So you wanted the age of digital delivery...

[lupi]

And this could be your result.


https://games.yahoo.com/news/sony-wont-refund-ps4-user-163400893.html

Sony will only refund $150 of the $600 that was taken.
The money will be in PSN credit, and not refunded into the bank.
If the user escalates the payment dispute with his bank, his account will be banned.
If his account is banned, his purchased licences for games, such as The Last of Us Remastered, will be wiped.
If the licences are wiped, there is no way of restoring them.

 

[Cerb]

If it was due to the hack, that sounds like time for escalation to AGs and related officials. I don't get the thing about closing the account, though. That makes no sense whatsoever, unless one can create a new account to replace it within a short period of time.

 

[Riceninja]

that's the problem with all digital platforms, even steam.

i -never- keep my credit card on file at any of these companies for this exact reason.

 

[master_shake_]

charge back everything and join the glorious pc maser race

also those threats from sony are just that, threats.

get a lawyer involved too.

 

[lupi]

If it was due to the hack, that sounds like time for escalation to AGs and related officials. I don't get the thing about closing the account, though. That makes no sense whatsoever, unless one can create a new account to replace it within a short period of time.

it's how they prevent people from trying to use chargebacks as a form of customer service.

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

You know typically when these stories come out it's centered around certain companies. Valve is a company that has proven to be pretty user focused (after all more users more money) vs. other companies agendas. I suggest people vote with their wallet so these companies that screw them can suffer for providing such a subpar service.

 

[escrow4]

that's the problem with all digital platforms, even steam.

i -never- keep my credit card on file at any of these companies for this exact reason.

I never bothered with a credit card. Cash only and if I must do online the account only has a few dollars at best anyway when I'm not buying anything. Screw Sony too, and you wonder why people pirate.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Many lawmakers are already anti-gamer because of their violence in entertainment agenda. Which is unfortunate, because allowing gaming companies to ban as a form of retaliation is just one of the abuses that should be prevented. Also, corrupt GMs who ban for in-game politics, power trips, or placing blame on players for exploits whose existence is the fault of the gaming company. (Some exploits are obvious, some are not, but they are all the responsibility of the gaming company.)

 

[ronbo613]

I just got finished with a battle with Valve/Steam over games I purchased but was unable to access. Not a single response from Steam support for more than two months. Luckily, I was able to dispute the charges with PayPal and get my money back.

After experiencing console and PC gaming, I would say that these game developers and vendors treat gamers like sheet because the gamers allow them to do it. "They'll do better next time", "All new games have bugs", "There will be a patch", "They are doing the best they can", etc. What a bunch of bull. DRM = Digital Rights Monopoly. No competition means poor quality products, higher prices and poor customer service. Blame for game piracy rests solely on the shoulders of the gaming industry. Satisfy your customers and they won't have a need to go elsewhere.

 

[Lonyo]

You know typically when these stories come out it's centered around certain companies. Valve is a company that has proven to be pretty user focused (after all more users more money) vs. other companies agendas. I suggest people vote with their wallet so these companies that screw them can suffer for providing such a subpar service.

Eh?
It's pretty much the same story internet-wide that Valve has terrible customer service and most people hope they will never need to make use of it.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Eh?
It's pretty much the same story internet-wide that Valve has terrible customer service and most people hope they will never need to make use of it.

Yea I had to spend three hours and go through seven customer service reps to get a refund on a game that did not work and the only reason the seventh person was able to get me the refund is because i was able to name a different account that received one AND i had an account with over 200 games on it. Even then they only gave me money into my steam wallet and said they would not refund a game for me in the future.

 

[MeldarthX]

You know typically when these stories come out it's centered around certain companies. Valve is a company that has proven to be pretty user focused (after all more users more money) vs. other companies agendas. I suggest people vote with their wallet so these companies that screw them can suffer for providing such a subpar service.

Are you joking?? trying to get a refund out of Valve or steam is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

You know what's scary; Origin now has better customer service than steam ever has...

 

[PrincessFrosty]

This is why it's bad to become locked into proprietary formats like the consoles. Let's get something straight, if you did this with something like Steam or Origin you could easily take the game files, grab a crack and continue playing the vast majority of your games, certainly with something DRM free like GoG you don't even need that.

All you can do with this is vote with your feet.

If I was this guy I'd do a credit card charge back, let them delete his shit, post about it on reddit and hopefully get this into the news to get Sony some bad PR press.

Then abandon the console platform and get a PC and use steam/gog or whatever.

For what it's worth I have 500 games on steam now and the one time I've had a problem with a game not working they've refunded it for me with no quarrels, even though they have no obligation to. Valves support is kinda slow but they've always been fair to me.

I do have a PS3 but I'm on the fence with the next gen consoles, I really dislike that the entire system is proprietary, they can just ban accounts and brick consoles remotely, that's not cool at all.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I dont see what method the user paid with to Sony. If he used a credit card or debit card linked to his account, the bank or credit card company should refund/invalidate the purchases, not Sony. The problem I see with Sony is that they should not ban the account for taking the fraudulent charges to the next level.

It wasnt through a gaming site, but I had nearly 1000 dollars charged on a credit card due to a hack, and the company invalidated the charges and issued me a new card without problems.

 

[lupi]

I dont see what method the user paid with to Sony. If he used a credit card or debit card linked to his account, the bank or credit card company should refund/invalidate the purchases, not Sony. The problem I see with Sony is that they should not ban the account for taking the fraudulent charges to the next level.

If the user escalates the payment dispute with his bank, his account will be banned.

 

[gradoman]

It's a concern I always keep in the back of my mind, but I've grown pretty lazy with pc related stuff. Can't be bothered to even try overclocking anymore. Steam sales pretty much balance out, in my admittedly limited thinking, the fact that if poop hit the fan with them, I'd probably be screwed. Customer support is non-existent with Valve/Steam.

 

[xantub]

I dont see what method the user paid with to Sony. If he used a credit card or debit card linked to his account, the bank or credit card company should refund/invalidate the purchases, not Sony. The problem I see with Sony is that they should not ban the account for taking the fraudulent charges to the next level.

It wasnt through a gaming site, but I had nearly 1000 dollars charged on a credit card due to a hack, and the company invalidated the charges and issued me a new card without problems.

This is the real point of the problem. There is no problem with having your credit card on file (for reputable companies), if there is a situation, you can just call your CC and dispute your charges.
The problem in this case was that the person used prepaid debit card instead of a credit card. Big mistake.

 

[chimaxi83]

This banning of account for disputing/reversing charges has been known for quite a while, hasn't it? Especially with Valve.

 

[sweenish]

yahoo games?

I'm surprised that they were actually kind of quick to pick this up from reddit. They're still a joke, though.

 

[EDUSAN]

what i dont get is why isthis for...

has anything happened wth psn lately?

 

[darkewaffle]

I can't really put this on Sony. There's no evidence (as far as I saw) that they were responsible for the compromise and them even offering $150 refund is pretty generous when it isn't their problem. And while threatening to ban the account for disputing the charges through other channels isn't a good look you can't really blame them for doing the same thing the user is trying to do - not take a loss.

 

[CPA]

charge back everything and join the glorious pc maser race

also those threats from sony are just that, threats.

get a lawyer involved too.

I wouldn't get a lawyer. Just file in small claims court, present everything and I'm betting a sympathetic judge would easily rule in his favor. It will help that Sony would probably not send any representation to the hearing. Then take your verdict and send it to Sony.

 

[CPA]

It's a concern I always keep in the back of my mind, but I've grown pretty lazy with pc related stuff. Can't be bothered to even try overclocking anymore. Steam sales pretty much balance out, in my admittedly limited thinking, the fact that if poop hit the fan with them, I'd probably be screwed. Customer support is non-existent with Valve/Steam.

Just a thought. His PS4 can't be registered under his current account because a different PS4 is not registered under that account, so how about getting the chargeback from the bank and setting up a brand new account with his PS4. Admittedly, I don't know much about Sony's account management on the back end, so not sure if this is possible.

 

[Super56K]

This banning of account for disputing/reversing charges has been known for quite a while, hasn't it? Especially with Valve.

Absolutely. They have all the power and authority in the matter. It sometimes doesn't take long to realize your last resort is a CC charge back because, trusted company or not, not getting what you paid for is no different to the consumer. Come out on the wrong end of that (and pretty much everyone does, because CC charge backs cost them money), and you're at the mercy of whining/complaining via social media or popular gaming related websites in the hopes that it catches on and someone reaches out to you to make it right (read: make it go away).

Also, it's insane to me that the way these companies operate is to revoke all access to previously purchased games when an account is banned. It's like a really bad joke and just shows how much a person gives up to "own" a game on Steam or PSN.

 

[destrekor]

I can't really put this on Sony. There's no evidence (as far as I saw) that they were responsible for the compromise and them even offering $150 refund is pretty generous when it isn't their problem. And while threatening to ban the account for disputing the charges through other channels isn't a good look you can't really blame them for doing the same thing the user is trying to do - not take a loss.

Here's what I think is the appropriate route:

file a dispute with the payment processor, saying that an account was hijacked and good were purchased without his awareness.

In the end, Sony loses nothing. If the bank goes after Sony to get that money back (and the bank would also tell the card holder to go through Sony first, since it is their store), Sony is still out nothing, save for profit they should never have received. They aren't giving anything extra.

Why they threaten his account status and a total loss of all legitimate content is beyond me. That's a nasty scare tactic. I'd try escalating that as hard as I could, and hopefully the internet response is enough to get Sony to do the right thing.


Digital goods do indeed scare me, because everyone is operating under the idea that these goods are like permanent rentals, where we do not fully own the license. I still buy a lot online because disc-based DRM sucks even more, but I can't say it doesn't worry me a little bit.