Software Pirating. . .your take

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BCompDude

Member
Jul 30, 2001
107
0
0


<< You mention that you "buy" all your games...what about your OS? Or Office applications? Do you buy all of those, too? >>



I now mention that I "buy" all of my OS and Office applications.
 

MiniGolfIsFun

Senior member
Jun 6, 2001
273
0
0


<< 46. I got those from the artist's websites and mp3.com, all legally. >>



That's good for you notfred. What I want to say is that you would seriously be about 1 in a million.
 

Murphyrulez

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2001
1,890
0
0


<< No he's not. You can't be guilty of murder jsut for knowing someone else was murdered. >>



I think the correct analogy would be:

You can't be guilty of murder just for knowing that someone MURDERED someone else and not saying anything.

And your analogy is wrong. You are guilty if you know the murderer, and he is free and you don't report him.

Paul
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0


<<

<< No he's not. You can't be guilty of murder jsut for knowing someone else was murdered. >>



I think the correct analogy would be:

You can't be guilty of murder just for knowing that someone MURDERED someone else and not saying anything.

And your analogy is wrong. You are guilty if you know the murderer, and he is free and you don't report him.

Paul
>>



You're not guilty of murder for that.
 

VirusDub

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2001
1,111
0
0
I've pirated software before. Not much, but some. I rarely pirate games, mainly because of them aren't very appealing to me. And software that I actually use a lot, I usually buy. Most of the mp3s I download are either of old vinyls I own or cassettes that have broken or been eaten by tape decks. And yes, I know what it's like to have intellectual property taken from me, it used to happen all the time back in comp sci in high school.
 

BCompDude

Member
Jul 30, 2001
107
0
0


<< oh come on, you aren't concerned......... so the guys who made it can only buy 3 houses, 1 ferrari and 1 porsche instead of 5 houses, 1 ferrari, 1 lambghorini, and 1 porsche.... give me a break >>



Don't tell me what I am or am not concerned about. You have no clue. I am concerned because pirating hurts the game publishers. . .hurts my hobby. If it keeps going they will stop making games for PC and just move to consoles. And they don't make a lot of money like you assume. It takes a LOT of money to make a game. . .and time. They deserve the money. If you don't have the money, then either don't buy it or wait until you have the money/price drop.

On the example of pirating to "test" thats bs. Its called a demo.
 

RedFox1

Senior member
Aug 22, 2000
587
0
76
When I got to college and suddenly had access to any piece of software, music, or (eventually) movie that I could possibly want I took advantage of it. I never thought twice about it. My friends routinely came to me to get whatever they needed.

However, after a few years it occured to me that what I was doing was wrong. I now own legally own all my software, and only keep MP3s that I made myself from my own CD collection. I don't distribute any of my software, or my MP3s.

I think the problem is that it's socially acceptable to copy software. Very few people would think twice about talking about pirated software in mixed company. However these days, now that I've thought it through, I react very strongly when someone talks about their collection of pirated music. I won't build a PC anymore for anyone who won't pay for the OS in addition to the hardware.

I hope someday piracy will be more taboo, and authors/distributors will feel more comfortable releasing their software without the restrictive anti-piracy measures that are starting to pop up. (Like WinXP activation.)

-Russ
 

Murphyrulez

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2001
1,890
0
0
You may not be guilty of murder, but your poop chute is still going to take a licking and keep on tickin when they put you in prison.


Paul
 

Midnight Rambler, you speak like your soul was cleansed by the almighty. Ever break a law? I'm sure you have. Please, save it, there is enough hypocracy in the govt.

In the case of indie or smaller local bands, most fans are very supportive and are willing to pay. Same goes for smaller scenes, ie. techno, dnb etc.

Show me a list of businesses that went under because of piracy.

Zealots like you make me sick.
 

Cessna172

Member
Jan 8, 2001
183
0
0
I am kinda split on this issue. If there is software that someone would be willing and able to buy, then copying it or downloading it off the Internet is technically wrong. It doesn't bother me at all if people do it, but I do believe that if I copy a game or download something off the Internet that I would have gladly paid for if I didn't have the opportunity to steal it, then I think it's morally wrong. I may still do it because I don't care, but I know that's it's wrong.

However, there is a bit of a gray area in other cases. For instance, someone mentioned Photoshop. Photoshop, if bought legally, usually runs about $500 or more. Now, let's say (theoretically) that I have an illegal copy of Photoshop. I use it, and enjoy it. But if I couldn't steal it, would I have paid $500 for it? No--absolutely not. I could technically afford it, but it's not worth that much to me. So, if I couldn't steal it, I wouldn't be using it at all--I would seek out some cheaper alternative. Thus, am I really having a negative impact on Adobe by using it illegally? Since I wouldn't have bought it either way, they're not losing revenue by me using an illegal copy of it. It should make no difference to them financially. So, in this case, I am benefitting and they are not hurting either way.

Now, I know that it's a bit of a gray area morally--you could still argue that it's wrong. But, you have to admit that as long as I really wouldn't have bought it for $500, Adobe isn't hurting at all by me using an illegal copy. Stealing software is not like stealing a TV or something physical--it's just information. It doesn't cost them anything for me to make a copy.

We can apply this same logic to any software of any price. If I am using an illegal copy of say, some mediocre game that normally costs $40 to buy in the store. I may like the game, but if I had no way to copy it illegally, I wouldn't have paid $40 for it. Thus, I just plain would not be playing it--it's not worth that much to me. Therefore, again, that software company technically isn't hurting from me using an illegal copy. It may still be considered morally wrong, but they were not hurt by it.

However, if I am personally using an illegal copy of Quake 3--which costs about $30--then it's hurting id Software. Why? Because if I couldn't get my hands on an illegal copy, I would definitely buy it. Therefore, using an illegal copy is cheating id Software out of their chunk of the $30 I would have paid otherwise. In this case, it's definitely hurting that company. Luckily for id, they protect the multiplayer element (the best part) with a CD key system. This forces people who want full access to all online servers to break down and buy the game. It's the most effective form of copy protection I've encountered, and is a reason a lot of the people I know own legal copies of it and others such as Half-Life (to play Counter-Strike, etc).

So, the issue of how much it hurts the software industry comes down to whether of not the software is worth the price to the individual user. If upgrading my computer to Windows XP is honestly not worth $100 in my eyes, then Microsoft is no worse off if I use an illegal copy--they wouldn't have gotten my $100 either way. It may still be morally wrong, but the financial harm done is basically nothing.
 

lepper boy

Golden Member
Nov 2, 1999
1,877
0
76


<< You americans have got enough money to pay $300 for Windows. You go ahead. >>



We do?? I must live in the wrong part of the USA then......
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0


<< You may not be guilty of murder, but your poop chute is still going to take a licking and keep on tickin when they put you in prison.


Paul
>>



Well, let's put it this way, instead of using murder, lets use something relatively minor - how about speeding.

You're standing on the side of a road. The speed limit on this road is 25mph. You watch a car drive by going 45mph. 10 minutes later, a cop gets out of an unmarked car on the other side of the road, walks over to you, hands you a ticket for 45 in a 25, and expects you to pay it.

According to your logic, you deserved that ticket for not reporting the guy. (we'll assume there was a payphone near where you were standing - you could have called 911 on the guy)
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
I do it because I either don't want to or can't pay.


I got better stuff to spend money on.
 

Mucman

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,246
1
0



<< oh come on, you aren't concerned......... so the guys who made it can only buy 3 houses, 1 ferrari and 1 porsche instead of 5 houses, 1 ferrari, 1 lambghorini, and 1 porsche.... give me a break >>



OMG, that made be laugh really hard! Rich game programmers are a minority! There aren't a lot of Carmacks, Sweeneys, Shaefers out there... (apologies if I got any of their names spelled wrong). Most programmers are regular joes who just have a job like any other job. If you think all game programmers are like Carmack then I will take that as a compliment
 

yoda291

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,079
0
0
here's my experience with piracy

I have pieces of software that were copied, but then I usually obtain legally later on. I don't particularly think of myself as respectable as far as this goes, but I don't usually have a problem getting even the pieces with the most insane of pricetags. I mean, if I need it enough, I can usually find a way to make it work out that I don't have to scam it. Fortunately, if I can justify having a copy of software on my home computer, my job will usually spring for a license for me. Indeed, the only piece of software I have installed that could be deemed suspect is my copy of win2k, because I lost my product key and had to use one online. But I do have an actual license to use win2k. There are people who would take this as me being selfish in not waiting for my workplace to get another license or whatnot. Some would find this reasonable. I don't care.

I also realize that most people aren't as fortunate to have employers like mine, but somehow need the software anyways. To this, I think that there are ALMOST always alternatives to piracy. For instance. Before I got my own copy of Office, I was using the gratis StarOffice downloaded off of Sun. To this day, I believe that StarOffice is every bit as good as OfficeXP/2k, just maybe a steeper learning curve since most people are weaned on MS. As a server platform, I think that Linux is far superior to win2k server/adv server/pro server(tho I will admit, MS is getting better).

On the other hand, I once took a course where the professor required Photoshop 6.0. I was stuck with my "antiquated" copy of 5.5. I admit, I turned to the warez sites for it and I haven't looked back since(turns out, we didn't do anything that couldn't be done in 5.5, but the professor felt like being a fsck). Anyways, I later did scam a license outta my workplace to clean up some photographs for the web site, but if I hadn't, I'd prolly still be using 6.0 because I'm not so idealistic that I'll hold onto 5.5 when I have a copy of 6.0 sitting next to it.

Also, a few of my friends in law school found a loophole where you can legally own as many mp3s as you like. pm me if you want details.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
Software piracy is wrong and criminal, plain and simple. We may at times justify it but we deserve no cookies for our impropriety. Piracy is rampant mainly because the odds of getting caught and punished are low. Software creators will continue to try to protect their work through various protection schemes but must always expect some piracy. The situation will never be perfect for everyone.
 

MeanMeosh

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
3,805
1
0
i used to play starcraft, broodwars, q3a, half life counterstrike, unreal tournament, max payne, serious sam, ms flight sim, and also mechwarrior 4 that were copies of my friend's, and then when i realized that i liked them (about after playing 5 multiplayer games in one night) i went out and bought them all because i liked them and actually wanted to play them. i do not get the point of buying a $40 dollar game to only realize that it sucks later on. every store i have been to does not accept opened returned games. and i own all the mp3s on my comp on cds, and do not share them, i ripped them to use it with an mp3 player for the portability.

however, i do not have a problem with those who pirate, whatever rocks their boat, if they're caught, its their funeral.
 

C'DaleRider

Guest
Jan 13, 2000
3,048
0
0
I can't believe the people who continually try to rationalize stealing. I keep hearing "It's too expensive....." (the photoshop objection), or "I like to try it out.......I might buy it if I like it....", or It's overpriced, so it's alright if I liberate a copy.......", or "So what if the guy who wrote it con only buy one Porsche instead of two.......".

So far, those are so unconvincing...........just poor febile attempts at rationalizing stealing. Pure and simple.

Take this comment......

<< I just don't care. If I want a cd, a movie, or a piece of software, and I have an oppertunity to get it, i might . It may be considered stealing to you, but I just don't care. >>



Great.......I'll be over to your house soon and if I see a CD or DVD I like, I guess I'll just take it.........you've already given me implicit permission to do that.........you just don't care.

As far as I can't afford it so that makes it alright.......I suppose just wanting something makes it ok to go get it no matter what means it may take. So, I see a nice new Ferrari that I know I can't afford. But since it's really overpriced, it'll be alright for me to just take it.........according to many here, that'd be ok, too.

As far as "Someone won't be able to work without that expensive software......", Garbage. If a particular piece of software is critical to one's work, that person will find a way to purchase it, like a loan or credit card payment, or save for it. That argument falls flat when you consider many skilled jobs require special equipment that's expensive yet is actually purchased instead of stolen. Mechanic's tools or your dentist's office and dental equipment, for a couple of examples.............tools, specialized equipment purchased for specialized use, not stolen because it was going to cost some bucks to get it.

Grow up boys...........it's an adult world out there..........and the "It's ok" arguments you are presenting are so disingenuous that I wonder what the real working world holds in store for you.........

And this stuff just makes me wonder what kind of example you will present for your kids.......

and yes, I purchased all the software on my PC.

 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
$50 for a game that could suck, or even if it's good only have 10h worth of play in it, with no posibility of return haha no

You make a good game I will buy it for the multiplayer key after I try it out


well you can say that about concerts too then... easily spend 50 dollars on a ticket. $7-12 for a movie ticket +3 more for your food.. thats 10-15 for 2 hours
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
76
because its easy as 1,2,3 to copy a game... if it was harder and took more work not as many people would do it...
 

Raspewtin

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 1999
3,634
0
0
Reallly IMO an actual behavior has no moral attachment intrinsically, it's really the motivation behind that behavior that defines it's morality, and even then still only relative to the social atmosphere in which it happened. Whenever behaviors are categorized intrinisically for their moral value by an individual or institution (saying stealing is wrong for example), it's always done in order to achieve some measure of social control and for no other reason.
 

vtqanh

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
3,100
0
76


<< Now, I know that it's a bit of a gray area morally--you could still argue that it's wrong. But, you have to admit that as long as I really wouldn't have bought it for $500, Adobe isn't hurting at all by me using an illegal copy. Stealing software is not like stealing a TV or something physical--it's just information. It doesn't cost them anything for me to make a copy >>



Well, I think it does cost them. It's the similar idea to opportunity cost in Economics (not exactly the same but similar enough). They should have got that $500 when u use the software, but they didn't. So, indeed they lost $500. just my 0.02



<< can't believe the people who continually try to rationalize stealing. I keep hearing "It's too expensive....." (the photoshop objection), or "I like to try it out.......I might buy it if I like it....", or It's overpriced, so it's alright if I liberate a copy.......", or "So what if the guy who wrote it con only buy one Porsche instead of two.......". >>



Agree. They are the ones who made it. If u think it's expensive, then stay awayn from it. Expensiveness is not an excuse for stealing
 
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