Software Pirating. . .your take

[LordMaul]

<< So, I see a nice new Ferrari that I know I can't afford. But since it's really overpriced, it'll be alright for me to just take it.........according to many here, that'd be ok, too. >>



I'm not going to state my personal opinion on this matter. HOWEVER, you need a new comparison. Ever since these threads started appearing on AT, the "Ferrari" comparison has been used, and proven quite different. Here is how it goes:

You say it's OK to steal a Ferrari if you find one and can't afford it, because that's what other people here on the board seem to think, right? Well, the counter point to that is that a Ferrari would be stealing something from a person, that if they wanted it still, they would have to buy a new one for 200,000 or so. IE, it would cost them cold, hard cash and would be a direct damage to their bank account. But software or music or even movies do not work like this. You borrow it, copy it, and give it back. The only money spent was when you bought a disk, and that wasn't a cost to the owner of the movie/music/software. So it doesn't COST them anything.

When you bust into someone's house, steal a stack of games, and leave, then you stole and actually cost them money or ownership of some specific item/s. But if you walk into your friends house, borrow a stack of games from him, copy them, and give them back, or download them from his computer, then it didn't cost him, the maker, or producer a red cent.

So, tlak amongst yourselves as you wish.

 

[CraigRT]

<< Then, just like all pirates, you are a CRIMINAL. >>



Sad for you!

I already stated I buy the software.. what does it matter then if i have a copy? - it can then be labeled as a backup... did you not read my entire 4 sentence post?



<< And if by chance you do happen to someday create/invent/design something of value, my sincerest hope is that it gets pirated en masse, so that YOU too will be denied your rightful copyright protection. >>



Looks like someone has strong opinions.. now you're just being an ass.

I am good with pirating.. I always buy the good software. if i don't buy it, well I don't even use the pirate copy.. so I dunno WTF you are talking about..

 

[FuZoR]

hmm.. software pirating... Everything on my computer is err... illegal

Last OS i bought was windows 95 upgrade, from then, everything i have in my computer is pretty much pirated stuff. ie. win2k, winxp, photoshop, office xp, etc etc. including all my games *cough alien vs pred 2, rtcw etc.
I bought a few games. Half-Life and Quake III. When they were at $50 each.

ahh well. whatever. I feel no guilt.

 

[Lankin]

The only game developers that have ever made enough money for luxury items are, well ones that got lucky(Smedly and that other guy at Verent), or those that have been around, since the mid 80s or before(Mier, Garriot, Wright, etc etc). Most game developers make $45-60,000 per year. Some pull in low six figures, but they have many many years under their belts(8+).

The only way for a game developer to make any kinda of money is to start their own dev studios, churn out working code, show off a demo(not a tech demo), come up with a piss poor development schedule and pray to god they get a little money thrown their way. If you ever get to market, and sell over 500,000 copies, you might(key word might) bring in more money next time around, sell under 100,000 good luck every making enough to bring afford such luxury items mentioned. The other way is, to start your own studio, and when in contract talks, get a rather tidy royalty % inked onto the contract..

Most cant do it. Most games need to sell over 200,000 copies to break even, bigger named games need to sell over 400-500,000(unless you pay your employees well under the industry avg *cough*3D Realms*cough*).. Oh one final note, most game developers have a revolving door of a career, if they don't burn out within a couple years, most get laid off from companies right after, said company ships the game said developer made out the door.

 

[RoninRXN]

<tries to discretly push his huge collection of pirated software under the bed...>

I, for one, am well aware that piracy is a criminal act and probably wrong...but that damn well isn't going to stop me or the millions of other people around the world. However, I will buy software on occasion for two reasons.

1.) It's cheap (good deal)
2.) I can't wait for someone to rip it.

Of course, most of the time when I buy something and then discover that I don't like it...it goes to the FS/FT forum. I'd have to say about 90% of software is not worth the money they ask for.

I cannot afford a real copy of Photoshop nor will I buy a real copy of Windows XP. The price on these things is just too high for a university student like me.

MP3s are a different matter. I don't believe this is wrong at all to share music. Hell, there's something called "radio" which has been around for ages and no one complains about that. The main reason for MP3s is that on most albums, there are 2 good songs and 15 crapalicious ones. I'm not going to pay $15 for that fraction of a CD.

I remember Kid Rock talking about this on Muchmusic...about his take on Napster.

Kid Rock: "Meh...I don't care. I'm rich."

 

[mithrandir2001]

There are various shades of piracy and some are more immoral than others. Software piracy is bad because the "shelflife" of these products is fairly short and the developers need to quickly recover the investments they made. If you pirate MS Office, there's little chance you'll ever buy it. OTOH, I continue to maintain that music "piracy" via MP3 is much less deplorable of an offense. If software piracy is murder, MP3 is speeding. Music has a MUCH longer shelflife. If you have a pirated copy now, that doesn't mean in 10 years you might own a legal CD. Music is so ubiquitous - radio, television, office intercom, etc. - that distribution and possession of "pirated" MP3s appears as another channel, another outlet. Just as well, the ability to acquire MP3s is so easy and so free from any impression of criminality that you don't even think twice. I've downloaded countless MP3s since Napster emerged that my brain has been trained to accept the activity as purely legitimate. And I'm not alone. The music-listening population cannot be weened off MP3s now.

 

[Lankin]

<< I cannot afford a real copy of Photoshop nor will I buy a real copy of Windows XP. The price on these things is just too high for a university student like me. >>



Theres a thing called student pricing. I recall getting a couple $1000+ programs for $200-300. Office XP Pro goes for $200 if you're are student, Photoshop goes for $300(half off). Its more like you don't want to afford it..

 

[mmesker]

<< But programs like Photoshop, where the cost is prohibitive or ludicrious, I really don't feel too bad about. Even most freelance graphic designers don't have a legal copy of photoshop because it's so expensive. >>



I completely agree. I'm a design student, and I'm too broke to afford any of the software I need to do my homework from my computer at home. Paying over $1000 for Photoshop, Illustrator, QuarkXPress, and a few others is ridiculous.

My instructor talked about this the other day, and had a good point. If you're using the software to make money, you should pay for it.

*shrugs*

 

[RoninRXN]

<<

<< I cannot afford a real copy of Photoshop nor will I buy a real copy of Windows XP. The price on these things is just too high for a university student like me. >>



Theres a thing called student pricing. I recall getting a couple $1000+ programs for $200-300. Office XP Pro goes for $200 if you're are student, Photoshop goes for $300(half off). Its more like you don't want to afford it.. >>



...you think I have $500 to spend on Photoshop and XP? I can tell you about an even bigger discount called "Free".

Buying Windows is like buying a car insurance. You gotta buy a new one every year or so. If I actually used Photoshop for more than a couple assignments and maybe a little graphic fun for websites, I may consider purchasing a real copy but for the time being, it's not an issue to me...especially when I'm trying to save up for a new car.

 

[fatbaby]

<<

<< I cannot afford a real copy of Photoshop nor will I buy a real copy of Windows XP. The price on these things is just too high for a university student like me. >>



Theres a thing called student pricing. I recall getting a couple $1000+ programs for $200-300. Office XP Pro goes for $200 if you're are student, Photoshop goes for $300(half off). Its more like you don't want to afford it.. >>



$10,000 a year and no scholarship + student loan = frugal student

Yes pirating is wrong, but why do you care? People are starving in ethiopia and afganistan and you arent making a "starvation...your take" post. Starving is wrong too, but why should you care? cuz humans come over "warez"

~fat

 

[CraigRT]

<< Theres a thing called student pricing. I recall getting a couple $1000+ programs for $200-300. Office XP Pro goes for $200 if you're are student, Photoshop goes for $300(half off). Its more like you don't want to afford it.. >>



That just goes to show you how little they need their money.. if they can just drop $700 off the price of a piece of software if you prove you are a student.. that, right there would give alot of people motivation to pirate the damn software... it's a load of crap! the software most of the time is NOT worth what you pay for and that proves it.. instead of paying a grand for a piece of software, you pull out your student card, and get it for 3 bills? pfft.. i smell a rip off!

 

<< Then, just like all pirates, you are a CRIMINAL. >>



Like all speeders and tax cheaters you are a CRIMINAL.

 

[Bleep]

Pretty interesting discussion. My problem is the price of operating systems, I have 5 machines which I use and no one else does. 4 of these do nothing but SETI, if I purchase any os I have only purchased a licience to put it on one machine. If I insert the CD into one of my other machines and load the os on those machines this may or may not be piracy, if I transmit the OS to the other machines through my LAN onto another HD is that piracy?? If I buy a licience to install a program I should never be restricted to how many machines i put that OS on as long as I am the only one using it. So I guess I am a OS Pirate.
I will go to pirates annonomous and fess up.
Bleep

 

[mr_cheesy]

vvn

 

[yoda291]

<<

<< I cannot afford a real copy of Photoshop nor will I buy a real copy of Windows XP. The price on these things is just too high for a university student like me. >>



Theres a thing called student pricing. I recall getting a couple $1000+ programs for $200-300. Office XP Pro goes for $200 if you're are student, Photoshop goes for $300(half off). Its more like you don't want to afford it.. >>



Get Photoshop elements student version for 70 bux. Somehow, I doubt you use all the nifty little advanced tools tucked away in obscure corners of PS6 anyways. PaintShop Pro is also a very powerful piece of software for professional image editing on a budget. Don't run windows xp. I mean, it's not like there's software that will only run on xp and there's a bum rush to get it. Besides, there's a lot of issues with it apparently.

 

[Nefrodite]

piracy in countries other then our own isn't too too bad. it destroys their software industries

 

[alpha88]

I dont buy everything that I use, but anything I use regularly I got legally.
OS - from compsci department
Office - compsci department
games:
ashersons call: bought
aoe2: bought
ut: free

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< Stealing software is not like stealing a TV or something physical--it's just information >>

What? Just information? You have got to be kidding me, right? Hardly. It is the creative effort and tireless hours of programmers' hard work. If anybody could write a program like Photoshop, Q3A, et al, then it might be a different story, but programmers' have a unique talent, and any such talent deserves to be rewarded for their work. You don't propose they work for free do you? And if you argue that stealing the program doesn't hurt the programmer, rather just the company, then you are wrong again because if the company loses enough revenues, jobs are sure to follow.



<< Midnight Rambler, you speak like your soul was cleansed by the almighty. Ever break a law? I'm sure you have. Please, save it, there is enough hypocracy in the govt. >>

No, I speak as a person whose job in the past (I now work at a different level) was to design things, who as a result has been granted several patents (in conjunction with my employer), and later had the unfortunate experience of seeing three of our patents violated (actually stolen would be a better word). Although I did later find some satisfaction in seeing a certain S. Korean automaker, responsible for two of the infractions, get tagged with some heavy duty penalties.

Some of you people amaze me with your hypocrisy. I'm sure there's plenty of people here who are/aspire to be programmers, or perhaps future engineers who might work at design, be it in EE or CE, or any other field. There's probably several other creative careers that people here might be interested as well, perhaps even some budding musical star(s) or artist(s). If and when you/they are in such a situation, and have an actual appreciation for the creative process, then I guarantee you/they will have a much different opinion on things like pirating software, illegally copying music, etc. etc.

And no, I haven't broken any laws ... well, OK, I do drive 5 MPH over the speed limit on a consistent basis, but that's it. In actuality, I have always passed my background checks when my job required it. Can/could you say the same?

 

[hans007]

i think some games have actually been made more popular from copying. i guess, its not worth buying a lot of them so you pirate them first. lots of games really just suck. like i buy games if i like them, like basically every game made by blizzard i've bought, a long with some EA sports stuff, and halflife and some others.

 

[RoninRXN]

<< And no, I haven't broken any laws ... well, OK, I do drive 5 MPH over the speed limit on a consistent basis, but that's it. In actuality, I have always passed my background checks when my job required it. Can/could you say the same? >>



LOL! So compared to me, you're like church choir boy.

<---- pirates software and drives double the speed limit.

 

[tm37]

OK time to throw a wrench in the whole arguement here for all you so called JUSTIFIED Pirates!

Let's use photoshop and assume that it's street value is $500

Now lets say a smaler company makes a lighter photoediting suite that sells for say $50

Because you can just pirate the photoshop you never look to alternatives, You simply say well I would never pay that much so I'm not stealing from adobe. However you just killed any chance of tm Software from succeeding by not looking for alternatives.

If you claim you can not afford a luxury item, regardless you should not use it. If you think it is overpriced than find an alternative. Why do I still run 98 while my wifes system has 98SE. I own one licence for each there for I installed Se on hers and 98 on mine. I bought office 97 right after 2000 came out because it was cheap $35 I bought TWO licenses. I fought touth and nail with my former boss about buyibg multiple copies of both windows and office and I was told it was a "waste of money" We are talkin about A few hundred dollars in a company that does over 3 mil in revanue! He actually suggested we put pirated Windows on Customers computers! ( I told him I WOULD NOT do this)

At some point software has to sell for what the market will bear. If someone is will to spend $200 dollars for a retail copy of XP then MS has every right to sell it for that. Of course you can get it much cheaper OEM. Or if you are a student. If they sold all software at academic prices most companies would fold. Why do they then? Same reason some medical equiptment manufactors give large discounts to universities. You tend to stay with what you learned on.

When you look at the money that ADOBE spends on research, development and marketing you would easily see why Photshop costs $500 and should they drop the price to say $100 most of you woukd still say that's to high. Don't tell me that you feal software is overpriced because aslong as it cost more than say the cost of a CDR you will continue to cry gouging and poverty.

Here's the litmus test. How many of you using photshop illegally have a processor above say 700MhZ? You really only need a 400 processor to do most anything.

after scanning the rigs of some of the proudest pirates I found some interesting things!


BingBongWongFooey uses @home normally $40-$50 a month. why not use dial up and have that $20 or more a month for software.

no0b does feel the need to pay for OS's but hey he can afford a VisionTek (Geforce3 Ti200) to go with his KDS Avitron 19 and his @ home connection.

Yes GOSHARKS games are to expensive but that setup you run them on sure seems nice Gosharks SCSI Monster

RoninRXN only pays for software that is cheap or can't be ripped but his system Very Nice

After looking at your rig I was really amused by this line



<< you think I have $500 to spend on Photoshop and XP? I can tell you about an even bigger discount called "Free". >>



And saving for a car After the computer?

Bleep can't aford multiple OS but he can afford 6 COMPUTERS :Q


You clamor that you can't afford to buy the software but the fact is YOU CHOOSE NOT TO! Why? You would rather spend your money on hardware that cannot be pirated. I am sure that as soon as that is an option you will all be doing that as well. What you fail to see is while you may not put MS out of bussiness you do hinder smaller companies from competing.

 

[hans007]

also i think paintshop pro (which you can try with a trial no less) is far better for the average person than photoshop since you can draw with it, and with photoshop you'd also need illustrator.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

I work in the software industry, so perhaps my opinion might actually have some weight here.

Yeah, program sales pay the bills, and they give me a paycheck too.
However if someone really wasn't going to buy the software anyway, or if they're trying it out, I have no problem with that whatsoever. In fact, smaller companies may actually benefit from such practices because it gets the software and their name out there. We of course do not officially support piracy.

I believe that corporate entities should pay for the software they use, with no exceptions. I believe that serious gamers should pay for the games they use if they use them regularly (if you play C&C: RA2 twice and decide you don't like it...why should you pay for it?). I believe that it's ok for a small group of people with very little money to pool their resources together to purchase one software license and share the software, as long as the money really is that scarce; that's one sale the company would not have received if they didn't pool their money together.
I believe that for home users, one software license should entitle you to free upgrades; ideally for life, but for at least a year. (This does not apply to games however: i.e. owning Quake II should not entitle you to Quake III for free).

I believe that home users should be able to use corporate level software for free if it is used for education/non profit only. This will ultimately benefit the company as it will lead to one more person in the corporate arena who knows how to use their software, which could lead to more sales.

And lastly, I believe in paying for good software. If the program is poorly written, you should not have to pay for it. It is difficult to determine this without using a trail version, or pirating a copy and limiting yourself to using it only a few times.

Personally, I buy what I need and what I can afford - I like to support those who innovate and produce useful programs, and I know from first hand experience that it is impossible to judge the quality of a piece of software based on reviews or what the box looks like.

The views expressed here are in no way representative of the views of my company.

 

[GoSharks]

<< Yes GOSHARKS games are to expensive but that setup you run them on sure seems nice Gosharks SCSI Monster >>



that would be a great argument, if only my dad didnt "aquire" them from his work.

oh, that goes for the moniter also

 

[TimidOCer]

I. Pirate. Software & Music.


I can make up a bunch of excuses.... but the main one is money... I seriously cant afford to buy new software.. but anyway I buy really superb games that are worth it.. Most games arent worth squat. I bought half life because that game ownZ!

Operating Systems : well lets see I bought 98 then I pirated ME , 2k , xp , xp pro..... yeah that covers it... Then I got into warez as a hobby. I wouldnt even use the software I downloaded heck half the time it would stay in zip form or rar... I once downloaded in one day:

98, 2k , ME , XP home, xp pro , xp plus , office 2k , office xp , a crap load of games...

Ahh yes its more fun just collecting it then using.. then the once in every 2 months time I need to use one of these $100++ programs I will have em... and the thing is I dont use them enough to warant buying it so I dont.