Socket 939?

Shyatic

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2004
2,164
34
91
Just read they are being pushed in limited quantities later this month in another thread...

So the question is... will the prices drop on current processors, or is the 939 similar in price? What are the benefits of the 939 over what there is now?

I am looking at buying an AMD64 3000+ system in 2 or 3 weeks, which is why I'm now asking about this because I want to know what's the best thing to buy at the time. Granted I know I can wait forever, but my goal is to get the most value for my dollar so that it will last me the longest amount of time.

Thanks!
 

John

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
33,944
1
0
socket 754 = P4 socket 423 = early adopters hung out to dry

Athlon 64 processors with 939 pins will have 512KB of L2 cache as compared to today's 754-pin 1024KB L2 cache, however, the Dual-Channel memory controller will drastically decrease the impact of less L2 cache. The AMD Athlon 64 FX parts will continue to have 1MB of L2 cache after the transition to Socket 939.
 

jrphoenix

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,295
2
81
Originally posted by: bluewall21
Wait. Then analyze the situation. You don't want to regret purchasing a socket 754.

Ditto.. your upgrade path for socket 939 looks pretty bright.

with socket 754 you will only be able to upgrade to 3700+ or the new budget line of chips!
 

Twsmit

Senior member
Nov 30, 2003
925
0
76
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: ForceCalibur
Dual Channel, PCI-express, higher clocks, DDR2. Whats not to love.

DDR2

I agree, i dont expect A64's to run DDR2.... 1: its expensive and slow. 2: the built in memory controller is for DDRI. But otherwise the new goodies look nice.
 

ForceCalibur

Banned
Mar 20, 2004
608
0
0
IT will be DDR2 by the end of the year. First generation of 939 will not, ofcourse. And they DID say 667mhz DDR2 modules will be out by the end of the year too (which is the performance barrier that needed to be reached before the latency issue kills it)
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
1,835
0
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WHAT are you guys talking about? First off, DDR2 support will not happen until H2 2005 - try doing some homework :roll: Second, there's no indication that the dual channel memory with the accompanying halving of cache will produce anything but equal performance with higher latencies compared to the current single channel A64s; learn the difference between the P4 and A64 architectures.

Basically 939 is going to be much ado about nothing. Same performance, some boards will feature PCI-E x16 and x1 which basically will make no difference until at least a year from now best case scenario. And remember there WILL NOT be any value chips on the 939, so be prepared to pay $400 for a processor.

And stop with the idiotic but you can't upgrade the CPU with 754 arguments. By the time you need to upgrade a CPU you'll need a new mobo and RAM anyway. Upgradeability is a *non*factor.

Do yourself a favor, pick up one of the new nForce3 250 boards with a nice A64 3000+ (and new gen graphics card if you can afford it) and overclock the hell out of it. Enjoy the blazing performance for a year to a year and a half. Then, when you're ready to upgrade again, PCI-E will be mature with parts that actually show the benefits of the technology, DDR2 will be implemented at clock speeds high enough to offset the increased latency over DDR1 (in other words there will actually be a benefit to DDR2), and dual core A64 chips will likely be available.
 

ForceCalibur

Banned
Mar 20, 2004
608
0
0
Originally posted by: Bar81
WHAT are you guys talking about? First off, DDR2 support will not happen until H2 2005 - try doing some homework :roll: Second, there's no indication that the dual channel memory with the accompanying halving of cache will produce anything but equal performance with higher latencies compared to the current single channel A64s; learn the difference between the P4 and A64 architectures.

Basically 939 is going to be much ado about nothing. Same performance, some boards will feature PCI-E x16 and x1 which basically will make no difference until at least a year from now best case scenario. And remember there WILL NOT be any value chips on the 939, so be prepared to pay $400 for a processor.

And stop with the idiotic but you can't upgrade the CPU with 754 arguments. By the time you need to upgrade a CPU you'll need a new mobo and RAM anyway. Upgradeability is a *non*factor.

Do yourself a favor, pick up one of the new nForce3 250 boards with a nice A64 3000+ (and new gen graphics card if you can afford it) and overclock the hell out of it. Enjoy the blazing performance for a year to a year and a half. Then, when you're ready to upgrade again, PCI-E will be mature with parts that actually show the benefits of the technology, DDR2 will be implemented at clock speeds high enough to offset the increased latency over DDR1 (in other words there will actually be a benefit to DDR2), and dual core A64 chips will likely be available.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/pci-express_4.html

My bad. Estimate is Q1 2005. What is H2 mean?

I think the whole of point of 939 is PCI-express + Dual Channel. If someone needed an upgrade bad, waiting a little longer for 939 will be better in the long run than buying an A64 system now. Personally, I'm not getting one that early. My PC will hold up a few more years yet. My next upgrade will be a BTX, PCi-express, DDR2, R500, whatever socket, and best processor in a year or two. It all depends on how much money you want to blow, and just how "fast" you want your system to be.
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
1,835
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Remember, introduction doesn't mean general availability and reasonable pricing with no/little price premium so that it is ready for a mainstream introduction. With the absolute disaster that is Prescott and the cancellation of Tejas, the DDR2 speed push should slow a little. Note that the chart you show provides that DDR2 667 won't even capture a quarter of the market until Q3 2005; right in line with what I was saying as to timetable of introduction of a DDR2 enabled A64 CPU.

H2 means Second Half of 2005.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Still no. If you wait for 939, why not wait for the dual core CPUs? And then why not wait for whatever the next thing is?
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Will they ever come out with Socket 939 A64's that have 1MB L2 cache? 512KB seems kinda skimpy to me on such a cutting-edge CPU.
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
1,835
0
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Will they ever come out with Socket 939 A64's that have 1MB L2 cache? 512KB seems kinda skimpy to me on such a cutting-edge CPU.

That's what they're using to differentiate the S939 A64 from the S939 FXs (1MB L2 cache)
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Right, but eventually they HAVE TO give the FX 2MB of cache and the 64 1MB right? Oh well I guess I can wait.
 

InlineFive

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2003
9,599
2
0
Originally posted by: Twsmit
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: ForceCalibur
Dual Channel, PCI-express, higher clocks, DDR2. Whats not to love.

DDR2

I agree, i dont expect A64's to run DDR2.... 1: its expensive and slow. 2: the built in memory controller is for DDRI. But otherwise the new goodies look nice.

Never fear AMD fans, there are no plans to adopt DDR² untill it has flooded the market and prices have come down. I can't find the article now to prove it though, sorry.

-Por
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
1,835
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Originally posted by: SickBeast
Right, but eventually they HAVE TO give the FX 2MB of cache and the 64 1MB right? Oh well I guess I can wait.

I don't see why they have to. I wouldn't expect it.
 

NightCrawler

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,179
0
0
With tech you can wait forever. When the Athlon 64 fell below $200 it became a decent deal. Socket 939 is just taking to long to hit the market.
 

Addikt

Senior member
Apr 26, 2004
242
0
0
Well personally, I have been waiting too long for a new computer and I have planned out my budget, done tons of research, and come up with an awesome and affordable system. For me its too late to go back, but for those of you who are able to wait at least a year and a half could get more bang for your buck later.

First off, I have read about as much as I can about DDR2, and how much of a threat it will be if I were to build a new system now. Unfortunately for me, moronic RAM manufacturers are trying to get all the money they can out of the current DDR1 technology and that is hitting my wallet hard thusfar. DDR2 is actually *NOT* worth the wait. You might have heard that it will be faster with lower latencies and lower power consumption. What you might have lost in all the jargon is that these chips have to be clocked a lot faster to compensate for these voltage reductions just to compete with current DDR1 chips. Eventually DDR2 *WILL* overtake DDR1 but not anytime in the near future. All the graphs they have thrown at you seem to not even consider the fact that consumers will not to see how well the chips perform, not just the fact that it's new technology. Perhpas 8% of computer buyers fall in this group but not the majority, so well since that has been neglected everything is just a guess at this point. Sometimes you have to take risks in life and well, all these guesses are merely that, guesses.

In the recent past we have seen fluctuations in the computer market that no one foresaw, so what makes DDR2 and PCIe any different? I mean I have heard numerous times "I should have bough RAM last year because it's just so expensive!" Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet not to mention that everyone is looking at the DAY that these innovations come out. I agree with Bar81, by the time you are looking to get a socket 939 board you will need a new processor anyway. What is the point of an outdated chip on a new board? Doesn't sound like that techie optimization, "a computer is only as fast as it's slowest part" mentality that affects almost all of us computer enthusiasts. We are all about performance AND affordability. Even those who have money to burn are still looking to get bang for their buck, it's not just the end product, it's the thrill of the chase. So for those of you who kinda doze off reading that last section, what I am trying to say is when these new technologies first appear they will not be affordable until about another 6 months later; at which time new product will already be out. If you always wait for the new stuff to become affordable, it won't be new anymore...THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT AFFORDABLE.

Finally, about the whole PCIe issue. Well like all of you it's one of those things that are pretty sound. Just analyzing the theory one can understand the advantages of PCIe and how it should revolutionize the computer component interconnectivity architectural design (boy that was a mouthful). Also PCIe will be coming out at various speed and well you always need components that will fit in these special slots. Not to mention that there are still numerous bottlnecks in teh system to slow it down, one new innovation isn't going to make the whole process run as fast as is anticipated in these entusiast articles. At the end of the day you always have to understand that there are several parts that will slow down your computer, not to mention that certain chipsets are better at some things rather than others. So what do we learn from all this, well now our benchmarks are skewed, and how do we get around this? The answer is simple, WE DON'T. Sometimes we have to accept our limitations, and as stated before "live dangerously" (perhaps not the appropriate clause but it makes it sound a lot more adventurous doesn't it?)

At one point you have to bite the bullet and make a purchase and if you keep waiting you won't get a new system perhaps, ever. I understand that we all want to get the most for our money, but currently now is a little more awkward. We are used to little performance increases here and there, but we are at a point where the whole industry is being revolutionized. From new processors to next generation video cards and interconnectivity schemes, almost everything is changing. Sure you can wait if you want (and if you can afford it, I personally NEED a computer) but at the end of the day that decision is up to you, and waiting is not necessarily going to give you a better bang for your buck because you will want the new stuff. We have to face it if you are buying like me, now, you cannot look to the future to be upgrading. Too many things are changing, processors, sockets, chipsets, graphics cards, RAM architecture, PCI architecture, etc.

In conclusion, at one point or another you will want to make a purchase and you can only assume so much. Sure, you can expect prices to fall, but if they don't then it will cost you more, or you won't be able to make the purchase until later. Conversely, you could luck out and prices could drop in your favour, it's a gamble and it depends on when you NEED it or WANT it most because let's face it, not all of us are buying because we NEED perhaps moreso the latter. The point of this post (perhaps better termed, "rant," "article," "lecture," or "essay" at this point) is just to give current prospective buyers another view that, as far as I see, has not been introduced until now from both Bar81 and myself. Also it is geared toward those who have just made a purchase and are regretting it because of everything they have read in tech articles, and enthusiast forums like this one.

I enjoyed writing this, it helped me get a lot of my own anxiety out, so it is not competely in vain, and I hope that it can do the same for some of you.

Cheers. Good luck with your future purchases.
 

Addikt

Senior member
Apr 26, 2004
242
0
0
Heh sorry about that...here are the specs on my new system. Not the greatest but I tried to get the best performance for the smallest impact on the wallet.

AMD Athlon 64 3000+
Gigabyte GA-K8VT800 Pro VIA KT800 w/ AUD/GB LAN/RAID
2 x 512 MB OCZ PC3200 DDR400 EL Series
ATI RADEON 9800 PRO 128mb
Antec Sonata Case /w 380 W TruePower PS
WD 36GB 10K RPM S-ATA Storage
ASUS 52x CD-RW
SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS
Viewsonic P95f+

don't have the funds yet, but also looking at the nForce3 250 chipset, so the motherboard selection might change, that's about it though.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
wait.

I'm waiting for Socket 939 and PCI-Express before upgrading my motherboard.

(hopefully by the end of the summer *prays*)
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
The answer to this question is very simple.

If anyone out there upgrades within <6 months, wait, so you could upgrade the cpu later and later and so on. If you upgrade your CPU or Videocard >1 year every time, it doesnt matter as most likely a new motherboard will be in order anyway. Personally, I've had a 1600+, upgraded to a 2.6@3.2ghz P4 last June, now 1 year from now still happy with the cpu. The jump was decent but nothing staggering or amazing like everyone talks about. For gamers, videocard always matters more no matter what anyone says unless you have a PI processor. And for all users out there who care about cpu speed, they probably upgrade every 3-5 months anyway so they have a lot of money to not care. So in most cases, waiting is a waste of time, unless you know something will hit the shelves within 1 - 2 weeks time.
 

Addikt

Senior member
Apr 26, 2004
242
0
0
Even if you are going to wait for the next generation video cards they are still being released in AGP 8x and not PCIe (because it's not out yet). This means that even if you do wait you will still get your next gen graphics card on the older standards and upgrading the mobo will not be such a huge concern. As far as the socket 754 goes, I think that even with the release of socket 939 they will still support 754 for a while and I am not sure that the change will be as staggering as they are hyped up to be. After all this new socket allows for these improvements, and things such as taking advantage of dual channeled RAM is still under debate for the Athlon 64 series. I mean its possible on the FX but I mean that comes with a really high premium. By the time I will need to make MY next purchase I will probably be buying a whole new motherboard and graphics card with the PCIe standard and maybe even get an Athlon FX if the price comes down. We will see, but I have thought as many scenarios out as possible and I am not really interested in upgrading. Even if I wait 6-12 months I will not be able to upgrade because next gen graphics cards will not be on PCIe, or at least I don't think they will be. That might be wishful thinking, but worst case scenario is that nothing is upgradable and 939 brings about some HUGE differences (really a new socket can only bring about potential performance differences though, there is still and architectural design aspect that realizes these increases). Also I am keeping the price reasonable so I can afford for the system to be completely out of date in about 12 months. Good enough for me, I feel I have all the angles figured out.
 
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