Societal Ills Spike in Crisis-Stricken Greece (prostitution, teen jobless 75%+, etc)

[glenn1]

Behold the mighty welfare state fallen. Sweden is aflame, Greek youths suffer up to 75% unemployment and relying on prostitution. Even when the government make-work jobs falter, and the pensions dry up, and foreign capital investment flees in terror, the progressive answer is (as always) to employ "stimulus" and borrow more, more, more. Well, this is the end game of that plan. This is what it looks like when you "run out of other people's money." It's selling yourself on the streets for 5 Euro, coming to an American inner city near you. Maybe Detroit can reinvent itself as the North American sex tourist destination of choice for rich progressives.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1325511-it-is-not-different-this-time-it-is-worse

 

[Genx87]

Well this could happen to us but it will look different. It would be run away inflation as we print money to pay our ever increasing bills. Greece should leave the EU if they want a chance at survival.

 

[nehalem256]

It's selling yourself on the streets for 5 Euro, coming to an American inner city near you. Maybe Detroit can reinvent itself as the North American sex tourist destination of choice for rich progressives.
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You can already got an inner city prostitute for the cost of a happy meal and yet it is not a sex tourist destination.

Probably a quality issue.

 

[Attic]

We already have biflation hurting millions. CPI is nice enough to omit many necessities from its result.

Housing report that came out this morning is important because it indicates the median housing prices are way way up. Puts it out of reach for a job and income stricken majority while indicating what class is buying up homes and benefitting from the "recovery".

Housing is not a leading indicator for job and income growth.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Behold the mighty welfare state fallen.
coming to an American inner city near you.

What I mostly remember seeing on the TV news every night when I was a kid was black people rioting, scenes of Vietnam war atrocities, hippies getting shot by soldiers and police,etc. etc.
It's kind of like the same thing has been happening for a long time

edit- Oh and Russia was going to nuke us everyday

 

[fskimospy]

We already have biflation hurting millions. CPI is nice enough to omit many necessities from its result.

Housing report that came out this morning is important because it indicates the median housing prices are way way up. Puts it out of reach for a job and income stricken majority while indicating what class is buying up homes and benefitting from the "recovery".

Housing is not a leading indicator for job and income growth.

Sorry, we've been over this before. Not only are we not having significant inflation, but the CPI does not leave 'many necessities' out of its result and independent measures agree with it. The idea that there is secret inflation mostly comes from people's inability to accept that conservative economics was wrong.

As for Greece, it's not about whether or not the welfare state is a good thing it's that horribly mismanaging your budget is a bad thing.

 

[rudder]

Sorry, we've been over this before. Not only are we not having significant inflation, but the CPI does not leave 'many necessities' out of its result and independent measures agree with it. The idea that there is secret inflation mostly comes from people's inability to accept that conservative economics was wrong.

As for Greece, it's not about whether or not the welfare state is a good thing it's that horribly mismanaging your budget is a bad thing.

You seem knowledgeable in economics... maybe you can answer this question that has been bugging me. The Feds are buying Treasury bonds and mortgage bonds to the tune of about $85 billion a month. Where exactly does this money come from? From what I understand about the whole process is that the money comes from no where and is basically a ledger transfer. As the fed buys more they have to figure out a way to get these bonds off their balance sheets without sparking inflation. Seems to me all this cheapens the dollar which seems to be exactly what we don't want. By the end of this year the Fed will have $4 trillion on their balance sheet... what happens to the economy when they start to back off of this?

 

[Incorruptible]

The fucking idiots in greece voted for this BS and this is what they get. None of the big government morons here are going to learn though.

 

[nehalem256]

You seem knowledgeable in economics... maybe you can answer this question that has been bugging me. The Feds are buying Treasury bonds and mortgage bonds to the tune of about $85 billion a month. Where exactly does this money come from? From what I understand about the whole process is that the money comes from no where and is basically a ledger transfer. As the fed buys more they have to figure out a way to get these bonds off their balance sheets without sparking inflation. Seems to me all this cheapens the dollar which seems to be exactly what we don't want. By the end of this year the Fed will have $4 trillion on their balance sheet... what happens to the economy when they start to back off of this?

When they sell off the bonds they will be taking money OUT of the economy. That would be a deflationary event not an inflationary one.

 

[OverVolt]

People are about to learn a difficult lesson in finance/ economics. The people in Greece who vote for this stuff and suffer the results are about as naive as people who would watch the sun rise 4,000 years ago and not understand why it happens.

 

[fskimospy]

You seem knowledgeable in economics... maybe you can answer this question that has been bugging me. The Feds are buying Treasury bonds and mortgage bonds to the tune of about $85 billion a month. Where exactly does this money come from? From what I understand about the whole process is that the money comes from no where and is basically a ledger transfer. As the fed buys more they have to figure out a way to get these bonds off their balance sheets without sparking inflation. Seems to me all this cheapens the dollar which seems to be exactly what we don't want. By the end of this year the Fed will have $4 trillion on their balance sheet... what happens to the economy when they start to back off of this?

The Fed is basically creating this money out of thin air, yes. Eventually they are going to start to unwind their balance sheet when things get back to normal, but that is actually a deflationary measure. (when the fed buys something is makes new money, when it sells something it makes money disappear)

The Fed's current balance sheet is really large, so they will have to be really careful when they start selling this stuff off.

 

[OverVolt]

The Fed is basically creating this money out of thin air, yes. Eventually they are going to start to unwind their balance sheet when things get back to normal, but that is actually a deflationary measure. (when the fed buys something is makes new money, when it sells something it makes money disappear)

The Fed's current balance sheet is really large, so they will have to be really careful when they start selling this stuff off.

They can't/won't Japan style. They are on QE 8 or 9 over there, that is what we have to look forward to. Once you go QE you can't go back :awe:

Unwinding is a big myth. Its their intent to unwind but it will never be the right time to do so because QE isn't stimulating the economy as well as it should. It ends up in the hands of wall street and doesn't trickle down to main street. All there is to it really.

 

[fskimospy]

They can't/won't Japan style. They are on QE 8 or 9, that is what we have to look forward to. Once you go QE you can't go back :awe:

Unlikely.

 

[OverVolt]

Unlikely.

Well you are in for a surprise

 

[fskimospy]

Well you are in for a surprise

Considering the track record of conservative economics through this crisis at this point you can basically print your own money by betting on the polar opposite of whatever conservatives say is going to happen.

What would you consider an 'end' to QE? If you can give me a concrete prediction with clearly identified parameters I'll bet you on it.

 

[Veramocor]

You seem knowledgeable in economics... maybe you can answer this question that has been bugging me. The Feds are buying Treasury bonds and mortgage bonds to the tune of about $85 billion a month. Where exactly does this money come from? From what I understand about the whole process is that the money comes from no where and is basically a ledger transfer. As the fed buys more they have to figure out a way to get these bonds off their balance sheets without sparking inflation. Seems to me all this cheapens the dollar which seems to be exactly what we don't want. By the end of this year the Fed will have $4 trillion on their balance sheet... what happens to the economy when they start to back off of this?

The Fed can increase the money supply by a large amount and not necessarily increase inflation. *

MV=PQ

M is money supply, V is Velocity of money (how many times a dollar is spent in the economy), P is price, Q is quantity of goods

So the FED can increase the money supply without causing price if there is a decrease in V which there was because of the recession. In a recession a person is more likely to save a dollar than to spend it. Likewise a bank may not lend out money as readily because both are worried about future prospects. Therefore Velocity of money goes down. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V?cid=32242

Also P won't necessarily go up if Q can go up. For example in recession Q is not a full capacity.

As the economy improves (V increases and Q gets back up to full capacity) the Fed will have to decrease M (through interest rate increases, selling assets, increase required reserves) to keep prices under control.

 

[OverVolt]

The Fed can increase the money supply by a large amount and not necessarily increase inflation. *

MV=PQ

M is money supply, V is Velocity of money (how many times a dollar is spent in the economy), P is price, Q is quantity of goods

So the FED can increase the money supply without causing price if there is a decrease in V which there was because of the recession. In a recession a person is more likely to save a dollar than to spend it. Likewise a bank may not lend out money as readily because both are worried about future prospects. Therefore Velocity of money goes down. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V?cid=32242

Also P won't necessarily go up if Q can go up. For example in recession Q is not a full capacity.

As the economy improves (V increases and Q gets back up to full capacity) the Fed will have to decrease M (through interest rate increases, selling assets, increase required reserves) to keep prices under control.

The dollars just park on balance sheets really. Japan prints and prints and prints.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesgruber/2013/04/06/protection-from-japan-insanity/

Its the effect of QE, it plummets money velocity into the ground. Will be interesting now that the BOJ is going all in on more QE.

We did the experiment once with Japan, it tanked velocity. We're doing the experiment now, and velocity is tanking. Even stock market volume is a trickle. Its so obvious.

 

[Doppel]

One of Greece's problems is they can't print money. It's not the key problem, but a major one.

and they are lazy tits and suck in general, that's another issue.

 

[BlueWolf47]

What's even more crazy is the rise of the golden dawn political party in greece. They are basically a mirror of the nazis and openly express hatred for immigrants committing violence against them in streets.

China is probably the next bubble that is going to pop however. They have been rigging their GDP by massive construction projects. They have entire cities that are completely vacant with less than 2% occupancy rates. Apparently their construction has encompassed 50% of their GDP for like 8 years. If you have HBO they do a great expose on the new show vice.

 

[Incorruptible]

What's even more crazy is the rise of the golden dawn political party in greece. They are basically a mirror of the nazis and openly express hatred for immigrants committing violence against them in streets.

China is probably the next bubble that is going to pop however. They have been rigging their GDP by massive construction projects. They have entire cities that are completely vacant with less than 2% occupancy rates. Apparently their construction has encompassed 50% of their GDP for like 8 years. If you have HBO they do a great expose on the new show vice.

I don't understand why people are surprised by this. We are seeing more nationalistic and even neo-nazi groups rising in Europe and it's the result of multiculturalism.

When you have liberals pushing for multiculturalism and openly accepting all immigrants even when they refuse to integrate it causes more disdain for immigrants and pushes people to the Golden Dawn party.

 

[BlueWolf47]

I don't understand why people are surprised by this. We are seeing more nationalistic and even neo-nazi groups rising in Europe and it's the result of multiculturalism.

When you have liberals pushing for multiculturalism and openly accepting all immigrants even when they refuse to integrate it causes more disdain for immigrants and pushes people to the Golden Dawn party.

So promoting respect and acceptance of immigrants equals hate for immigrants?

I'm guessing your dad copulated with his sister in order to create someone so astonishingly stupid.

 

[Genx87]

So promoting respect and acceptance of immigrants equals hate for immigrants?

I'm guessing your dad copulated with his sister in order to create someone so astonishingly stupid.

I disagree with incorruptibles view on the reason behind the increase in popularity among these nationalist groups. It is economic hardships. The Nazi's gained their most when the economy of Germany crapped the bed. Hitler welcomed economic hard times. It was easier for him to sell his platform of scapegoating a minority to the majority.

But multiculturalism over the decades has created a perfect storm of resentment during hard economic times for these ideologies to exploit. Especially if these groups arent blending into the culture. Either through voluntary means or because of state programs.

 

[BlueWolf47]

Yes but no where in his incoherent rant does he state that this is a result of the economic crisis in Greece.

 

[Veramocor]

The dollars just park on balance sheets really. Japan prints and prints and prints.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesgruber/2013/04/06/protection-from-japan-insanity/

Its the effect of QE, it plummets money velocity into the ground. Will be interesting now that the BOJ is going all in on more QE.

We did the experiment once with Japan, it tanked velocity. We're doing the experiment now, and velocity is tanking. Even stock market volume is a trickle. Its so obvious.

Are you sure the velocity wasn't going down anyway. What would make increased M cause a decrease in V?

As a rational person if I thought the government was decreasing the value of my money by tripling the money supply I would go out and spend it before the value of my money decreased. This should increase Q (until it is at full capacity) and then affect prices.

 

[sunzt]

I thought the government was decreasing the value of my money by tripling the money supply I would go out and spend it before the value of my money decreased. This should increase Q (until it is at full capacity) and then affect prices.

spend your savings on what? gold?