Social Reproduction

[borosp1]

In my opinion on poverty in the US as whole is its all about social reproduction. Basically poor people are always going to be poor because their schools are below standards of other more affluent districts, single parent homes, and low paying jobs, and high unemployment rates all contribute to social reproduction.

Basically there are always going to be stories of a small percentage getting out of the hood life and making in society, but on a whole the odds are against these people to make it. It?s the same reason why rich people always stay rich and there kids are rich. It?s a combination of who you know, social upbringing, quality of schools, etc...

A potential solution to part of the problem is change the way public schools are funded. If the affluent school got the same funding as the poor school then they can at least compete on the same level. Its a shame when they pay teachers sh!t in poor neighborhoods and don?t have money to buy adequate technology like PCs or projection screens which are prevalent throughout any high school in the suburbs of America.

In American Society we have a huge problem of social reproduction.

 

[T3C]

Poor people are not always going to be poor if they work hard. LOTS of people who started off poor now live comfortable lives. This does not mean million dollar houses and such. But a decent house, food on the table, not having to worry about paying bills or money. Its all about the individual person and how hard they work at what they want.

 

[luigi1]

Before I moved to Cleveland I would have aggreed with you. I've been here about 6 years now and have met some supperising individuals who have pulled them selves out of the getto. I guess the most suprising case is a former crack addict who kicked the habit and started a morgage company. He spends some of his free time in detox talking the people through there withdrawals. He says it helps him remember. The truth is you can not tell by looking at a person or by looking at there parents or where they came from or what they did last year. The only way to judge them is to get to know them. And thats the truth.

 

[Zebo]

Our biggest mistake is giving free anything. With some personality types it creates sloth. I'm all for welfare, jobs programs and detox centers and the like and even greaty increased benefits which now I consider just above starvation, but only if work and/or progress is shown.

Work that needs to be done. Inner cities are fithy, clean them up. Farmers and contractors don't need illegals make aid receipants work for the check..etc etc etc/

 

[slyedog]

blacks are like whites.and whites are like blacks, they work hard and they strive to get ahead. they have ambitions. but it is the NI&GERS(they come in all colors and races) that are pulling the US down. and it is really showing up down south now. not something that everybody does not know but something most people dont want to admit.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I like the idea of privitizing all of the schools and giving each child several grand in tuition. That would encourage schools to perform better b/c they would lose funding if they did a poor job and didn't get enough students. It also opens up every school to EVERYONE. Instead of having it where poorer sections of towns have crappier schools.

Another reason that many of the poor end up staying in the same tax bracket as their parents/grandparents is because the poor generally have no (or very little) to pass onto their children/grandchildren. That's one of the problems with Social Security; nothing of what you paid into it gets passed on to your children or whomever else you want to have the cash. If Social Security had at least some privitization to it, that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Dissipate]

Success just like being poor is an attitude. I don't care what kind of schools you have. You could have the best teachers with the best equipment in the world, but if the parents do not stress academics in the home, their kids will end up poor just like them.

My girlfriend is from Mexico and came from a poor town. Her family came to the U.S. with very little. But her sister has a degree in biology, her brother has a degree in mechanical engineering and she is currently a double major in math and economics. How did this happen? Simple. Even though her parents are poor (her mom is a maid at a hotel and her father is a carpenter), they stressed academics in their home and they sacrificed a lot to give their kids educational opportunities.

Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Success just like being poor is an attitude. I don't care what kind of schools you have. You could have the best teachers with the best equipment in the world, but if the parents do not stress academics in the home, their kids will end up poor just like them.

My girlfriend is from Mexico and came from a poor town. Her family came to the U.S. with very little. But her sister has a degree in biology, her brother has a degree in mechanical engineering and she is currently a double major in math and economics. How did this happen? Simple. Even though her parents are poor (her mom is a maid at a hotel and her father is a carpenter), they stressed academics in their home and they sacrificed a lot to give their kids educational opportunities.

Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.

I guessing your girlfriend and her siblings are attending a tax payer funded facility for thier education and not Stanford, Pepperdine or St. Marys so what you say is not quite true and you know it.

 

[borosp1]

I brought up this topic of social reproduction because my good friend is a teacher in the inner city of Chicago. He sees it with his own eyes how kids dont care and teachers are afraid of the kids so they just give them passing grades.

One problem is that kids in poor areas dont have a stable home to come home to after school. Most live with single parent homes where parents work sh!tty jobs sometimes 2 jobs to support the family. Well when you have a situation like that kids turn to the streets for the upbringing which gives rise to the thug lifestyle. Everything about the ghetto is for social reproduction.

You look at white rich suburbs the kids have parks and weekend activites like organized soccer or swimming. Kids are taught to be free thinkers in school by making a variety of activites or resources available.

Those in the inner city schools are taught to follow rules and regulation like the army and not given choices of activites or resources like technology at there disposal. This learning style teaches kids to be workers and not leaders like kids in the affluent schools.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Success just like being poor is an attitude. I don't care what kind of schools you have. You could have the best teachers with the best equipment in the world, but if the parents do not stress academics in the home, their kids will end up poor just like them.

My girlfriend is from Mexico and came from a poor town. Her family came to the U.S. with very little. But her sister has a degree in biology, her brother has a degree in mechanical engineering and she is currently a double major in math and economics. How did this happen? Simple. Even though her parents are poor (her mom is a maid at a hotel and her father is a carpenter), they stressed academics in their home and they sacrificed a lot to give their kids educational opportunities.

Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.

I guessing your girlfriend and her siblings are attending a tax payer funded facility for thier education and not Stanford, Pepperdine or St. Marys so what you say is not quite true and you know it.

There is no such thing as 'tax payer free' education anymore. Even the private universities are subsidized by government loans.

Get rid of sales taxes, gas taxes, the ever present inflation tax, corporate taxes, income taxes, FICA taxes and a ton of other taxes that make everything around us way more expensive than it ought to be, and I am certain her parents would have been able to fully fund her going to a private university.

In fact, if you got rid of the whole government I am fairly certain the entire economy would double or even triple within 5 years, and education would certainly would decrease in price. But I don't know if you want to go off on that hypothetical tangent.

Taking 'advantage' of state sponsorship is merely getting back a small portion of what you will be paying out to the state over the course of your lifetime, not only in direct monetary form but in lost opportunities.

 

[Zebo]

You're dreaming. Not only did we try it before and failed miserably where only the top 1-2% went into university most couldnt afford even primary education.. first of all instead of making "minimum wage" or whatever her parents make they would be paid maybe $1 an hour for that work anyone can do they may even have to put you girlfriend to work at say 6-7, that's good age for sewing.. Second they would have to buy health care instead of california and federal mandates requiring it, picked up by wealthier member of our society. Thrid They would'nt be allowed to attend most universities being female 1, dark 2. It was'nt until the mid 70's universities like harvard even allowed females under federal pressure.

Taking 'advantage' of state sponsorship is merely getting back a small portion of what you will be paying out to the state over the course of your lifetime, not only in direct monetary form but in lost opportunities.

Gimme a break, they hav'nt even made what a university education costs for three children let alone paid that much in taxes. It's about 50K a year per student.

 

[Moonbeam]

Dissipate: Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.
-----------

And you know this how? Why does one person have a successful attitude and another not? What you call the end of the story is just the place where your thinking stopped. Because you know nothing your ideas are correspondingly worthless.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Zebo
You're dreaming. Not only did we try it before and failed miserably where only the top 1-2% went into university most couldnt afford even primary education..

I have no idea what time period you are talking about.

first of all instead of making "minimum wage" or whatever her parents make they would be paid maybe $1 an hour for that work anyone can do they may even have to put you girlfriend to work at say 6-7, that's good age for sewing.. Second they would have to buy health care instead of california and federal mandates requiring it, picked up by wealthier member of our society. Thrid They would'nt be allowed to attend most universities being female 1, dark 2. It was'nt until the mid 70's universities like harvard even allowed females under federal pressure.

I cannot make any sense of your 'rebuttal.' Perhaps you might try fixing it up a bit?

Taking 'advantage' of state sponsorship is merely getting back a small portion of what you will be paying out to the state over the course of your lifetime, not only in direct monetary form but in lost opportunities.

Gimme a break, they hav'nt even made what a university education costs for three children let alone paid that much in taxes. It's about 50K a year per student.

Ever stop to wonder why education costs so much? You guessed it: government intervention. For instance, I just finished up a math class with a guy who wants to be a high school math teacher. This guy has to take math classes that have absolutely nothing to do with what he will be teaching in class, and spend thousands of dollars getting a master's degree in education.

With government out of education it would cost much less and teachers would probably be able to go through a 6 month program instead of a 6 year program. You don't need a damn master's degree to teach kids algebra and trigonometry.

 

[borosp1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.

And you know this how? Why does one person have a successful attitude and another not? What you call the end of the story is just the place where your thinking stopped. Because you know nothing your ideas are correspondingly worthless.

Well in rich neghborhoods your parents teach you to be leaders and the value of there money and how they earn it. In poor areas parents teach there kids that they need to work there a55es off to survive. Thats where there attitude about life is shaped. Not too mention the deplorable classroom envirments... Dont talk about attitude when your environment you live in is a survival of the fittest... having parents living day to day, paycheck to paycheck makes you view life and your "attitude" on life a lot differently then coming from a stable backround seeing daddy come home in his $50k Mercedes everyday.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Dissipate: Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.
-----------

And you know this how? Why does one person have a successful attitude and another not? What you call the end of the story is just the place where your thinking stopped. Because you know nothing your ideas are correspondingly worthless.

I know this because I have known poor people and I have known successful people. Why does one group have a successful attitude and the other group not? Who knows. It could be any number of reasons. But the bottom line is that they have the power to change their attitude, but pumping more money into public daycare will not change it for them or their kids.

And if I know nothing then you know less than nothing.

 

[Zebo]

I really wish you get your dream Diss.. at the turn of the 19th century there were two types of people, emminet slaves and people with access and control of capital and political capital. Much like Mexico or Chile today if you want a modern case study. Go for a loan in Chile, only whites are allowed in the door of the bank, next question is what family are you from? WTF you think her parents came here for?

Yeah attitude is very very important like 90% of anything..but equal opportunity makes that attitude live to it's fullest potential.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Dissipate: Successful people do not magically end up successful and poor people do not magically end up poor. Both are attitudes, end of story. Unfortunately, the government can not save people from bad attitudes, not with more money in the public daycare system, or in any other B.S. government program.
-----------

And you know this how? Why does one person have a successful attitude and another not? What you call the end of the story is just the place where your thinking stopped. Because you know nothing your ideas are correspondingly worthless.

I know this because I have known poor people and I have known successful people. Why does one group have a successful attitude and the other group not? Who knows. It could be any number of reasons. But the bottom line is that they have the power to change their attitude, but pumping more money into public daycare will not change it for them or their kids.

And if I know nothing then you know less than nothing.

Oh wow, you have known poor and successful people. Amazing. You are unique. Who knows you say. But that was my point. Who knows would not be you nor would you suspect that somebody might. And it's just wonderful news that people can change their attitude. How? I know you must know because you know what will not work or say you do. But about that of course also you know nothing. And yes, I know vastly less than you or one thing more.

 

[Zebo]

With government out of education it would cost much less and teachers would probably be able to go through a 6 month program instead of a 6 year program. You don't need a damn master's degree to teach kids algebra and trigonometry.

Theres some truth to that too. Everybody in every field, is trying to limit thier numbers to increase thier pay. One way is more and more education requirments.. To be an MD or a pharmacist used to be an appreticeship now 12 and 9 years expensive school respectivly. Can't blame them it's human nature. And it's also human nature from the customers prospective to want some standards codified. that's where we are.

 

[MommysLittleMonster]

Originally posted by: borosp1
In my opinion on poverty in the US as whole is its all about social reproduction. Basically poor people are always going to be poor because their schools are below standards of other more affluent districts, single parent homes, and low paying jobs, and high unemployment rates all contribute to social reproduction.

Basically there are always going to be stories of a small percentage getting out of the hood life and making in society, but on a whole the odds are against these people to make it. It?s the same reason why rich people always stay rich and there kids are rich. It?s a combination of who you know, social upbringing, quality of schools, etc...

A potential solution to part of the problem is change the way public schools are funded. If the affluent school got the same funding as the poor school then they can at least compete on the same level. Its a shame when they pay teachers sh!t in poor neighborhoods and don?t have money to buy adequate technology like PCs or projection screens which are prevalent throughout any high school in the suburbs of America.

In American Society we have a huge problem of social reproduction.

You're a little late sir. Were you expected a Nobel Peace Prize? :roll:

 

[Train]

While I agree that schools are funded unfairly, for example, in Ohio some districts spend about $15k per student, while other districts get half that. It should be closer to equal in all districts, not dependent on the local property tax. The cost of living differences is not that big in any two parts of the state.

But on the other hand school funding will not fix any problems. Some schools in poor areas spend more than thier rural counterparts, but get half the results. Then theres private schools, some of them spend less per student than even the poorest of public schools, but manage to put ~98% of thier students in college. A public school across the street could spend more than twice the money and consider getting 20% of thier graduates into college a great year. So obviously there is almost zero correlation between money spent and results, so asking for more money is not going to get you anywhere.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I really wish you get your dream Diss.. at the turn of the 19th century there were two types of people, emminet slaves and people with access and control of capital and political capital. Much like Mexico or Chile today if you want a modern case study. Go for a loan in Chile, only whites are allowed in the door of the bank, next question is what family are you from? WTF you think her parents came here for?

Yeah attitude is very very important like 90% of anything..but equal opportunity makes that attitude live to it's fullest potential.

'Political capital' is a result of the state, and Chile's banks are run by the state.

Her parents came here to give their kids better opportunities. Mexico is another place where elimination of a corrupt and repressive government would be a great boon to the economy and people's livelihoods.

Equal opportunity can never come from the state because the state is run mostly by elitists , opportunists and charismatic demagogues.

 

[Zebo]

And it's just wonderful news that people can change their attitude.

How do we do that moonie? I assume this thread is about the 200K down and outers in NO because of it's timing so lets use them as an example.

I think the answer is relativly simple, society begins to care about them and it's reciprocated. Course "care" can take many different forms. I certainly think sticking them in projects with zero expectations of them is not caring.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Zebo

And it's just wonderful news that people can change their attitude.

How do we do that moonie? I assume this thread is about the 200K down and outers in NO because of it's timing so lets use them as an example.

I think the answer is relativly simple, society begins to care about them and it's reciprocated. Course "care" can take many different forms. I certainly think sticking them in projects with zero expectations of them is not caring.

I think you are right but there is a problem. Society does not care about them so we have exactly the same problem of how to change society's attitude as we have in changing theirs. How do we change our attitude so we can change them?

One question would be do we want to?

Isn't attitude how you feel? And aren't we all the same society? Are they not our negative attitude and don't we hate them because they show us who we are? Probably I shouldn't ask as I believe this is the case and we refuse to see so. So people will say no but I think the answer is yes. So we have a rather complex problem.

They are us and we are they. And the only thing you can change is yourself. You can only change yourself but when you change yourself, yourself as the source of the problem ends. You cease to add your own negativity to the pile. So what we should do we will know when we change our attitude. Whatever we do, it will be positive. People change when they begin to believe that change is possible.

 

[Vic]

Don't know what the OP is talking about, but I started off poor. Not ghetto poor, but definitely qualifying-for-government-assistance poor. Not that way today. Wonder why? Moonie will tell you it was just luck.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Zebo

And it's just wonderful news that people can change their attitude.

How do we do that moonie? I assume this thread is about the 200K down and outers in NO because of it's timing so lets use them as an example.

I think the answer is relativly simple, society begins to care about them and it's reciprocated. Course "care" can take many different forms. I certainly think sticking them in projects with zero expectations of them is not caring.

I think you are right but there is a problem. Society does not care about them so we have exactly the same problem of how to change society's attitude as we have in changing theirs. How do we change our attitude so we can change them?

One question would be do we want to?

Isn't attitude how you feel? And aren't we all the same society? Are they not our negative attitude and don't we hate them because they show us who we are? Probably I shouldn't ask as I believe this is the case and we refuse to see so. So people will say no but I think the answer is yes. So we have a rather complex problem.

They are us and we are they. And the only thing you can change is yourself. You can only change yourself but when you change yourself, yourself as the source of the problem ends. You cease to add your own negativity to the pile. So what we should do we will know when we change our attitude. Whatever we do, it will be positive. People change when they begin to believe that change is possible.

No attitude is'nt how you feel. I'd discribe it as putting forth the effort that makes your time worth paying for....things like education/hard work/loyalty/experiance are the signatures which few of these people have IMO. Why is that and how to fix that?