Software Pirating. . .your take

[RedFox1]

SammySon: Haha, OK whatever you say. If you feel the need to vent anymore, use PM. Otherwise try to keep it on topic, and cut out the personal attacks. I'm not going to hijack a whole thread just to quibble with you.

-Russ

 

[jhu]

ok, i'm convinced. no more pirating for me

 

[RoninRXN]

<< ok, i'm convinced. no more pirating for me >>



Noooooo! Don't go to the Dark...er...the Light Side!

<deep breathing...> You don't know the power of the Dark Side....

...and plus, we have more fun that those guys.

 

[RedFox1]

ok, i'm convinced. no more pirating for me

Jhu: Seriously? If so, what was it that convinced you? (If you don't mind me asking.)

-Russ

 

[jhu]

linux

 

[killface]

<< moral indignation is jealousy with a halo >>


Nice sig, Jhu, nice sig.

 

[jhu]

hey y'all, it's lowercase 'j', 'k?

 

<< SammySon: Haha, OK whatever you say. If you feel the need to vent anymore, use PM. Otherwise try to keep it on topic, and cut out the personal attacks. I'm not going to hijack a whole thread just to quibble with you. >>



Keep it on topic? Who was the one who went on a partial moral rant to me? That would be you.

If you attack my moral structure, expect a personal attack back.

 

[AmRoD]

For as long as there will be software ppl will be copying it (just like as long as there is cable tv ppl still steal it)... but going after ppl who pirate it is just a waste of priorities, Come on did they really have to when there is a threat of terrorism and drug smuggling?

Busting all these priates was a cheap shot by the feds to look like there actually doin something since they haven't done sh1t nothing to impact on drug trade or terrorism!

 

<< Busting all these priates was a cheap shot by the feds to look like there actually doin something since they haven't done sh1t nothing to impact on drug trade or terrorism! >>



Right on! Although the War on Drugs was just a BS thing anyway.

 

[mithrandir2001]

<< But you have to realize that not everyone shares your belief system and your set of values. Maybe in your perfect little world, everyone would, but not here. >>


Sorry, but you have confused this for a religion thread. This argument has little to do with beliefs, values and morals. It has to do with truths.

Person A creates something. Person B wants it. Person B doesn't want to pay for it so Person B steals it. Any decent human will understand that this "transaction" is wrong. There are certain rules we must follow to earn the distinction of being civil instead of being barbarian. Religion and subjective morality have little to do with this. If the world was atheist, man would still understand that killing another man is wrong...just as it is wrong to steal from others. We have these core, essential ideals to preserve the fiber of society and civil existence. Without these ideals, our society would crumble and fall.

No, not everybody shares in the ideals of civil society and that's why we have animals like Osama bin Laden, Hitler and Stalin. Can I compare people who download warez to these evil men? I must, of course, consider the severity of evil deeds. Download warez is far less severe than sending millions to their deaths. But despite the disparity in severity, both actions exhibit the same disgard for the rules of civility. At the very deepest core, they are the same.

Occasionally I interview candidates who want to work in my department. My manager will do the hiring, but I act as a filter to enhance her decision-making process. From the exchanges in this thread, I am motivated to come up with an interview question that would identify how a candidate perceives the implications of warez. The question would have to be devised so that the answer would require more than just a yes and no response, and speak intently about the candidate's character.


<< WE DON'T CARE! >>


I see. You don't care, but obviously you care enough to make your lack of caring known. I haven't contributed to this thread recently because I perceived that the participants saw this as a battle where the victors were the ones with the most posts. If side A gets 70% of the responses, then side A must certainly be right, goes the logic. I gain nothing from that flawed criterion of victory.

You don't care, but you should care because if you don't comprehend the basic rules that humans need to live by, you may not be able to differentiate between right and wrong when there are lives on the line. Warez equates to economic loss. But who is to say that a mind that can justify another's economic loss cannot also justify another's personal loss? Can you?


<< If it weren't for warez, I couldn't afford to buy the stuff I HAVE to buy. >>


If this is true, then what you consider to be a "HAVE" is truly a "want". You really don't need a lot of money to survive, so the fact you have a computer with internet access suggests you have a bit more money than is necessary for survival.

Of course, you may have been rhetorical. I HAVE to have broadband. But my body will continue to exist if I don't have it; therefore it is really a want, even if I don't want to admit it.


<< are you telling me you wouldn't steal a loaf of bread for your family if they were starving? >>


This is a hypothetical question. My hypothetical answer is indeed, I would steal a loaf of bread for my family if not stealing the bread meant death. But that goes without considering the alternatives that would be available in our modern society.


<< Later on when I look back at my life, I'm gonna be much happier thinking "I had more cool stuff than those guys..." than I would be thinking "Hey, I lived with integrity." >>


By the time you are 60, you will have changed your statement.

 

[jhu]

if it weren't for warez i wouldn't be able to play games like loderunner or karateka since they don't sell them anymore

 

[RoninRXN]

<< Sorry, but you have confused this for a religion thread. This argument has little to do with beliefs, values and morals. It has to do with truths. >>



Who are you to tell us what is true, then?



<< Person A creates something. Person B wants it. Person B doesn't want to pay for it so Person B steals it. Any decent human will understand that this "transaction" is wrong. There are certain rules we must follow to earn the distinction of being civil instead of being barbarian. Religion and subjective morality have little to do with this. If the world was atheist, man would still understand that killing another man is wrong...just as it is wrong to steal from others. We have these core, essential ideals to preserve the fiber of society and civil existence. Without these ideals, our society would crumble and fall. >>



And this is why people like you keep society from crumbling while the people with no ethics like me get to play.



<< No, not everybody shares in the ideals of civil society and that's why we have animals like Osama bin Laden, Hitler and Stalin. Can I compare people who download warez to these evil men? I must, of course, consider the severity of evil deeds. Download warez is far less severe than sending millions to their deaths. But despite the disparity in severity, both actions exhibit the same disgard for the rules of civility. At the very deepest core, they are the same. >>



Osama says "Merry Christmas" BTW

Occasionally I interview candidates who want to work in my department. My manager will do the hiring, but I act as a filter to enhance her decision-making process. From the exchanges in this thread, I am motivated to come up with an interview question that would identify how a candidate perceives the implications of warez. The question would have to be devised so that the answer would require more than just a yes and no response, and speak intently about the candidate's character.

Of course...if we steal...what's to keep me from lying about warez!? What? Are you gonna come to my house and look around for CD-Rs?



<< I see. You don't care, but obviously you care enough to make your lack of caring known. I haven't contributed to this thread recently because I perceived that the participants saw this as a battle where the victors were the ones with the most posts. If side A gets 70% of the responses, then side A must certainly be right, goes the logic. I gain nothing from that flawed criterion of victory. >>



Yep. He who say it the loudest wins. I care only enough about this because this thread is hilarious.



<< You don't care, but you should care because if you don't comprehend the basic rules that humans need to live by, you may not be able to differentiate between right and wrong when there are lives on the line. Warez equates to economic loss. But who is to say that a mind that can justify another's economic loss cannot also justify another's personal loss? Can you? >>



It doesn't equate economic loss for me. It equates economic gain.



<< If this is true, then what you consider to be a "HAVE" is truly a "want". You really don't need a lot of money to survive, so the fact you have a computer with internet access suggests you have a bit more money than is necessary for survival. >>



Dammit...don't bring up basic needs again. We already discussed that.



<< By the time you are 60, you will have changed your statement. >>



I doubt it. If I don't have ethics now, I doubt I will 40 years from now.

 

[tm37]

<< Busting all these priates was a cheap shot by the feds to look like there actually doin something since they haven't done sh1t nothing to impact on drug trade or terrorism! >>



We should only inforce the laws that we want, why have the laws if we don't inforce them?






<< Someday you will learn that you know nothing about me or my life. Don't pass judgement upon me like I don't understand that simple point you made. If you were following the 200 posts of this thread you would know WHY I responded the way I did. >>



I pass judgement on what your actions that you let us know you have made. As I have said before THERE IS NO VIABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR STEALING! No matter how you slice it your theivery cannot be made to sound any better by claiming the great deads you may have accomplished in your life. WHat are they? For me it's easy, I am able to support my family and live fairly comfortable without engaging in illegal or immoral activities. I do an honest job, I give my employer every bit of effort I can, I give my customers an Honest evaluation of there equiptment that I service and don't have to lie or cheat to get by. You however have reached some mystical level of success and have no problem stealing and cheating to get there. While your level of success may be higher I assure you I wouldn't trade places with you for a second. People trust and respect me because I am honest and forthright. That is worth more than any amount of money in my book.

 

[RoninRXN]

<< I pass judgement on what your actions that you let us know you have made. As I have said before THERE IS NO VIABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR STEALING! No matter how you slice it your theivery cannot be made to sound any better by claiming the great deads you may have accomplished in your life. WHat are they? For me it's easy, I am able to support my family and live fairly comfortable without engaging in illegal or immoral activities. I do an honest job, I give my employer every bit of effort I can, I give my customers an Honest evaluation of there equiptment that I service and don't have to lie or cheat to get by. You however have reached some mystical level of success and have no problem stealing and cheating to get there. While your level of success may be higher I assure you I wouldn't trade places with you for a second. People trust and respect me because I am honest and forthright. That is worth more than any amount of money in my book. >>



Then I feel sorry for you. You are living your ideals, which is not the way the world works. Good for you. You live an honest life. However, we have more stuff.

He who dies with the most toys wins.

If your conscience can't let you pirate stuff, that's your problem. Mine does. The devil on my shoulder is a big mofo and he killed the angel a long time ago.

 

[zbalat]

The horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp beyond recognition. Nothing anyone says here will change the way we live our lives.

If you want to steal do it (and be a worthless loser)
If you don't, don't

 

<< I see. You don't care, but obviously you care enough to make your lack of caring known. I haven't contributed to this thread recently because I perceived that the participants saw this as a battle where the victors were the ones with the most posts. If side A gets 70% of the responses, then side A must certainly be right, goes the logic. I gain nothing from that flawed criterion of victory. >>


You keep posting, something must keep you coming back. And your STILL repeating yourself.



<< I pass judgement on what your actions that you let us know you have made. As I have said before THERE IS NO VIABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR STEALING! No matter how you slice it your theivery cannot be made to sound any better by claiming the great deads you may have accomplished in your life. WHat are they? For me it's easy, I am able to support my family and live fairly comfortable without engaging in illegal or immoral activities. I do an honest job, I give my employer every bit of effort I can, I give my customers an Honest evaluation of there equiptment that I service and don't have to lie or cheat to get by. You however have reached some mystical level of success and have no problem stealing and cheating to get there. While your level of success may be higher I assure you I wouldn't trade places with you for a second. People trust and respect me because I am honest and forthright. That is worth more than any amount of money in my book. >>


First of all jesus, where in my posts did I say I pirate software? You and mithrandir2001 seem to think that because im arguing the point against you, must mean I'm guilty. I do most of my debating for the learning and entertainment value. Which you both have heaftily provided. Most of my posts have had to do with dispelling the goodytwoshoes comments you guys post regularly.
Everything you mentioned, I do the same, really, I'm NOT IMPRESSED YOU CAN MAINTAIN YOUR LIFE! That is BARE MINIMUM. I hope your not proud of that fact, millions of others do it everyday, including me.



<< No, not everybody shares in the ideals of civil society and that's why we have animals like Osama bin Laden, Hitler and Stalin. Can I compare people who download warez to these evil men? I must, of course, consider the severity of evil deeds. Download warez is far less severe than sending millions to their deaths. But despite the disparity in severity, both actions exhibit the same disgard for the rules of civility. At the very deepest core, they are the same. >>


Your going off the deep end.



<< Of course, you may have been rhetorical. I HAVE to have broadband. But my body will continue to exist if I don't have it; therefore it is really a want, even if I don't want to admit it. >>


Again, as someone else said, you only NEED food and water. Why do you even make simple comparisons like that when you KNOW society is structured so much differently.

All of the arguements made apply to PHYSICAL RESULTS OF PRODUCTION. I take it, YOU don't have it anymore.
They do not apply to, I copied it, you lost POSSIBLE revenue. They did not lose a physical product, or money. In reality, that revenue is NEVER possible in many cases. Many would NEVER use the software if they could not get it copied.

Now if copying is wrong and is a crime. How does that apply to copy machines and material being used in research? Or students using copywritten material for Media Productions related projects.
They did not pay for that book, or for that right to use that footage from video tapes. So all the schools and teachers and students MUST be immoral bastards.

Or can you make an exception for that?
Remember,

<< THERE IS NO VIABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR STEALING! >>



Or how about software companies that use spy techniques, or they take a competitors software and decompile it? Isn't that stealing?
Or is that ok too?

 

[tm37]

<< Then I feel sorry for you. You are living your ideals, which is not the way the world works. Good for you. You live an honest life. However, we have more stuff.

He who dies with the most toys wins.

If your conscience can't let you pirate stuff, that's your problem. Mine does. The devil on my shoulder is a big mofo and he killed the angel a long time ago >>



Your parents must be so proud.



Sammyson After reading this-

<< First of all jesus, where in my posts did I say I pirate software? >>



I looked back and saw this posted under your name.



<< Well what other choices do I have son? I already get bsd for free. And there is not much choice with MS business tactics. >>





<< And still a quite a bit more then I can afford for the software. Combine it all, its quite a pretty penny. >>



And the kicker-



<< True, never paid for it before, don't have much intention on doing that in the future. The only scenario where its needed is in a business environment. >>



Did someone steal your logon name and make these posts? I am really confused because you can't seem to decide what you are doingre you infact using legally obtained software or are you stealing? Makeup your mind and get back to me.



<< Everything you mentioned, I do the same, really, I'm NOT IMPRESSED YOU CAN MAINTAIN YOUR LIFE! That is BARE MINIMUM. I hope your not proud of that fact, millions of others do it everyday, including me. >>



Accually I have quite a bit more than the bare minimum! The difference is I earned ALL OF IT. I don't have to look at anything and question the morals I had to comprimise in order to get it. THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF! When i see people who whine and bitch that they NEED something OR that it's ok for me to STEAL because I wouldn't pay for it in the first place, I am really in amazement, I just can't unfderstand how some people are unwilling to do whats right if it may be just a little bit harder.

 

[Mursilis]

<< If you attack my moral structure, expect a personal attack back. >>



You mean lack of moral structure, right?:disgust:

 

[RoninRXN]

<< Your parents must be so proud. >>



Why, thank you. They are. In fact, I told my parents the primary reason I wanted DSL was to download warez and mp3s off the internet. It would save me hundreds of dollars a year. I mean, as you said, why would you need broadband for anything else?

Financial genius, I tell you.



<< Accually I have quite a bit more than the bare minimum! The difference is I earned ALL OF IT. I don't have to look at anything and question the morals I had to comprimise in order to get it. THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF! When i see people who whine and bitch that they NEED something OR that it's ok for me to STEAL because I wouldn't pay for it in the first place, I am really in amazement, I just can't unfderstand how some people are unwilling to do whats right if it may be just a little bit harder. >>



Oh, I've earned quite a bit. I bought my first car two years ago and I'm saving up for a better one now. I buy my own rigs and everything. I don't need to pay tuition though...scholarship takes care of that.

I don't consider software earning at all. It was free in the first place and is a very, very small part of the big picture. If I steal it, so be it. All I know is there's more money in the car fund this way.

Devil Ronin on my shoulder: Damn straight.

 

[RedFox1]

I'm by no means an expert on ethics, but I did take a couple electives in college (business ethics mostly; I went to a business school.) I think the most useful idea I picked up in those classes was this criteria: "If you're considering doing something that you wouldn't want someone else to do, chances are it's wrong."

Unfortunately what I'm reading here, over and over again, is that you guys understand that software piracy is wrong and don't care. I get the sense that you enjoy it more because it's wrong. That's pretty disturbing to me.

So I guess my question is "Why don't you care?" You'd be angry if someone broke the law in a way that hurt you -- so why do you think it's alright to break the law at the expense of others?

-Russ

 

[BlackSoul]

<< So I guess my question is "Why don't you care?" >>



CAUSE IT'S THUNDERDOME, BABY!!!!

I never really thought why. I guess you can call it a gift, I can just tell when I could give a rat's a$$ about something. Look, I have enough to worry about, ie. mortgage, car payment, insurance etc. etc. etc., that i am not going to worry about how somebody looks down thier nose at me because I chose to download warez instead of paying for them. I also will not lose any sleep or get ulcers from worrying about if some self-rightous yo-yo gets his thong in a bunch because I don't subscribe to his beliefs.

 

[cuteybunny]

shhh shhh do not admit to your piracy im sure most of us do it but we dont want to encourage it do we? as it is a very personal thing just like we do all sort of thing illegally but privately that who knows what. there are some people given the choice to use it freely, would rather buy it, they are hard to understand and i just leave them be. i think it nice that you don't have to buy it because most of the software today are highly overpriced costing an arm and a leg . I dont think most of us can afford everything if we had to buy it all, unless you really rich like bill gate most software are pretty useless that cost hundreds except bill gate's windows which is most useful out of them all. look at games 49.95, 59.95 ridiculous something you would only play for a few hours and that's it. overpriced software packages cause people to pirate, there is nothing wrong with that.


q]I copy everything.. if I like it alot/use it alot, I BUY IT.. it's the whole theory behind MP3's (the theory people want to believe you believe in)

pirating for me, is a test phase.[/i] >>

 

[RoninRXN]

<<

<< So I guess my question is "Why don't you care?" >>



CAUSE IT'S THUNDERDOME, BABY!!!!

I never really thought why. I guess you can call it a gift, I can just tell when I could give a rat's a$$ about something. Look, I have enough to worry about, ie. mortgage, car payment, insurance etc. etc. etc., that i am not going to worry about how somebody looks down thier nose at me because I chose to download warez instead of paying for them. I also will not lose any sleep or get ulcers from worrying about if some self-rightous yo-yo gets his thong in a bunch because I don't subscribe to his beliefs. >>



LOL!

<---- still a bad man that's going to sleep.

 

[nape]

The last piece of software I paid for? Quake 3, two days after it came out.

The last CD [non-CD-R] I bought? Juvenile - 400 Degreez, the day it came out.

Those purchases were about 2 years ago. Do I expect this post to be pulled apart bit by bit? Yes, because almost every other one here has been. My reason/excuse for not paying? Probably the fact that if I can't pirate it, I don't really need it. Do I loose any sleep at night because I don't pay for the software that I use and the 500 albums of MP3s I have? Not a wink.