Software Pirating. . .your take

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mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0


<< And it appears you fail to grasp mine. I won't be so disrespectful as to make it stand out. I'll assume you can read it just fine as it is.

Regardless of your thoughts on the subject of piracy, you don't have the right to belittle those who choose not to think as you do. Regardless of the legality of the issue, at no point are you ENTITLED to snob your nose up at people who don't share your moral values. You said it yourself life is about choice and sacrifice, yet you don't seem to respect this at all. Life is about choice and sacrifice. Piraters have made the choice to obtain software illegally and have sacrificed the security that comes in knowing that there is no risk involved in owning it. If things were to go your way, however, you would deny them this choice. U can't even live by your own words yet you expect others to. U voice your disgust at piracy, yet you are the one condemning anyone. No one is cramming warez down your throat. No one is calling you a fool for paying for your software when another choice exists. No one depicting you as worthless and small. We all make our own choices in life. I choose to use my job as a means of getting software, knowing full well there are plenty of places legal and illegal I can get the software from, and I can live with it. Others pirate, knowing full well that their actions are not condoned and that there are other ways to get the software, and they live with it. You have chosen to purchase your software knowing full well you could pirate it and that there are many piraters there in the market, but seem to have this need to bash on people who make other choices.
>>


Your argument wouldn't be so intolerable if the crime you are engaging in wasn't victimless. But there ARE victims from the trading of warez, and that's the software makers and the legitimate consumers of their products. The argument of "well, I wouldn't buy the software if I had to pay for it" is moot because you aren't doing them any favors buy using pirated copies! Lemme steal this copy of Max Payne just to show Gathering of Developers that I like their work. Geez, where's the logic???

So yes, tm37, does have both the legal and moral justification to "belittle" you.

Sir Fredrick- You mention that pirating may help improve the market share of a product, but if the company does not endorse the acquisition of market share through pirating, then you cannot say pirating is right. Utlimately, the software maker owns their property...it is not within our legal or moral right to "help them out" by downloading warez if they forbid it.
 

Swag1138

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2000
3,444
0
0
I still cant understand why you anti-piracy zealots keep arguing about this. We have stated time and time again, that we do NOT care. We are SO filled with apathy, that even should you post the most groundbreaking argument against piracy that has ever been uttered by any human on the face of this Earth in all of history, we still wouldnt care. All your doing is making yourself angry, and giving us something to laugh at. But hey, if that floats your boat, then fine with me, but dont expect piracy to fall just because you dont like it.

One final statement:
Stop trying to piss in our cherios, your only spattering it back on your cream-of-wheat.
 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
4,375
0
0


<< You mention that pirating may help improve the market share of a product, but if the company does not endorse the acquisition of market share through pirating, then you cannot say pirating is right. Utlimately, the software maker owns their property...it is not within our legal or moral right to "help them out" by downloading warez if they forbid it. >>



It's not possible for a company to endorse pirating, even if they do not mind it. If they flat out said that it was ok to pirate it, then they would lose legitimate business. However, the argument is that in many cases they are not losing business, if people only pirate software that they would never buy anyway.
The morality of this is questionable at best, and it is clearly illegal, but people do many things that are illegal. Morally wrong or not, people will do what they must to survive; pirating software is viewed as a much lesser evil than shoplifting from a store since nobody directly loses money from the act.
I believe it was the CEO of Corel who said that while they dislike piracy and want everyone to pay for their software, they would rather have people pirate THEIR software than Microsoft's or someone elses.

In many cases, as market share increases due to piracy, sales will also increase.
For example, in my dorm last year, one person brought in a pirated copy of Age of Empires II. It became a huge hit and everyone on my floor copied it (note that none of them had even heard of it before). Several of those people purchased their own copies since they could afford to, and then when the expansion pack came out, not only did they buy that, but several more people who'd had a pirated version went out and bought the full version AND the expansion pack.


A question for you: Do you think it is morally wrong to resell software that you have bought, if you decide that you don't like it and remove it from your computer?
If you do this, you are taking revenue away from the software company, because you are selling to a person who is obviously willing to pay money for the software.

As a software developer, I'd rather see my program copied by a teen who would never purchase my software to begin with, than see someone reselling my program, even if they did remove it from their computer.
 

yoda291

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,079
0
0


<< So yes, tm37, does have both the legal and moral justification to "belittle" you. >>



tm37 does NOT have justification to belittle anyone.
- tm37 can disagree with piracy and those who do it ... fine
- tm37 can oppose piracy and spread awareness of its moral and legal implications... fine
- tm37 can even say that he doesn't like it when people pirate for x, y, z reasons ... fine by me
- tm37 could even ask piraters to stop
- Heck, tm37 could even spread our flyers all over the country spewing nazi propaganda for all I care.

- but I don't recall in any of the software license agreements that he has the right to go around and typecast people who don't think like he does, don't share his moral values, or his particular sense of judgement. He's got a problem with piracy, it has been duly noted. Casting all piraters as slackers and online vagrants who are of little or no worth is where I draw the line. There is no excuse for passing judgement on people you don't know squat about. The world does not conform to this moral model that tm37 puts up and that it, under just about anyone's perspective, doesn't work as it SHOULD because there are other options.

I have stated earlier that his arguments against piracy are sound(not that I agree with them), but that some things are uncalled for.

Take jaywalking for instance. It's illegal and endangers the lives of motorists and pedestrians alike. That's why it's illegal. I can ask people not to jaywalk. I can not jaywalk myself. I can debate until I'm blue in the face that it's a moral and legal sin and that jaywalkers are a dangerous element in society. But would I be justified by saying that all jaywalkers are irresponsible citizens who would all make unfit parents and were raised by slack-off parents themselves? I didn't think so either. Most of us have jaywalked before in our lives. There are victims of it every year. Does that mean that the majority of people were raised by shoddy parents?

PS - Swag, I have lost any and all desire to eat breakfast ever again in my life.
 

atrowe

Banned
May 20, 2001
253
0
0
Most software houses aren't making a lot of money unless they have an extremely popular game. I feel that $50 for a piece of software is justified, since most of these companies are breaking even at best, and will gladly shell out to show my support.

Microsoft software on the other hand...
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0


<< A question for you: Do you think it is morally wrong to resell software that you have bought, if you decide that you don't like it and remove it from your computer?
If you do this, you are taking revenue away from the software company, because you are selling to a person who is obviously willing to pay money for the software.

As a software developer, I'd rather see my program copied by a teen who would never purchase my software to begin with, than see someone reselling my program, even if they did remove it from their computer.
>>


Ah, but you aren't seeing this correctly! Software is product. It may not be tangible like a car, but it is still product. There are no moral issues at all with reselling software that you buy legally, decide you didn't like and remove from your PC (as long as the EULA permits resale...for instance, most academic licenses forbid it). Reselling software is essentially no different than reselling a car. Am I denying revenue to Honda if I sell my Accord to somebody else? That person could afford to buy a new Accord, but they chose to buy my used one. A person who buys my used car is not denying the manufacturer revenue...because if we were all unable to resell used cars (and unwanted software), few could manage to buy new cars. Do you understand why your logic is flawed? Reselling software (within the limits of the license) is entirely legal AND moral.

That teen never gave you a dime, but at least the person who resold your software gave you revenue when they bought the software originally. What kind of users would you rather have? The dead-beat, non-paying kind, or the reselling kind who start off with legitimate paid copies?

I've read your posts before, Sir Fredrick, so I know you are capable of thoughtful analysis. Think about it.

---


<< I still cant understand why you anti-piracy zealots keep arguing about this. We have stated time and time again, that we do NOT care. >>


and


<< Casting all piraters as slackers and online vagrants who are of little or no worth is where I draw the line. There is no excuse for passing judgment on people you don't know squat about. >>


Your arguments are very telling. I'll try not to be condescending, but we often don't realize the face we present to others because we each have natural shields that protect our perspectives from scrutiny.

From my external, anonymous perspective, both of you are "troubled", that's pretty clear. Whether you realize it or not, you are "troubled" by the realization that the activities you engage in (warez) are not being accepted by others. This bothers you both. Your reputation is being questioned, so you are engaging your natural defenses. This defense comes in the form of repeated denial of wrong-doing. You believe, from repetition, that you are in the right...or at least, not in the wrong.

From your world view, environment and background, you download copied software for various "justified" reasons. These "justified" reasons seem infallible to you simply because the experiences you've drawn on to come to your conclusions are limited. Surely a sensible individual with acuity for law and common decency would understand why piracy is wrong. Yet you do not come to the same conclusion.

We all break laws. Speeding is my vice. Do I try to rationalize and justify my behavior? Yes, I do. Again, that's part of the natural tendency to protect oneself from scrutiny. I try to justify speeding from the personal "discovery" - drawn from experience - that speeding produces gains (quicker, more pleasurable travel) without creating undue losses (crashes and injuries)...in my perspective. It's my perspective because I've never been in a situation where speeding has produced a bad end, though "experts" can produce documentation that says risks increase with speed. As time goes by, however, the cumulative experience of being able to speed without causing harm becomes a strong rationalization against submissiveness to traffic law.

Perhaps you are rationalizing in a similar manner. You download warez, find the act pleasurable (save money) and you repeatedly do it and realize the risks of getting caught are fairly low. You think you are in the green...or at least, you think nobody has the right to tell you that you are wrong. However, there is a clear differentiation from somebody who speeds and somebody who pirates software. A speeder, while charged with increasing the risk of injuries to himself and others, is not harming others simply by speeding. Speeding itself is more or less subjective and often speed law is dictated by revenue concerns (hick towns with 25mph speed zones) than rational sense. However, a warez addict is harming others from the very first download. You are taking somebody else's property without their permission. It's that simple. Unlike speeding, pirating creates a bad end right from the start. Neither activity is moral behavior, but one is definitely more objectionable.

So if you are grinding your teeth over how others - seemingly hypocritical others - "desire to impose their morality on you", consider the nature of the act in question. It isn't victimless. I hope you realize this.

And yes, our reputations are formed by our actions. We can try to rationalize our behavior but we must accept that ultimately our external reputations may not be to our liking. Perhaps you don't care what other people think of you? Ok, that's your decision. But it sounds like both of you do care what people think of you. If you don't want your reputation harmed, don't go posting in a public forum how you love to get warez and really don't care about your actions, because others do care.
 



<< With the above solutions, you no longer have an excuse to pirate for "trying it out". >>


What about after 30 days?



<< So yes, tm37, does have both the legal and moral justification to "belittle" you. >>


You get more off the wall with every post you type. Really, think about what your saying. You break a law we have the right to belittle and talk down to you. Get real.



<< My problem isn't that stealing is justified. It's that you can't quite seem to find a way to comprehend that not everyone has your moral values and your sense of obligation. Instead, you feel justified to belittle people because of it. >>


Right on.



<< As have development costs and piracy rates! >>


But the way you speak it, software prices should go down. And at the same time, the number of users increases as well.



<< Gee Thanks But My point is that I can look at what I have and know I earned it my parents didn't give me anything. I had to WORK if I wanted something and I make choices on how to spend my money. I don't look at theivery as a viable option. >>


This is not a "lets have tm37 lecture us with his life story and moral standing" session. Frankly I don't care how you run your life or what you have. I work and pay my damned bills the same way you do. WHAT MAKES YOU SO MUCH BETTER??



<< Your argument wouldn't be so intolerable if the crime you are engaging in wasn't victimless. But there ARE victims from the trading of warez, and that's the software makers and the legitimate consumers of their products. The argument of "well, I wouldn't buy the software if I had to pay for it" is moot because you aren't doing them any favors buy using pirated copies! Lemme steal this copy of Max Payne just to show Gathering of Developers that I like their work. Geez, where's the logic??? >>


Your logic is so poor you don't even get the point.



<< Take jaywalking for instance. It's illegal and endangers the lives of motorists and pedestrians alike. That's why it's illegal. I can ask people not to jaywalk. I can not jaywalk myself. I can debate until I'm blue in the face that it's a moral and legal sin and that jaywalkers are a dangerous element in society. But would I be justified by saying that all jaywalkers are irresponsible citizens who would all make unfit parents and were raised by slack-off parents themselves? I didn't think so either. Most of us have jaywalked before in our lives. There are victims of it every year. Does that mean that the majority of people were raised by shoddy parents? >>


Exactly. Same thing for all petty crimes people break everyday.

People should read yoda's post more. He has a firm grasp on LIFE.
 

Swag1138

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2000
3,444
0
0


<<
From my external, anonymous perspective, both of you are "troubled", that's pretty clear. Whether you realize it or not, you are "troubled" by the realization that the activities you engage in (warez) are not being accepted by others. This bothers you both. Your reputation is being questioned, so you are engaging your natural defenses. This defense comes in the form of repeated denial of wrong-doing. You believe, from repetition, that you are in the right...or at least, not in the wrong.
>>




I can see where you would come to that conclusion, but you couldnt be more wrong. If I cared about my reputation, I would be out and about doing my best to not be considered a geek/nerd/dork/whatnot by everyone around. I would try and be seen as the coolest guy in the world. I would NOT be sitting at a computer typing an argument to a person I have never before, and probably never will have, seen in my life. Does that seem like an action a person concerned with their reputation would undertake? I do NOT go around bragging about how I get warez cause its fun, or how much warez I have, or how many gigs of MP3s I have. I do know that its wrong. I merely choose to do wrong because its easier than doing right. Is this justifying myself? I dont think so. I make no excuses for myself in that statement, other than Im lazy, and, as I stated before, an evil bastard.

What Im trying to say is YOU have no more right to tell me what Im doing is wrong (when I full well know its wrong) than I do of telling you that your a hypocritical windbag (when you full well know you are).

I know that I can just not read any posts about this, and thus avoid the problem, but that would mean avoiding Anandtech alltogether, because they have a habit of popping up now and again.


And Yoda, I apologize for ruining the first and most important meal of the day for you
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
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<< This is not a "lets have tm37 lecture us with his life story and moral standing" session. Frankly I don't care how you run your life or what you have. I work and pay my damned bills the same way you do. WHAT MAKES YOU SO MUCH BETTER?? >>



Well for one thing I'm not a theif.
 

Swag1138

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2000
3,444
0
0


<<

<< This is not a "lets have tm37 lecture us with his life story and moral standing" session. Frankly I don't care how you run your life or what you have. I work and pay my damned bills the same way you do. WHAT MAKES YOU SO MUCH BETTER?? >>



Well for one thing I'm not a theif.
>>




So? Have you never told a lie? Have you never gone over the speed limit? Have you never run a stopsign or redlight? Have you never thought bad things about somone? Have you never cussed? Have you never THOUGHT of cussing?

If the answer to every one of those questions is yes, then *holds out his hand* Pleased to meet you Jesus, I didnt expect you back so soon.


Otherwise, just go stand over there and be quiet.
"Beter to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<<
Well for one thing I'm not a theif.
>>



Good for you. We still don't care and I'm still sleeping like a baby.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0
It's nice to see that theivery is an accepted practice.

It's also nice to see that I am the bad guy for questioning your morals WHEN IT COMES TO PIRACY.

You know when I catch me neice doing something she knows she should be normally she will attempt to deflect attention by calling out one of her siblings or my son for something they may have done. It doesn't work with her.


Yes I have been known to speed, I would say I am honest to a fault though. You ask me a question and I will tell you EXACTLY how I feel. I don't pull punches.

basically what you are saying is that because I happen do drive 5 MPH over the limit, I cannot question your morals? Comeon try an audlt arguement please.

Yes I swear but again while that may be a sin, it isn't theft.

I can't ever remember running a red light PURPOSEFULLY.

Nor do any of thoose acts take something without paying the respective OWNER for it.







<< What Im trying to say is YOU have no more right to tell me what Im doing is wrong (when I full well know its wrong) than I do of telling you that your a hypocritical windbag (when you full well know you are). >>



Please expain to me why me thinking THEIVERY is horrid and peoples justification of it makes me a hipocrite because I speed. Please get real, lets see one example of how my traveling with the flow on the freeway costs you a dime. If piracy was stopped then software prices would drop AND the product would be easier to use and install as well as make legitimate back-ups.

So the only vice you have is theft, make I jshank your hand because I just met a lyer AND a theif!
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< It's also nice to see that I am the bad guy for questioning your morals WHEN IT COMES TO PIRACY. >>



Awww...someone needs a hug. Youu're not the bad guy. I am. As I've said before...

I'm a baaaaaddd man...
I'm not ashamed of...
A baaaaaddd man...



<< Yes I have been known to speed, I would say I am honest to a fault though. You ask me a question and I will tell you EXACTLY how I feel. I don't pull punches. >>



I speed too! I got a $430 for doing double the speed limit. I guess that makes me even worse!



<< I can't ever remember running a red light PURPOSEFULLY. >>



Heheheh...::hides other ticket...::



<< Nor do any of thoose acts take something without paying the respective OWNER for it. >>



No...but they do something even worse: Endanger the lives of people. I probably have no right to say this since I do it by my own will...but there are no situations where theft will cause injury or death to a human being other than if you stole a old guys heart medicine or something...at which time, I would have to kick your ass. Speeding, running reds, etc can result in greater consequences than simple piracy.

Just to make this clear: As you said, piracy is wrong. I just simply don't give a damn.



<< Please expain to me why me thinking THEIVERY is horrid and peoples justification of it makes me a hipocrite because I speed. Please get real, lets see one example of how my traveling with the flow on the freeway costs you a dime. If piracy was stopped then software prices would drop AND the product would be easier to use and install as well as make legitimate back-ups. >>



Yeah right. As we've mentioned, demand for a software title will not cause the price to drop. It will cause the big wigs to get another Ferrari.



<< So the only vice you have is theft, make I jshank your hand because I just met a lyer AND a theif! >>



And it's nice to meet you too.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
43
91
Ripped from my own posting here a while back



<< This is just my view, I am not saying anything is enharently right or wrong, this is just how I see it.

I've noticed something of a mixed bag of views on piracy on this board, but from what I can see most people here tend towards the all piracy is wrong/evil/must be stopped view. However most people who have voiced this opinion from what I can tell have been talking about people coppying software and trying to sell it, passing it off as legitimate software, perhaps to make a quick buck or as a genuine source of illegal income. This kind of piracy I am definetly against, here the seller is directly proffiting off the pirated software and the end user is getting jipted. I noticed someone a while back said that most people pirate games, that is they buy CD burners to pirate games, while full software packages are not as big a target because people who want that kind of software shell out the money to buy it. The way I see things is I would much rather spend my money on the game and risk using a pirated version of office/windows, not because games are hard to pirate but becuase the large software packages are often horrendously expensive. If I'm going to spend $800 I would gladly spend it on 8 or 9 games over the course of a year and use a pirated copy of Adobe Premiere on the side now and then rather than spend the whole year saving and spend the whole amount on Premiere, and end up using it only ocasionally. I know there are hundreds nay tens of thousands of people out there buying ligitimate copies of Premiere and using it every day for hard work. I do not support the piracy of software for that kind of use, but from what I can see the majority of pirated software is used in the manner I described above, which I don't have a problem with. Anyway now that I'm finished my rant. Anyone want to jump in and voice their comment/opinion?
>>

 

McPhreak

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2000
3,808
1
0
Hey RoninRXN, I was wondering if you could post some Jaymee O....oops. Wrong thread.

Haha. This is a funny thread. You guys crack me up.
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< Hey RoninRXN, I was wondering if you could post some Jaymee O....oops. Wrong thread.

Haha. This is a funny thread. You guys crack me up.
>>



Dude...read the thread and you'll know why Jay-Jay ain't there.

Yeah, I know. I find it hilarious when I check up in here that tm37 still doesn't realize that I and countless others still don't give a damn.
 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
4,375
0
0


<<
Ah, but you aren't seeing this correctly! Software is product. It may not be tangible like a car, but it is still product. There are no moral issues at all with reselling software that you buy legally, decide you didn't like and remove from your PC (as long as the EULA permits resale...for instance, most academic licenses forbid it). Reselling software is essentially no different than reselling a car. Am I denying revenue to Honda if I sell my Accord to somebody else? That person could afford to buy a new Accord, but they chose to buy my used one. A person who buys my used car is not denying the manufacturer revenue...because if we were all unable to resell used cars (and unwanted software), few could manage to buy new cars. Do you understand why your logic is flawed? Reselling software (within the limits of the license) is entirely legal AND moral.
>>



I understand your point, but if people choose to only pirate when they genuinely cannot afford the product, or in the other circumstances which I outlined in detail earlier, then those pirates are not denying my company revenue any more than the person who is reselling the Honda, and possibly less so since they are not taking away another potential customer. I realize that reselling software is perfectly legitimate and legal, that's why I used it to illustrate my point.



<<
That teen never gave you a dime, but at least the person who resold your software gave you revenue when they bought the software originally. What kind of users would you rather have? The dead-beat, non-paying kind, or the reselling kind who start off with legitimate paid copies?
>>



Well, of course a company will strive to gain the paying customers...there is absolutely no reason to cater to those who do not pay, but there is not necessarily any reason to persecute them either, unless they are those who do it just because they can, and not out of any necessity or any intention to buy at a future date. I feel that the software companies are not hurt by pirates, as long as the pirates would not have ever paid for the software anyway. If I make a game and 5 people get together to buy that game and share it amongst eachother, and that is the only way they would have been able to afford the game, then as far as I'm concerned, that's wonderful, we made money.
 



<< Well for one thing I'm not a theif. >>





<< If piracy was stopped then software prices would drop AND the product would be easier to use and install as well as make legitimate back-ups. >>


Easier to use and install? Yea, piracy goes away and the programmers are donned with magical abilities. I bet if piracy goes away, the developers still get paid the same.
And who has time to backup a software package? By the time you need to use a backup 13 other versions have been released.



<< Nor do any of thoose acts take something without paying the respective OWNER for it. >>


Yor're right. But when you do a rolling stop or ever get pulled over for a ticket, that costs me the tax payer money.



<< It's nice to see that theivery is an accepted practice. >>


When it comes to software, sure. Robbing a car, no.

What about copy machines. Thoes must be a work of the devil! right?
 

McPhreak

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2000
3,808
1
0


<<

<< Hey RoninRXN, I was wondering if you could post some Jaymee O....oops. Wrong thread.

Haha. This is a funny thread. You guys crack me up.
>>



Dude...read the thread and you'll know why Jay-Jay ain't there.

Yeah, I know. I find it hilarious when I check up in here that tm37 still doesn't realize that I and countless others still don't give a damn.
>>



Yeah, I was just pullin' your chain. All I know is that you are the man with the asian pics thread. We need more Good Samaritans like you.
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< What about copy machines. Thoes must be a work of the devil! right? >>



Mama from The Waterboy: "I don't want you goin' near them copy machines! They're the devil!"
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<<

<<

<< Hey RoninRXN, I was wondering if you could post some Jaymee O....oops. Wrong thread.

Haha. This is a funny thread. You guys crack me up.
>>



Dude...read the thread and you'll know why Jay-Jay ain't there.

Yeah, I know. I find it hilarious when I check up in here that tm37 still doesn't realize that I and countless others still don't give a damn.
>>



Yeah, I was just pullin' your chain. All I know is that you are the man with the asian pics thread. We need more Good Samaritans like you.
>>



Then you'll be pleased to know that I have my uploading fixed and there are new updates. =)

Ahem...donations are accepted.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Is it a crime if a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family?

No.

Now what if this man's family did not like bread. What if they liked cigarettes? Is it a crime then?

No.

Now what if this man had a very large family? Is it still a crime?

No.

Now what if instead of giving away the cigarettes to his family, he sold them at a price that was practically giving them away? Is it still a crime?

Hell no.

 

yoda291

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,079
0
0


<< We all break laws. Speeding is my vice. Do I try to rationalize and justify my behavior? Yes, I do. Again, that's part of the natural tendency to protect oneself from scrutiny. I try to justify speeding from the personal "discovery" - drawn from experience - that speeding produces gains (quicker, more pleasurable travel) without creating undue losses (crashes and injuries)...in my perspective. It's my perspective because I've never been in a situation where speeding has produced a bad end, though "experts" can produce documentation that says risks increase with speed. As time goes by, however, the cumulative experience of being able to speed without causing harm becomes a strong rationalization against submissiveness to traffic law.

Perhaps you are rationalizing in a similar manner. You download warez, find the act pleasurable (save money) and you repeatedly do it and realize the risks of getting caught are fairly low. You think you are in the green...or at least, you think nobody has the right to tell you that you are wrong. However, there is a clear differentiation from somebody who speeds and somebody who pirates software. A speeder, while charged with increasing the risk of injuries to himself and others, is not harming others simply by speeding. Speeding itself is more or less subjective and often speed law is dictated by revenue concerns (hick towns with 25mph speed zones) than rational sense. However, a warez addict is harming others from the very first download. You are taking somebody else's property without their permission. It's that simple. Unlike speeding, pirating creates a bad end right from the start. Neither activity is moral behavior, but one is definitely more objectionable.
>>



and, like you say, you justify your moral vice. I can say that it's wrong. I can argue that because of people speeding, insurance rates are higher than they should be, and it promotes reckless behavior which costs people their lives. You can choose to agree or disagree as you see fit. But do I go on and call you a scumbag because people like you threaten the lives of me, my family, and my friends? Am I entitled to stare down at you and say you're a worthless piece of filth that doesn't deserve the air you consume because you're an endangerment to yourself and others around you? You justify your speeding in that some areas are doing so to raise revenue. I have actually seen this first hand. I've been to public town meetings where the sentence, "Last month's intake of revenue was down, ergo, I put for the proposition to lower the speed limit on "" street by 5 mph" has come up. Are you suddenly not required to follow the limit because of it? The fact is, you justify your actions, but it's not like you don't know it's illegal. You don't stand by the door, waiting for the dmv to come and congratulate you on your speeding. Likewise, I doubt any pirater stands by the phone waiting for MS to call and ask "how's that pirated copy workin out for you?". Does this speeding somehow make you less human then? Does it mean that somehow you are degraded? You aren't as worthy of life as you were 30 seconds ago when you were obeying the speed limit? Am I to instantly assume you're some wealthy playboy with no regard for the law? No...which is why, whether or not I agree with your actions, I won't treat you as such. For as much as I disagree with some of tm37's points, I don't believe he is an idiot or a moron who could easily get away with not paying his software. Many of his arguments make sense to me, which is why I respect them, but I still reserve the right to be able to disagree with them and on the presumptions on which they're based. Apparently though, my thoughts counter to the point are not received very well and I am personally criticized for making them. I don't really expect him to suddenly go "Oh my gosh, you're right! I should start pirating right away to make up for lost time", but neither do I expect him to go "You're a moron for thinking that way".
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< Is it a crime if a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family?

No.

Now what if this man's family did not like bread. What if they liked cigarettes? Is it a crime then?

No.

Now what if this man had a very large family? Is it still a crime?

No.

Now what if instead of giving away the cigarettes to his family, he sold them at a price that was practically giving them away? Is it still a crime?

Hell no.

>>



All of life's truths can be found in the wit that is The Simpsons
 
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