Software Pirating. . .your take

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McPhreak

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2000
3,808
1
0
Do you think more people would legally obtain a copy of say Photoshop if they were to provide free upgrades to their "subscribers"? I would certainly consider shelling out a couple hundred for this app if they would provide free upgrades. As it is right now, I think many people don't even consider actually purchasing it because they know not only is it expensive, but it'll there will be a newer, improved version in 3 months. I'm sure if they would provide free upgrades, they could not only balance out their losses due to the free upgrades with an increased number of consumers, but they wouldn't have to worry as much about pirating.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0
The Photoshop "problem" is rather moot because Photoshop Elements (street price = ~$55) has much of the functionality of its big brother with the biggest difference being the lack of CMYK processing (it's RGB only), but most people don't need this. Graphics pros do, but they can certainly afford the full version of Photoshop.

I've found these forums to be very insightful; not for ideas, but more for understanding how the "scene" ticks.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0
Some winning posts:

---

A> "Hey, im new to the DC warez scene, and i borrowed my friends DC backups and tried to copy them, but they never seemed to work. I used diskjuggler and was wondering if it is possible to copy his backups. Any help would be greatly appreciated...didnt work with diskjuggler, and wasted about 10 cds. is there any 100% way to burn em"

Yea, just go ahead and waste 10 CD-Rs and your time by attempting to make illegal copies of illegal copies. <eyes roll>

---

A> "Has anyone seen, or know where I could find, the Shenmue II Pal covers and manual on the internet. I've seen the Jap covers but no Pal."
B> "Oh don't worry, when you buy it the covers will come with it."
C> "what an [bleep]. If you are ethical, then what the [bleep] are you doing in this forum?"
A> "...but that's why I downloaded the game, so I wonldn't have to buy it. Why else would I be posting on this forum? At least it's good to see that not every member of this forum is a [bleep]."
D> "[bleep] you [bleep]. Sega doesn't deserve [bleep]! As far as I'm concerned we all got [bleep]ed over with the dreamcast. "

It's DREAMCAST software, not Oracle! Buy the frickin' games already. Even Shenmue II imported costs about $45 shipped, less than you'll pay for a crappy title on X-Box. I received my copy in the mail last week. I bet all these kids have rich daddies, too.

--

A> "I unzipped the fix for head hunter cd2 into c:\HH2 and then made a c:\HH2data folder. I extracted all the files from session 2, track 2 from the cd2 cdi file into the \hh2data folder, and replaced the movies. I then burned Audio.raw from my HH2 dir onto the cd using cdrecod (b/c cdrwin wouldnt let me do multi session). And then I went back into the c:\hh2 directory and ran Binhack.exe and i put in 1st_read.bin (which i copied to HH2 from the HH2DATA dir), ip.bin and 11702 in the proper feilds. I then moved 1st_Read.bin back over to the c:\HH2DATA. I then went back to c:\hh2 and ran 11702.dat and it gave me a data.iso that was maybe about 1 kb big. But this file isnt big enough to contain any game files. And the readme tells me to use the hh2data.iso but i was never told how to make it. What am I doing wrong here?"

All that for a fix that doesn't work!? Head Hunter - $45 shipped from the UK. Ethical issues aside, is warez worth the effort/time?

--

A> "After beating the boss on Level 5 Rez stalls... the DC motor revs like mad, but to no avail. Looks like Hooligans need to release yet another repack for yet another game... surprised?"

Oh, that's great. You are in the middle of your ripped game and the damn thing crashes. GREAT. You get what you deserve. No probs with the legit software.
 

Swag1138

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2000
3,444
0
0


<<

<< You may not be guilty of murder, but your poop chute is still going to take a licking and keep on tickin when they put you in prison.


Paul
>>



Well, let's put it this way, instead of using murder, lets use something relatively minor - how about speeding.

You're standing on the side of a road. The speed limit on this road is 25mph. You watch a car drive by going 45mph. 10 minutes later, a cop gets out of an unmarked car on the other side of the road, walks over to you, hands you a ticket for 45 in a 25, and expects you to pay it.

According to your logic, you deserved that ticket for not reporting the guy. (we'll assume there was a payphone near where you were standing - you could have called 911 on the guy)
>>



NotFred....I feel sorry for you if this was a serious post that you truly believe.

Going back to the murder analogy, if you KNOW that somone committed a murder, and they are free, and you tell no one, then they find out you knew, then you are going to jail right with that person as an Accomplice.

If somone breaks into a bank, and you KNOW who it was, and you dont tell anyone, and the police find out you knew, then youll be going right along to jail with the theif as an Accomplice.

This is the law. It has happened on numerous occasions.

Dont try to disprove the law. It is what it is.

Though, I doubt that you will be sent up the river with a software pirate, just as 95 percent of software piracy is never caught, but the potential and precedent is set for you to be if you say nothing of it.

IF this has laready been addressed, then Im sorry, I read through the thread and missed it.
 

Swag1138

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2000
3,444
0
0
And to all the Piracy zealots...


I pirate because am an evil bastard, now leave me alone, k?
 

yoda291

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,079
0
0


<< ...my quote

PLease tell me why you NEED it, not want but NEED.
>>



Editor: "I need you to reverse this layout, realign it, and have a a printable file by x:00 tomorrow."



<< Ever try to dl an 8.5x11 photo quality scan? I know several people who make a living doing spreads and layouts that do every week.

If you have a job that either doesn't pay for the resources OR provide you enough to pay for them legally then you are a moron and should find a new job.
>>



you're missing the point. You ask people to abandon their internet connections, claiming it's not necessary to have things like an extra line or broadband, to pay for software when that very connection is vital to their income. You make these generalizations about other people when it seems you live in this fantasy world where everything is in karmic balance and butterflies accompany you to work daily. Also, try hunting for jobs in the graphics field. It's considerably harder if you don't have access to a stable internet connection. Try freelancing. Insanely difficult to keep many clients if you don't have an email account that you can check regularly or the ability to send progressions. You'll find more than a few clients specifically requesting high speed access on the designer's behalf.



<< ...my quote again

How bout attending the lecture and TAKING NOTES? You know with a pen and paper?
>>



kinda hard when the professor doesn't have tenure at one school, teaches at several different universities and decides to stream his lectures instead of having to repeat himself several times. Running chats for his office hours. But no, you're right...instead, maybe we should all be unable to choose those technologically advanced majors and live contentedly with the current state of technology. I'll have you know, I attend my classes regularly and I use a laptop to take my notes.



<< Heck, how about downloading a few mp3s

I would hardley classify this as a need!
>>



You're missing the point. Tying up the main phone line for something as relatively simple as downloading mp3s is a significant time investment.

NEED -

<< Necessity; obligation >>





<< I'm sure the people you live with will appreciate not having a line for a few hours or so. you're making generalizations about other people's internet usage which are disinformed.

Hey I have broadband but If I had to make a choice I would make the choice not use my inability to manage my money as an excuse for theivery!
>>



And why are you assuming people can't manage their money from? You have this idea in your head that everyone is financially secure and that they justify pirating with malicious intent. I know fellow college students whose only occupation is converting handwritten documents into typed documents. So if they use a pirated copy of OfficeXP, then by your logic, they can't seem to manage their money. They could make sacrifices here and there and pay for it. Yet these are people who, at times, live on popcorn and water for days. Ya think they have anything left to give up for their software? Heck, take a non-extreme example and use your average joe. He's got bills to pay for, prolly puts away a little bit of his check into savings. He works hard for his money. One day, he feels inspired to write a book, or start organizing his friend's phone numbers...whatever. One of his friends offers him a copy of Access or WordPerfect gratis. What do you expect him to do? Say, gee, that's a bad thing and I can't do it so I'll just stop paying my internet bill for a few years, maybe cut my thermostat down a few degrees, give up air conditioning a while, and stop going out for a bit so I can buy the software from staples a few months from now. Even the other extreme won't do that. Take one of the power rig users here at AT. SCSI up the wazoo, 40 billion terahertz chip, the whole nine yards. He's got this system, obviously he's got money, and he needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. Someone offers him a cdr with photoshop 6 on it. What's he gonna do? "Gee, I can't pirate the software, that's morally reprehensible, my conscience would just kill me. "

It's easy to stand up on a pedestal and berate other people's sense of morals. Facing bills and expenses and actually appreciating the value of the dollar(or yen, or won, or ruble, etc) and how much work went into making that money. You think that some abstract programmer in silicon valley is gonna come to mind when contemplating a purchasing decision? Especially armed with the knowledge that they will receive maybe half a percent at the most for the software they create? Do you go shopping and say, gee, this price is low. That person who knitted this sweater deserves more..lemme go see where I can pay more for it. I didn't think so.

I personally have no problem with people pirating software. I don't do it because I am in a fortunate position, and I even find it funny when my friends gasp in mock amazement as I pull out originals of software from jewel cases and whatnot. I also have no problem with people like you who don't pirate software because of the moral implications. If that's your deal, that's alright by me. I'm not gonna suddenly burn a million copies of different apps and mail them to you and force you to use them. What I do have a problem with is you cramming judgement down the throats of those who don't think like you do. Who don't have the same values as you do, and have a different opinion of what the software market is like. For all you know, those developers could be living very soft lifestyles raking in the money, or at least living rather comfortably. They could very well be getting what they deserve. Maybe you don't see it that way and other people do. No one knows for a fact what every programmer or developer is doing and all we have is conjecture. If you have trouble handling this concept, maybe you should stay confined inside those circles of people who always agree with you and not go where someone might have a different opinion than you do like, I don't know, a public forum?
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< PLease tell me why you NEED it, not want but NEED [broadband] >>



Because it takes too damn long to download MP3s, warez and porn without it.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
The bottom line: you can justify just about anything but the best among us justify paying for software. I must admit there are times when I could do better.
 

Chubs

Member
Apr 4, 2001
144
0
0


<< And to all the Piracy zealots...


I pirate because am an evil bastard, now leave me alone, k?
>>



Finally, an honest pirate. Face it people, if you're not paying for the software you're stealing it. No, ifs, ands or buts. You can rationalize yourself out of feeling guilty about almost anything you do that's wrong. Your rationalization doesn't make you right, it just makes you feel better about it.

P.S. You're not an evil bastard, just a petty thief like the rest of us pirates.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
I'd like to know where encoding television syndicated shows fits into this. Encoding to keep for oneself (just like recording on VHS) then sharing with others (mpegs) who happened to have missed that episode. Isn't this like lending your friend your VHS tape and letting him keep it?

I believe this is illegal, but is this piracy? No money is asked from the airing of the show (by the creators/producers) in the first place.

Thoughts ?
 

Yoda291: Right on.

I never thought about the clothing industry. I see no one crying for them.



<< If you have a job that either doesn't pay for the resources OR provide you enough to pay for them legally then you are a moron and should find a new job. >>


Riight. Easy as one, two, three, right?

and heres the rest


<< If MS thought they could eradicate piracy the price would plummet as it sits when I Pay for my software I am also paybing for yours because you desided you couldn't be burdened with buying you though it would be better to steal. >>


Thank you, a Merry Christmas to you too! But that may be true. But I think much of the price drop would due to keep customers from going to *nix solutions.



<< I don't know why people have to spill so much ink claiming that they are in the right by downloading warez. A judge and jury will proclaim you guilty and you know this. >>


Your right. I cannot argue that fact. I don't think its my right to download software though.



<< The last time I checked, the big 4 Adobe titles - Photoshop, PageMaker, Illustrator and Acrobat - were available in one educational package for just under $500. That's quite a bit less than retail. >>




<< Microsoft has very generous educational discounts. I recall getting Visual Studio 6 Professional Edition for about $125, Office 2000 Professional (full) for about $135. These prices will not cause hardship. >>


And still a quite a bit more then I can afford for the software. Combine it all, its quite a pretty penny.



<< You are full of it. If that's the way you truly feel, then life will present you with some tough breaks. Try to hold down a job or raise children if you lack a moral conscience.You don't have to be a goodie-goodie, you don't have to be a little angel. But to be human and expect to be treated with compassion you need to take responsibility for your actions. >>


Ive been working and paying my bills fine for years. Who are you to judge me? I'm not a little angel, but your acting that part well and looking down on me from upon that ivory tower. I do take responsibility for my actions and I still don't see how you turn this into a moral rant on me.

tm37: Your economics ninja art is refined. *bow* But plug in some real numbers for me. Theories are great until they hit the real world. ie. communism. And I am not discounting your post one bit.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0
Yoda there is no justification for stealing it is just easier and cheaper than making a moral choice.



<< you're missing the point. You ask people to abandon their internet connections, claiming it's not necessary to have things like an extra line or broadband, to pay for software when that very connection is vital to their income. You make these generalizations about other people when it seems you live in this fantasy world where everything is in karmic balance and butterflies accompany you to work daily. Also, try hunting for jobs in the graphics field. It's considerably harder if you don't have access to a stable internet connection. Try freelancing. Insanely difficult to keep many clients if you don't have an email account that you can check regularly or the ability to send progressions. You'll find more than a few clients specifically requesting high speed access on the designer's behalf. >>



Like I said before if the job does not provide or pay you enough for you to legally obtain the tools required than you are a moron for taking that job. If you can't earn enough as a freelancer you made a poor career choice no crying about it.



<< kinda hard when the professor doesn't have tenure at one school, teaches at several different universities and decides to stream his lectures instead of having to repeat himself several times. Running chats for his office hours. But no, you're right...instead, maybe we should all be unable to choose those technologically advanced majors and live contentedly with the current state of technology. I'll have you know, I attend my classes regularly and I use a laptop to take my notes. >>



Again POOR judgement on your part does not allow you to BREAK THE LAW! Yes perhaps you can't take a technoligically based major, sorry again but not everyone is entitled to get a EE or Graphics arts degree. I did not attend college and while I may never be a millionare I did get an education, joined the navy, I HAVE BEEN hungry wondering where my next meal would come from. I once ate 2 meals over the course of a week due to lack of money. Perhaps I should have gotten into dealing drugs another so called vicimless crime would that have been approprate? Of course not. WRONG IS WRONG I knew it then and I know it today.



<< You're missing the point. Tying up the main phone line for something as relatively simple as downloading mp3s is a significant time investment >>



Accually you totally missed the point here, yes using dial up to download MP3's is a major bummer. my point was that YOU DO NOT NEED TO DOWNLOAD MP3's. Using this to say you NEED broadband is as absurd as selling drugs because you NEED a Lexus!



<< And why are you assuming people can't manage their money from? You have this idea in your head that everyone is financially secure and that they justify pirating with malicious intent. I know fellow college students whose only occupation is converting handwritten documents into typed documents. So if they use a pirated copy of OfficeXP, then by your logic, they can't seem to manage their money. >>



Yes They can't. How much does office Basic cost at the college bookstore? Not much and why do they need Office XP? You can allways find a used copy of 97 or 2000 for a fraction of what XP costs.



<< They could make sacrifices here and there and pay for it. Yet these are people who, at times, live on popcorn and water for days. Ya think they have anything left to give up for their software? >>



Yes they could relize that they can't afford school, and go get a job or they could cut back on classes and get a JOB. Yes it can be tough to juggle all those thing BUT again using YOUR LOGIC (if you really want to call it that) it's ok to steal if it helps them get where they want.



<< Heck, take a non-extreme example and use your average joe. He's got bills to pay for, prolly puts away a little bit of his check into savings. He works hard for his money. One day, he feels inspired to write a book, or start organizing his friend's phone numbers...whatever. One of his friends offers him a copy of Access or WordPerfect gratis. What do you expect him to do? Say, gee, that's a bad thing and I can't do it so I'll just stop paying my internet bill for a few years, maybe cut my thermostat down a few degrees, give up air conditioning a while, and stop going out for a bit so I can buy the software from staples a few months from now. Even the other extreme won't do that. Take one of the power rig users here at AT. SCSI up the wazoo, 40 billion terahertz chip, the whole nine yards. He's got this system, obviously he's got money, and he needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. Someone offers him a cdr with photoshop 6 on it. What's he gonna do? "Gee, I can't pirate the software, that's morally reprehensible, my conscience would just kill me. " >>



Yes they should, Hey I really wanted a NEW truck when I bought my 97 earlier this year, BUT it was about $100 a month difference, we looked at the buget and well I could have cut off the cable, Not gotten my direct TV, killed the broadband and ate mac and cheese every night. Or I could have perhaps taken a parttime job that would have not allowed me to spend time with my wife and son. I decided that I really didn't need a new truck, it's called a CHOICE we all have to make them some of them tough. And as far someone who "needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. " Paint? Photoshop lite? paper and Pencil? again you replace want with need in an attempt to jusitfy your arguement.



<< It's easy to stand up on a pedestal and berate other people's sense of morals. Facing bills and expenses and actually appreciating the value of the dollar(or yen, or won, or ruble, etc) and how much work went into making that money. You think that some abstract programmer in silicon valley is gonna come to mind when contemplating a purchasing decision? Especially armed with the knowledge that they will receive maybe half a percent at the most for the software they create? >>



At my job I get paid for the work I do no more no less. If there isn't any work I DON'T get paid. I support my wife and child, pay a morgage and make choices every day on how to spend my little bit of money that I have left after paying for food, diapers, phone, power, insurance, and the like. Somehow I make it work and am able to afford a few nice thing (like my DSL) or occasionally a new computer. My Wife works a few hours a week at the local Walmart to pay for her toys and we GET buy. I would like to upgrade to XP and was offered a COrp Edition DIsk. I said "No thanks, I'll wait until I can AFFORD it."



<< Do you go shopping and say, gee, this price is low. That person who knitted this sweater deserves more..lemme go see where I can pay more for it. I didn't think so. >>



No I don't I typically pay what the retailer is asking for it. If I think it is a good deal and I want it they get my money. And it costs to much I pass. I don't say Oh that way to much I'm just gonna take it. It's call cost benifit analysis you should look it up.



<< For all you know, those developers could be living very soft lifestyles raking in the money, or at least living rather comfortably >>


Which really doesn't matter, I for one think people should get paid when somone uses a service that I provide when I make that the reason I provide the service. Next time you call out a repairman and he comes in and repairs whatever is broke, without using parts, don't pay him, he more than likely already has enough. The rule MUST BE ABSOLUTE. In a capitalist economy you should get what you pay for however when I buy software I also have to pay for those who choose not to pay! Se the example on non tangible item economics above!


What you fail to grasp is my main point
I will now put it in bold so that you can see it clearly.



Unless you have permission from the Author, like you pay him, be it a company or individual, you have no right to use the software regardless of you current econmic state.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0


<< tm37: Your economics ninja art is refined. *bow* But plug in some real numbers for me. Theories are great until they hit the real world. ie. communism. And I am not discounting your post one bit. >>



If Ihad the actual numbers I would plug them in But I think I made my point.

When dealing with something where the development cost is the majority of the expense increased demand will lower prices due to the cost per unit decreasing.

This is not theory but proven fact everysoftware company would drop prices in a heartbeat if that would stop piracy, But they know it won't. Until it costs less than a CDR you will continue to steal.
 



<< Unless you have permission from the Author, like you pay him, be it a company or individual, you have no right to use the software regardless of you current econmic state. >>


Wow, profound. Did it really take you that much bs just to say the known facts?



<< This is not theory but proven fact everysoftware company would drop prices in a heartbeat if that would stop piracy, But they know it won't. Until it costs less than a CDR you will continue to steal. >>


True, never paid for it before, don't have much intention on doing that in the future. The only scenario where its needed is in a business environment.



<< When dealing with something where the development cost is the majority of the expense increased demand will lower prices due to the cost per unit decreasing. >>


Demand has been there and rising for the past 10 years solid. I don't see software prices falling. Now what?

And I feel sorry for your pitiful life story, now continue to tip-toe through life, until you arrive safely at death.

rh71: Yes, punishable by up to a $100,000 fine etc, But everyone has overlooked that for years. heh.


I'm breaking the law. This is all you need to know.



<< I pirate because am an evil bastard, now leave me alone, k? >>


 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< Yoda there is no justification for stealing it is just easier and cheaper than making a moral choice. >>



So if your family was starving, you wouldn't steal bread? If you or your loved ones were attacked by a man with a knife, you wouldn't kill him? The ends DO justify the means.

Not in this case though. We are stealing. This is true. We just don't care enough to stop though.



<< Again POOR judgement on your part does not allow you to BREAK THE LAW! Yes perhaps you can't take a technoligically based major, sorry again but not everyone is entitled to get a EE or Graphics arts degree. I did not attend college and while I may never be a millionare I did get an education, joined the navy, I HAVE BEEN hungry wondering where my next meal would come from. I once ate 2 meals over the course of a week due to lack of money. Perhaps I should have gotten into dealing drugs another so called vicimless crime would that have been approprate? Of course not. WRONG IS WRONG I knew it then and I know it today. >>



...I'd deal drugs in that situation. My survival is more important that some laws made by a faceless government.



<< Accually you totally missed the point here, yes using dial up to download MP3's is a major bummer. my point was that YOU DO NOT NEED TO DOWNLOAD MP3's. Using this to say you NEED broadband is as absurd as selling drugs because you NEED a Lexus! >>



I told you before! Geez! It takes too damn long to download MP3s, warez and pr0n without broadband!

On a more serious note...no one needs anything except food and shelter.

<< The NEED for something is irrelevant. >>

Please stop saying we don't need to download Mp3s, etc. That's really starting to piss me off. No one needs anything but bread, water and a cardboard box to sleep in. That is what's needed for survival. It's not comfortable but that's what's essential.

The economy is not driven by need. It's driven by demand. We WANT broadband. We WANT MP3s, etc.



<< Yes They can't. How much does office Basic cost at the college bookstore? Not much and why do they need Office XP? You can allways find a used copy of 97 or 2000 for a fraction of what XP costs. >>



It's there. It's that simple. We get it because it's there and we don't have to pay $500 for it.



<< Yes they could relize that they can't afford school, and go get a job or they could cut back on classes and get a JOB. Yes it can be tough to juggle all those thing BUT again using YOUR LOGIC (if you really want to call it that) it's ok to steal if it helps them get where they want. >>



I would NEVER cut back on classes to get a job so I could legally pay for software. My education is more important than a company getting a, in the big picture, miniscule amount of money from a poor college student.

I'm not in this situation though. I can afford to go to university but if I was, there is damn well no way I'd risk my getting a degree so that I can say I paid for my Windows XP. It's not like I lose any sleep...other than over exams.



<< Yes they should, Hey I really wanted a NEW truck when I bought my 97 earlier this year, BUT it was about $100 a month difference, we looked at the buget and well I could have cut off the cable, Not gotten my direct TV, killed the broadband and ate mac and cheese every night. Or I could have perhaps taken a parttime job that would have not allowed me to spend time with my wife and son. I decided that I really didn't need a new truck, it's called a CHOICE we all have to make them some of them tough. And as far someone who "needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. " Paint? Photoshop lite? paper and Pencil? again you replace want with need in an attempt to jusitfy your arguement. >>



Again, I wouldn't do any of that. I want to save for a new car. A RSX. The way I see it is...I save $300 toward my car if I get a free copy of Windows XP or I have to find another $300 toward the car if I actually pay for XP Pro.

Oh...and looky here...I don't actually NEED either of those. I WANT them. Hmmmm...



<< No I don't I typically pay what the retailer is asking for it. If I think it is a good deal and I want it they get my money. And it costs to much I pass. I don't say Oh that way to much I'm just gonna take it. It's call cost benifit analysis you should look it up. >>



Then you'll know that 0 cost/max benefit is best.



<< What you fail to grasp is my main point
I will now put it in bold so that you can see it clearly.

Unless you have permission from the Author, like you pay him, be it a company or individual, you have no right to use the software regardless of you current econmic state.
>>



And you fail to grasp our point.
I will now put it in bold so that you can see it clearly.

We don't care.
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< True, never paid for it before, don't have much intention on doing that in the future. The only scenario where its needed is in a business environment. >>



I know. In a business enviroment, you can get into a huge pile of crap for using pirated software. However, at home...I doubt it. There are millions of people around there world doing this.



<< Demand has been there and rising for the past 10 years solid. I don't see software prices falling. Now what? >>



Agreed. There's a reason why CD-RWs are cheap.



<< rh71: Yes, punishable by up to a $100,000 fine etc, But everyone has overlooked that for years. heh. >>



Exactly. You'd get a slap on the wrist.

<---- also an evil bastard....but an evil bastard running XP for free!
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< When dealing with something where the development cost is the majority of the expense increased demand will lower prices due to the cost per unit decreasing.

This is not theory but proven fact everysoftware company would drop prices in a heartbeat if that would stop piracy, But they know it won't. Until it costs less than a CDR you will continue to steal.
>>



Unlikely. What will happen is the cost per unit remains the same and the developer gets another Ferrari.

There's a reason why CD-RW drives are popular y'know. If you think it's backing up your Word documents, then you're kidding yourself.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0


<< Demand has been there and rising for the past 10 years solid. I don't see software prices falling. Now what? >>



As have development costs and piracy rates!



<< And I feel sorry for your pitiful life story, now continue to tip-toe through life, until you arrive safely at death. >>



Gee Thanks But My point is that I can look at what I have and know I earned it my parents didn't give me anything. I had to WORK if I wanted something and I make choices on how to spend my money. I don't look at theivery as a viable option.

You however feel like aslong as it make you happy then that's all that matters,

IF EVERYONE USED PIRATED SOFTWARE THEN COMPANIES WOULD GO BANKRUPT.

So who all is "allowed" to steal? Just you? or everyone? Because if everyone is then read the statement above.

 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
4,375
0
0


<< IF EVERYONE USED PIRATED SOFTWARE THEN COMPANIES WOULD GO BANKRUPT.

So who all is "allowed" to steal? Just you? or everyone? Because if everyone is then read the statement above.
>>



I wish people would read my posts. They're not that hard to see.
 

McPhreak

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2000
3,808
1
0


<< Going back to the murder analogy, if you KNOW that somone committed a murder, and they are free, and you tell no one, then they find out you knew, then you are going to jail right with that person as an Accomplice.

If somone breaks into a bank, and you KNOW who it was, and you dont tell anyone, and the police find out you knew, then youll be going right along to jail with the theif as an Accomplice.
>>



Actually, this is not always the case. I don't think there are any laws which state that you need to come forward with any information about a crime (excluding social workers, teachers, etc.). Anybody who went to Berkeley within the past few years can tell you all about a man by the name of David Cash...
 

yoda291

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,079
0
0


<< Yoda there is no justification for stealing it is just easier and cheaper than making a moral choice.

My problem isn't that stealing is justified. It's that you can't quite seem to find a way to comprehend that not everyone has your moral values and your sense of obligation. Instead, you feel justified to belittle people because of it.



<< Like I said before if the job does not provide or pay you enough for you to legally obtain the tools required than you are a moron for taking that job. If you can't earn enough as a freelancer you made a poor career choice no crying about it. >>



Yeah, in an ideal world where businesses all have limitless funds and no spending inhibitions, everyone would be supplied with all the tools they need in any manner they wish. But the truth of it, you won't see anyone say "gee boss, I can't take the job cuz I've used/I have pirated software to help me along." Heck, do you think there aren't upper management departments that don't consider giving out pirated copies of the newest and greatest software to their employees to avoid paying licensing fees?



<< Again POOR judgement on your part does not allow you to BREAK THE LAW! Yes perhaps you can't take a technoligically based major, sorry again but not everyone is entitled to get a EE or Graphics arts degree. I did not attend college and while I may never be a millionare I did get an education, joined the navy, I HAVE BEEN hungry wondering where my next meal would come from. I once ate 2 meals over the course of a week due to lack of money. Perhaps I should have gotten into dealing drugs another so called vicimless crime would that have been approprate? Of course not. WRONG IS WRONG I knew it then and I know it today. >>



No one is entitled to their degree or education. There isn't some guy who sits on the street corner and hands you your bachelor's or master's. An education or degree isn't an inheritance you get by default. Every college student works for their degree. I attend college and pay for college on my own working several jobs. Am I entitled to my degree? You better believe I am, because I worked hard at it relentlessly in high school. I pay for it even now with my health and welfare. But regardless of what I choose as my major, it isn't decided by what I can afford or what my morals entitle me to. I didn't sit with my advisor and ask "what majors can I afford?" or "What major will my morals let me take?". As a result of my actions, I've become very proud of my accomplishments, as meager as they are, of my major, and all the learning it that came with it, and of the experiences I took away from making the choices I did. The last word that comes to mind when I consider my field is POOR. I know what is wrong and what is right...but I've also known for quite some time that THE WORLD IS NOT FAIR. The good guy doesn't always win. Morality doesn't always win against immorality, people are not always helpful and nice, and things are not handed to you...you have to bite and kick and scratch and spit sometimes to get somewhere.



<< Accually you totally missed the point here, yes using dial up to download MP3's is a major bummer. my point was that YOU DO NOT NEED TO DOWNLOAD MP3's. Using this to say you NEED broadband is as absurd as selling drugs because you NEED a Lexus! >>



You're missing the point again. If something simple like downloading mp3s is a large time investment, then a professional or business oriented usage of the internet is unfeasible and something else is required...like another line to free up the main, or broadband to cut the amount of time needed to perform tasks. Going by your logic, it's like saying "I'm gonna dig out this building's foundation with my fingers instead of using a shovel because I can dig small holes with my fingers".



<< Yes They can't. How much does office Basic cost at the college bookstore? Not much and why do they need Office XP? You can allways find a used copy of 97 or 2000 for a fraction of what XP costs. >>



because officeXP is easy to find on warez channels because it's the newest and shinest thing out there now.



<< Yes they could relize that they can't afford school, and go get a job or they could cut back on classes and get a JOB. Yes it can be tough to juggle all those thing BUT again using YOUR LOGIC (if you really want to call it that) it's ok to steal if it helps them get where they want. >>



Do you always give up so easily? they could abandon the position they've worked to get to(It's too hard, I can't do it, let's give up), or they can find another way. They have chosen the latter, if this is something you cannot, in good conscience, condone, fine. It still doesn't mean you can look down on these people for making a situation a litle more tenable.



<< Yes they should, Hey I really wanted a NEW truck when I bought my 97 earlier this year, BUT it was about $100 a month difference, we looked at the buget and well I could have cut off the cable, Not gotten my direct TV, killed the broadband and ate mac and cheese every night. Or I could have perhaps taken a parttime job that would have not allowed me to spend time with my wife and son. I decided that I really didn't need a new truck, it's called a CHOICE we all have to make them some of them tough. And as far someone who "needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. " Paint? Photoshop lite? paper and Pencil? again you replace want with need in an attempt to jusitfy your arguement. >>



fine, replace "needs" witih "wants". It still doesn't change the fact that most people won't think twice about taking that cdr.



<< At my job I get paid for the work I do no more no less. If there isn't any work I DON'T get paid. I support my wife and child, pay a morgage and make choices every day on how to spend my little bit of money that I have left after paying for food, diapers, phone, power, insurance, and the like. Somehow I make it work and am able to afford a few nice thing (like my DSL) or occasionally a new computer. My Wife works a few hours a week at the local Walmart to pay for her toys and we GET buy. I would like to upgrade to XP and was offered a COrp Edition DIsk. I said "No thanks, I'll wait until I can AFFORD it." >>



My point exactly. You take what extra money you mustered and go about analyzing your options on what YOU can buy. When you buy a toy at walmart, are you considering how much work went into making it or the conditions of the person who designed it? No. You look at the price tag, and compare how much you'd be willing to pay for it and the tag. If that tag price is equal to or less than what you're willing to take out of the money you have left, you'll prolly buy it or consider buying it later. You made a choice that you believed was right. But what you believe to be right, doesn't necessarily make it so.



<< No I don't I typically pay what the retailer is asking for it. If I think it is a good deal and I want it they get my money. And it costs to much I pass. I don't say Oh that way to much I'm just gonna take it. It's call cost benifit analysis you should look it up. >>



Mayhaps you should re-read my post before you comment. Most people follow this pattern of shopping. They ask themselves, is this a good deal? If it is, then it can be bought. If the cost is too high, then it gets passed. I'm asking, do you do the opposite? Do you ever stop yourself and say, "Golly, this was just too good I deal. The person deserves more. Let's go back and give the cashier more money.




<< What you fail to grasp is my main point
I will now put it in bold so that you can see it clearly.



Unless you have permission from the Author, like you pay him, be it a company or individual, you have no right to use the software regardless of you current econmic state.
>>



And it appears you fail to grasp mine. I won't be so disrespectful as to make it stand out. I'll assume you can read it just fine as it is.

Regardless of your thoughts on the subject of piracy, you don't have the right to belittle those who choose not to think as you do. Regardless of the legality of the issue, at no point are you ENTITLED to snob your nose up at people who don't share your moral values. You said it yourself life is about choice and sacrifice, yet you don't seem to respect this at all. Life is about choice and sacrifice. Piraters have made the choice to obtain software illegally and have sacrificed the security that comes in knowing that there is no risk involved in owning it. If things were to go your way, however, you would deny them this choice. U can't even live by your own words yet you expect others to. U voice your disgust at piracy, yet you are the one condemning anyone. No one is cramming warez down your throat. No one is calling you a fool for paying for your software when another choice exists. No one depicting you as worthless and small. We all make our own choices in life. I choose to use my job as a means of getting software, knowing full well there are plenty of places legal and illegal I can get the software from, and I can live with it. Others pirate, knowing full well that their actions are not condoned and that there are other ways to get the software, and they live with it. You have chosen to purchase your software knowing full well you could pirate it and that there are many piraters there in the market, but seem to have this need to bash on people who make other choices.
 

RoninRXN

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,830
0
0


<< And it appears you fail to grasp mine. I won't be so disrespectful as to make it stand out. I'll assume you can read it just fine as it is.

Regardless of your thoughts on the subject of piracy, you don't have the right to belittle those who choose not to think as you do. Regardless of the legality of the issue, at no point are you ENTITLED to snob your nose up at people who don't share your moral values. You said it yourself life is about choice and sacrifice, yet you don't seem to respect this at all. Life is about choice and sacrifice. Piraters have made the choice to obtain software illegally and have sacrificed the security that comes in knowing that there is no risk involved in owning it. If things were to go your way, however, you would deny them this choice. U can't even live by your own words yet you expect others to. U voice your disgust at piracy, yet you are the one condemning anyone. No one is cramming warez down your throat. No one is calling you a fool for paying for your software when another choice exists. No one depicting you as worthless and small. We all make our own choices in life. I choose to use my job as a means of getting software, knowing full well there are plenty of places legal and illegal I can get the software from, and I can live with it. Others pirate, knowing full well that their actions are not condoned and that there are other ways to get the software, and they live with it. You have chosen to purchase your software knowing full well you could pirate it and that there are many piraters there in the market, but seem to have this need to bash on people who make other choices.
>>



Damn straight.
 

Hamburgerpimp

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2000
7,464
1
76
This is not theory but proven fact everysoftware company would drop prices in a heartbeat if that would stop piracy

Bullsh1t. There is no possible way to measure piracy, only that it happens. You see the light?
 

Jerboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2001
5,190
0
0


<< I copy everything.. if I like it alot/use it alot, I BUY IT.. it's the whole theory behind MP3's (the theory people want to believe you believe in)

pirating for me, is a test phase.
>>




How about these solutions?

Very sophisticated time tracking that isn't fooled by registry hack or back-dating and if it is something you use alot it can be

1. time limited(15 or 30days)

if you don't use it much:

2. session limited(30 to 50 uses). After your sessions have expired , user can get a full verison or if its not going to be used much, they should have an option of buying more sessions(sorta like pre-paid cellphone). The serial # can be made with very complex encryption but derived from your NAME, address etc so the manufacture can trace the source if piracy takes place.


With the above solutions, you no longer have an excuse to pirate for "trying it out".

 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
TM37,

I appreciate a couple points you've expressed and think they're worth reposting


<< Yes they should, Hey I really wanted a NEW truck when I bought my 97 earlier this year, BUT it was about $100 a month difference, we looked at the buget and well I could have cut off the cable, Not gotten my direct TV, killed the broadband and ate mac and cheese every night. Or I could have perhaps taken a parttime job that would have not allowed me to spend time with my wife and son. I decided that I really didn't need a new truck, it's called a CHOICE we all have to make them some of them tough. And as far someone who "needs a copy of Photoshop to design some slick new logo to dremel into the side of his case. " Paint? Photoshop lite? paper and Pencil? again you replace want with need in an attempt to jusitfy your arguement. >>



<< At my job I get paid for the work I do no more no less. If there isn't any work I DON'T get paid. I support my wife and child, pay a morgage and make choices every day on how to spend my little bit of money that I have left after paying for food, diapers, phone, power, insurance, and the like. Somehow I make it work and am able to afford a few nice thing (like my DSL) or occasionally a new computer. My Wife works a few hours a week at the local Walmart to pay for her toys and we GET buy. I would like to upgrade to XP and was offered a COrp Edition DIsk. I said "No thanks, I'll wait until I can AFFORD it." >>



 
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