Software Engineering vs. CIS

[jread]

Yes, I know the old "CS vs. CIS" debate has been beaten to death all over the internet and there is no point in bringing that up. The stance of both sides are well-known.

I do, however, need some clarity on the difference between software engineering and CIS. I imagine Software Engineering degrees are more technical though they don't seem as technical as CS degrees. They also share some things in common with CIS such as project management, product delivery and other business concepts. From the different programs I've looked at, Software Engineering degrees don't get nearly as hardcore as CS degrees (less math, less theory) and are focused more on real world application. So far, I've had a very hard time figuring out what to expect from a Software Engineering program. For instance, here are two graduate programs I'm considering... one is a M.S. in Software Engineering and the other is an M.S. in CIS.

Software Engineering: http://aln.coe.ttu.edu/degrees/MSSE.php

CIS: http://www.stedwards.edu/business/graduate/mscis/curriculum.htm

I see that the CIS degree is more broad but I cannot tell if either really get deep into the theory of computer science. Maybe someone with more experience in the S.E. field can give me some insight on this. It seems that Software Engineering programs are popping up all over the place lately but there aren't really any standards for coursework that I've noticed.

Thanks!

 

[tfinch2]

I always though that CS == SE

 

[jread]

I thought that as well but they seem to be different academic programs entirely. They share *some* courses but the core requirements are much different.

 

[jread]

bump

 

[smack Down]

SE seems really focused on UML and design patterns.

 

[RedCOMET]

I found it odd that a lot of jobs in my area are Software Engineering job, but basicaly they are programming gigs that either a CS major or a CoE major could do if they had the appropriate programing skills.

But for graduate work, I dont think you can go wrong if you have a master in Software Enginnering.

Engineers Rock!!!

 

[jread]

So is it more of the conceptual design of the software or is it the coding, or both? If it's coding then I don't understand the difference between software engineering and programming.

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: jread
So is it more of the conceptual design of the software or is it the coding, or both? If it's coding then I don't understand the difference between software engineering and programming.

SE is more about principles, design of software, ofcourse codng will be involved but the stress isnt on it. I did my Masters in Computer Science and took courses which had hardcore coding projects. Software engineering is good if that interests you. Some SE is needed by all. OOAD, design patterns etc are all useful to know. I didnt take any SE courses during my masters though

 

[DougK62]

Well what do you want to do with your degree?

Go for the Software Engineering if you want to code software. The CIS program will probably fit better with a wider variety of jobs. Neither will likely get into much computer science theory or math - if you want that then look for a CS program.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: jread
So is it more of the conceptual design of the software or is it the coding, or both? If it's coding then I don't understand the difference between software engineering and programming.

An SE degree will teach you how to be a good programmer and to work in a corporate environment. A CS degree teaches computer science theory - programming is just a tool to teach the theory.

Big difference.

 

[jread]

Originally posted by: DougK62
An SE degree will teach you how to be a good programmer and to work in a corporate environment.

That's exactly what I want, so it looks like SE is for me. I am not very interested in theory or advanced mathematics... I want to learn how to design and code efficient software in the real world.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

_____ Engineer > *

 

[jread]

Ok, I have to admit that to my frustration, I still have no idea what in the hell a Software Engineering degree entails. I messaged a guy who is a graduate of the same Master's program I'm looking into, but his message didn't really clear it up for me. I thought that S.E. would deal heavily in programming but according to him it doesn't:

The bulk of the courses deal with phases of the Software Process Model. Software Specification & Design, Software Quality Assurance and Testing, Software Process Improvement, Software Project Management, etc.

As far as programming languages go, the instructor for a couple of the SE classes prefer ASP.net with C# as the languages used to make Web Based Applications. However, I have taken courses where they expect some UNIX programming using C++.

The program doesn't really focus on teaching you programming languages. They assume you already know how to program. The graduate program focuses more on higher level concepts which do require you to program from time to time.

They expect you to already know how to program? What do they teach you then? What is the "software process model"? To me, this sounds a lot more like a business degree than anything else.

Can someone help clear this up for me?

 

[mundane]

Where I attended college (undergrad), SE was light on the programming, _very_ heavy on documentation. Their emphasis was on program design, software lifecycle/process, etc. Most of the professors were content to leave actual implementation of the projects as 'details', and didn't weigh them much (grades). I got the impression they believed their role was to design software components/architecture, while us code monkeys would be required to interpret those documents and implement to specs.

As an undergrad SE, they expect you to take ~1 year of programming (same classes as first year CS). Beyond that, I don't think they required any more programming-specific courses.

 

[acemcmac]

I have never heard of a software engineering degree.... Are there any states other than Texas that recognize SE as a licenced profession? SE without some sort of licenced engineering credentials seems really flaky to me.

 

[jread]

Thanks for your reply.

A major goal of mine is to become a good programmer, so I'm not sure if S.E. will work for me or not. I do have the option of a C.S. degree with a minor in S.E. as well, so maybe that is a better route. At the same time, the design of the software is one of the most fun parts and much programming can be self-taught. I wonder if the programming in an S.E. degree is "enough" to give you the concepts you need to be a good programmer.

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I have never heard of a software engineering degree.... Are there any states other than Texas that recognize SE as a licenced profession? SE without some sort of licenced engineering credentials seems really flaky to me.

I don't think it's recognized a a licensed profession here either. More of a name than anything else. I have seen S.E. degrees at other schools as well.

 

[mundane]

Originally posted by: jread
Thanks for your reply.

A major goal of mine is to become a good programmer, so I'm not sure if S.E. will work for me or not. I do have the option of a C.S. degree with a minor in S.E. as well, so maybe that is a better route. At the same time, the design of the software is one of the most fun parts and much programming can be self-taught. I wonder if the programming in an S.E. degree is "enough" to give you the concepts you need to be a good programmer.

I took enough SE classes to earn a concentration, but no minor. IMHO, some of their courses should be mandatory for CS students, especially the Design Principles/Patterns - it has been invaluable to me.

SE with a CS minor might give you what you're looking for; CS with SE minor would probably delve too much into programming concepts which you might not find useful. I can't comment on CIS, as I'm not famillar with the program. And to repeat what I mentioned above, all of my experience is with the B.S. programs, not their M.S. or Ph.D., and for a specific school.

 

[jread]

Thanks again for the info. I think I will stick with the S.E. degree and supplement with programming classes here and there as I need them. As you said, CS can get too deep into programming concepts that are never used outside of academia.

 

[tom3]

I got my undergrad degree in Software Engineering, and my graduate degree in Computer Science. So I know a little about the differences in the approaches and objectives (at least in one institution). An imperfect analogy I like to use is that Software Engineering to Computer Science is similar to Mechanical Engineering to Physics.

Both disciplines will require extensive programming, as writing code is just a tool. (think of it as being able to do calculus and advanced math) The difference is that SE builds on a foundation of computer science, combined with engineering rigor (process, documentation, systems engineering, communication, etc) so that SE graduates are trained to design, coordinate, and build software.

Computer Science on the other hand places a lighter emphasis on the engineering approach, and focuses more on the different topics in CS (theory, algorithms, languages, artificial intelligence, etc.). Typically, you'd pick which areas you'd like to concentrate on and take courses in that cluster.

Obviously there is a lot of overlap, and in many cases, SE and CS graduates can work the same type of jobs. There are jobs that are more suitable for SE graduates (program management perhaps), and jobs that are more suitable for CS graduates (research).

You can take a look at the descriptions and course listing of the curriculums at RIT's college of computing and information sciences, which may help you to understand a bit more.

Now what CIS is, I'm not very sure. Is that like MIS (a program in the business school), Management in Information Science?

And for those wondering about SE as a "licensed profession", I'm not sure whether there's some state or federal licensing of Software Engineers. I do know that there's been tremendous effort to create and define a disciplined and rigorous approach to creating software in the last few decades (realizing that hack and slash isn't the best method), and the result is the evolving discipline of software engineering. Take a look at SEI at Carnegie Mellon.

 

[tom3]

Originally posted by: jread
Thanks again for the info. I think I will stick with the S.E. degree and supplement with programming classes here and there as I need them. As you said, CS can get too deep into programming concepts that are never used outside of academia.

Any good SE program will not need you to take additional programming classes as a supplement. They WILL teach you to program in a SE program.

If you're talking about a graduate degree, however, then you will most likely be required to complete bridge courses before starting the actual curriculum as either a SE or a CS graduate program will require (assume) incoming students to know how to program.

 

[jread]

Originally posted by: tom3
If you're talking about a graduate degree, however, then you will most likely be required to complete bridge courses before starting the actual curriculum as either a SE or a CS graduate program will require (assume) incoming students to know how to program.

I just checked the program and you're exactly right. There are three "Levelling Courses" that do not count toward the graduate degree that are required for everyone who does not have a C.S. or S.E. bachelor's degree. From the course descriptions, these three courses go over programming, data structures, assembly, etc. to prepare you for entry into the S.E. program. I guess that this is where the programming comes into play. The S.E. courses after that assume that you can program already.

That works for me

 

[pinion9]

I have my BS in C.S. and am almost done with my MS in Software Engineering.

In fact, most C.S. degree holders are performing the job of a software engineer. Think about the meanings of the words engineer and scientist. A scientist builds to learn, while and engineer learns to build.

Developing algorithms, doing research, etc. are in the realm of C.S., while writing code, documenting user needs, testing, etc. are in the realm of S.E.

Both are good degrees, although I would say, from my personal experience, C.S. is more....scientific. In SE there are often several correct answers to a question (e.g. what kind of development life cycle would be best for Project A.)

 

[TheSlamma]

Depends on what country you plan to move to after school.. neither degree will get you anywhere in the US.

 

[tmc]

from the links it looks like the SE one is better. however, i have no idea on the rankings though.

i am doing CS myself

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Depends on what country you plan to move to after school.. neither degree will get you anywhere in the US.

Nice flamebait :roll: Go troll elsewhere.

I have C.S. degree and am making six figures. Only have had degree for about a year and a half. I live in Alaska, so I'm not working some dream job for Google or Microsoft.

Both degrees are useful, as there are jobs that cannot be outsourced (such as government jobs.)