Software Piracy

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: troytime

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: troytime
and how many mp3s are on your computer?

Hundreds ... every one ripped from my own CD collection.

mp3 != pirated

my bad, i should have asked how many illegaly downloaded mp3s

Illegally downloaded = artist doesn't get money.

How many second hand CD's do you own?

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Rediculous pricing is what makes people steal.

If we could easily afford it, it wouldnt be worth the time and effort to go download it even.

Look at the new ESPN series of games, $20 a pop on release, and they are still making money, as a matter of fact those games are flying off the shelves as a result of the price.

I bought NFL 2K5 for PS2 and I love it. Only problem is that it doesn't work anymore.

But then again, the only PS2 game that I own that works is EA's MVP Baseball 2004. I swear to god, that's the only game that loads. Ever other game gives a "Disc Read Error." We've had the PS2 for ~3 years though, so I'm guessing it's about the end of it's life cycle, but it still sucks. I'm not sure whether I should buy a new ps2 now or wait for the mini ps2 to arrive, or just start buying everything for xbox (even though I don't really like the controller).

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I'm a programmer and a pirate. I buy things I find that are quality. Pirating stuff is a trial thing for me. I love how companies talk about loses due to pirating when the fact is if most people who pirate had to pay for it they wouldn't bother. If I wasn't so damn poor I probably wouldn't pirate either (not all people can easily shift their budget to get games).

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Rediculous pricing is what makes people steal.

If we could easily afford it, it wouldnt be worth the time and effort to go download it even.

Look at the new ESPN series of games, $20 a pop on release, and they are still making money, as a matter of fact those games are flying off the shelves as a result of the price.

They're not making a whole lot of money at $20/ea, but they're doing that to gain market share from EA which has some major name recognition that generates sales.

<-- actually talks to a PR guy on a regular basis.

 

[purbeast0]

i will admit that i have pirated alot of stuff in my days. however, out of all the pirated stuff i have, i would have purchased probably 3% of the apps/games i have. and you know what? i did purchase that 3% of stuff.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Kida always want crap for free, they don't understand the value of a dollar.

maybe it's because they do understand the value of a dollar that they want stuff for free

Kids also steal bubblegum and candy at >$1 a pop.

The same argument applies to the "games cost too much" BS excuse, cost is irrelevant. They don't understand what it takes to EARN a dollar, they do understand what it takes to SPEND one. If they respected what it takes to earn a dollar, they wouldn't be so willing to steal, knowing it's taking money away from someone who earned it.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
I'm a programmer and a pirate. I buy things I find that are quality. Pirating stuff is a trial thing for me. I love how companies talk about loses due to pirating when the fact is if most people who pirate had to pay for it they wouldn't bother. If I wasn't so damn poor I probably wouldn't pirate either (not all people can easily shift their budget to get games).

That's true in certain markets. Most people who pirate Photoshop wouldn't buy it if they couldn't download it. However, there are a ton of people who pirate Windows who would buy it if they couldn't get it for free, and there are a ton of people who pirate games who would buy at least thier favorite ones if they couldn't get them for free.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Rediculous pricing is what makes people steal.

If we could easily afford it, it wouldnt be worth the time and effort to go download it even.

Look at the new ESPN series of games, $20 a pop on release, and they are still making money, as a matter of fact those games are flying off the shelves as a result of the price.

Never underestimate how cheap people are.

Even if games cost $1 at the store, people would still steal them. Hell, look at movies. It costs $4 to rent one and people will spend two days to get one from a torrent just so they can save $4.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
I'm a programmer and a pirate. I buy things I find that are quality. Pirating stuff is a trial thing for me. I love how companies talk about loses due to pirating when the fact is if most people who pirate had to pay for it they wouldn't bother. If I wasn't so damn poor I probably wouldn't pirate either (not all people can easily shift their budget to get games).

... and there is still no justification for pirating GAMES. Games are pure entertainment and something you can easily live without. If you can't afford them, too bad. I can't afford to ride in the new commercial space flights that will be opening soon but it's something I'd like to try. So should I get to steal a ride since I can't shift my budget to buy a flight?

I taught university level for a short time. I knew many of the students were pirating things like Microsoft Office and Visual Studio. I ignored those and didn't make a big deal out of it. Why? Because I understood that most of them honestly couldn't afford that software and it WAS something that they needed for their school work. That doesn't make it 'right', it just made me sympathetic. But pirating games? There is no 'decent' reason for that.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Rediculous pricing is what makes people steal.

If we could easily afford it, it wouldnt be worth the time and effort to go download it even.

Look at the new ESPN series of games, $20 a pop on release, and they are still making money, as a matter of fact those games are flying off the shelves as a result of the price.

Never underestimate how cheap people are.

Even if it was $5 for a top title like Doom III or HL2 they would still pirate. Hell, look at movies. It costs $4 to rent one and people will spend two days to get one from a torrent just so they can save $4.

Even if games cost $1 at the store, people would still steal them.

Yeah i should rephrase that, people who would otherwise buy it would buy it if it was affordable.

If photoshop was $20 id own it, if Premiere was $20 id own it, etc.

 

[rubix]

although your message is correct, it has the same "conundrum" as similar ones.

the problem is that people shouldn't pirate software because it is taking money from the companies/programmers and therefore if someone doesn't have the money they shouldn't use the program, period. ok.

but the fact remains then that the company/programmer STILL doesn't get money since the person who would have pirated still doesn't pay for it. they STILL go out of business all the same for not making enough profits. and it gets worse... the people who can't afford the software will often use a free alternative, which in turn will actually hurt the company selling their software more as they are now losing potential future revenue as the person using a free alternative may have no need to ever give them a chance in the future. can't afford windows? try linux? 5 years later... you think that person who mastered linus will want to switch over? most would be vehemently against it as they are a hardcore linus fan and grateful for their existence. that's just one example.

so really, only the people who pirate software who would have paid for it otherwise hurt the company potentially.

in many ways it is better for a company to have people pirate their software. it helps retain future customers, helps establish their software as the "standard" in it's particular field, helps keep fans and supporters of it regardless whether they pay for it or not, and therefore is good for their business. no one likes to admit that.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my roommate (a programmer, of all things) is the biggest pirate that I know.

he refuses to pay for an OS, so I'm, like, "dude, just run Linux." he'd rather steal XP (and subsequently can't patch, so he has mad issues on his comp).

IP to your room, so I can pwn him endlessly?

- M4H

 

[IHYLN]

I played a pirated version of Doom3 on a friend's machine. He said he didn't like it so I went over to give it a whirl and bought the full copy on my way back.

People who want to buy stuff will do so if they like it. People like my friend, didn't like it and prolly ended up deleting it, so what is this mumbo jumbo about companies and lost sales?

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: troytime

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: troytime
and how many mp3s are on your computer?

Hundreds ... every one ripped from my own CD collection.

mp3 != pirated

my bad, i should have asked how many illegaly downloaded mp3s

Illegally downloaded = artist doesn't get money.

How many second hand CD's do you own?

What's wrong with that? The music industry has tried squash 2nd hand sales on occasion, but they don't have a leg to stand on. Now if you're ripping the CD, then selling it and keeping the rips, that's unethical in my view.

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: puffff
the problem with the gaming industry is it's target audience (high school, college students) in most cases cant afford games at $50 a pop. it's like rolex trying to sell its watches to teenagers. it's just not a fundamentally sound business plan.

These are the same people who all have $30/month cell phones and $100 athletic shoes, right?

Cell phones=paid for by the parents normally.

Shoes. MAYBE might cost $60.00 and they last a year or two

Games cost $50-$60.00 and typically last anywhere from 3 days to 6 months tops until they are old.

 

[Feneant2]

They should make all software free with a pay per use agreement to get a cd key. Look at MMORPGs, people gladly pay to play those. In the last 5 years, if I had to guess, I would say that I paid maybe 600$ in keeping my suscriptions to those games active when in actual games I might have spent 400$ in that same period.

I would suggest 2 business practices. One, give away the game, sell the cd key online and have a force sign up where as you can't fake a cd key because it is not associated to your credit card. Demand that people provide a credit card to get a cd key and have it check whenever you play. Or, pay to play, give away the game totally free but charge per month to have it work. As both methods require a payment, its much harder to pirate. You don't see people playing Everquest, Final Fantasy XI or those games with a pirated cdkey so they must be doing something right!

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
I'm a programmer and a pirate. I buy things I find that are quality. Pirating stuff is a trial thing for me. I love how companies talk about loses due to pirating when the fact is if most people who pirate had to pay for it they wouldn't bother. If I wasn't so damn poor I probably wouldn't pirate either (not all people can easily shift their budget to get games).

... and there is still no justification for pirating GAMES. Games are pure entertainment and something you can easily live without. If you can't afford them, too bad. I can't afford to ride in the new commercial space flights that will be opening soon but it's something I'd like to try. So should I get to steal a ride since I can't shift my budget to buy a flight?

I taught university level for a short time. I knew many of the students were pirating things like Microsoft Office and Visual Studio. I ignored those and didn't make a big deal out of it. Why? Because I understood that most of them honestly couldn't afford that software and it WAS something that they needed for their school work. That doesn't make it 'right', it just made me sympathetic. But pirating games? There is no 'decent' reason for that.

You can't afford the space flight, but if you stole it they would be losing something of their own. If you copy games your not taking anything but theoritical sales that couldn't take place anyway (when they can take place I make them take place). I won't say this justifies it or what I do. I was just saying what I do in my previous post.

 

[Red]

You can't justify theft no matter how you try to spin it. Until the author/programmer/store owner says "my stuff is free, take it", you're stealing.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: slag
Games cost $50-$60.00 and typically last anywhere from 3 days to 6 months tops until they are old.

Can't people buy them used for cheap?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Feneant2
They should make all software free with a pay per use agreement to get a cd key. Look at MMORPGs, people gladly pay to play those. In the last 5 years, if I had to guess, I would say that I paid maybe 600$ in keeping my suscriptions to those games active when in actual games I might have spent 400$ in that same period.

I would suggest 2 business practices. One, give away the game, sell the cd key online and have a force sign up where as you can't fake a cd key because it is not associated to your credit card. Demand that people provide a credit card to get a cd key and have it check whenever you play. Or, pay to play, give away the game totally free but charge per month to have it work. As both methods require a payment, its much harder to pirate. You don't see people playing Everquest, Final Fantasy XI or those games with a pirated cdkey so they must be doing something right!

that would work maybe, if the gaming target audience was only 18+. the majority of gamers are younger aged and teenagers. that's not to say that there aren't gamers over 18. I know I am. However these younger kids who play games would never be able to do all that stuff you are suggesting. maybe they could get their parents to do that, but i know my parents wouldn't want their cc information floating around out there due to me wanting to play some game if i was like 13. it's just not as simple as plugging a game in and turning it on.

and this is in regards to consoles more than PC gaming. consoles are about 100x easier to play (as in get a game going from the box you purchased it in) than a PC.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: slag

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: puffff
the problem with the gaming industry is it's target audience (high school, college students) in most cases cant afford games at $50 a pop. it's like rolex trying to sell its watches to teenagers. it's just not a fundamentally sound business plan.

These are the same people who all have $30/month cell phones and $100 athletic shoes, right?

Cell phones=paid for by the parents normally.

Shoes. MAYBE might cost $60.00 and they last a year or two

Games cost $50-$60.00 and typically last anywhere from 3 days to 6 months tops until they are old.

But games are entertainment. Divide that $60 (higher cost) over the number of hours you play, let's say 30 hours (kinda of low amount). That's $2/hour.

Now, lets compare that to say... a sporting event. ~$40/ticket, another $20 on food/drinks, that's $60. The event lasts, what 2-3 hours, maybe 4 for baseball. OK, that's... $15/hour

OK, maybe that's a bad comparison, lets do a movie instead. ~$10-15, for 2 hours. That's $5/hour.

Nah, those are bad examples because YOU buy the computer monitor, internet connection... OK, lets do a DVD. $20 for 2 hours. Thats $10/hour.

Next excuse?

 

[edmicman]

hasn't this already been beaten to death? jeesh, get over it people

 

[SunnyD]

You all do know that the RIAA insists that ripping your "own" CD to MP3 format isn't considered fair use right?

 

[Bateluer]

I used to pirate everything back in the day, I was in High School and worked at a fast food restaurant. Didn't exactly have the money to fork out 200 dollars for a legal copy of Windows. Then I grew up, moved out, joined the USAF, and currently have a stable source of income. At present, I do have games I didn't pay for. Commander Keen, Leisure Suit Larry 1, etc. Old games that either were given away by the company or have been out so long the copyright has expired.

 

[imported_judge]

You want people to stop pirating that is fine, first reduce the price of software from $100 to $20 then don't tie one program to one computer and actually provide updates for the program and not just release new version every year and call it knew with minor changes and sell it again for $100. Till that happens allot of poeople will continue pirating