked is of course free to be torqued off about it. Any direct participant in the controversy is free to give their side there, and we'll be happy to open the thread for that purpose (Derek Perez, this means you too --how about it? Arbuthnot would be welcome as well, but their domain seems to have reverted at this point), as the current owners post on the matter should have made clear. Current management, the site having changed hands in the interim, feels no need to have that thread open for fanboy wars re shill, shill, who's the shill they're all shills no ones a shill. These forums here are plenty suitable for that purpose.
 
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