Soldiers must shed home bought body armor or lose death benefits!

[Brutuskend]

WTF!!?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
First off, I'm a bit skeptical of exactly how this went down.

Dragon Skin, from everything I've heard, is the cats ass of armor. That said, what happens when a GI dies wearing Dragon Skin instead of the issued stuff? Is Dragon Skin proven to be better then the issued stuff?

As for denying benefits, I'm also skeptical on that. *I* would venture to say its a commander overstepping his bounds, but obviously I cant say that for sure.

yes its better, it can take multiple hits and still stop the rounds. the ceramic plate crap will stop a round, but only one round and it turns to dust and only if the troop is hit in the center of the chest or center of the back. I wore that stuff, its freicken heavy each plate is like 18 pounds. i have no idea how much dragonskin weighs since i have only seen it on tv and have no personal experience with it.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Specop 007
First off, I'm a bit skeptical of exactly how this went down.

Dragon Skin, from everything I've heard, is the cats ass of armor. That said, what happens when a GI dies wearing Dragon Skin instead of the issued stuff? Is Dragon Skin proven to be better then the issued stuff?

As for denying benefits, I'm also skeptical on that. *I* would venture to say its a commander overstepping his bounds, but obviously I cant say that for sure.

yes its better, it can take multiple hits and still stop the rounds. the ceramic plate crap will stop a round, but only one round and it turns to dust and only if the troop is hit in the center of the chest or center of the back. I wore that stuff, its freicken heavy each plate is like 18 pounds. i have no idea how much dragonskin weighs since i have only seen it on tv and have no personal experience with it.

Yep, and from what I understand they are adding shoulder pads and side torso pads to the body armor as well. That's another 18lbs or so. There are reports that some don't wear all the armor out in the field because it limits their mobility.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
this is so Political Forum material guys.

The mods can move it if they'd like. It doesn't belong there any more than this thread.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
The reason this is done is that in the military EVERYONE gets the same equipment. We are opening a whole can of worms if we let people bring their own armor in. What happens if it breaks or needs repair? Yes I would like to say that they should be able to bring whatever they want but it just isn't as easy as that.

Well if it breaks down, you toss it and use issued stuff.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: Sphexi

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
We can buy billion dollar stealth bombers we rarely use but we can't buy our troops armored vests?

Oh, they have vests. They're just not as good. Here how it works:

1. US Government needs new vests/armor.
2. US Government decides to spend $10 million developing new vests.
3. US Government takes bids, picks a company, pays them $10 million.
4. Company overruns budget, takes 5 years to do a job they could've in 1 year, end up costing US Government $30 million.
5. 10 private companies spend $100k each to develop lighter, tougher armor, offer it to the US Government, but because of the huge waste of money spent on the original armor, US Government refuses better armor, saying they have to use their armor for the "useful lifetime" of the product.
6. Soldiers suffer.

The bidding system the government uses for most of its projects from military to infrastructure is greatly flawed and often leads to project over cost and delays. It encourages companies to make bids that they cannot meet.

 

[Vich]

i dunno what to say. I just want our soldiers to have the best chance of coming back home.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
More than likely, they were told to use the issued armour rather than the personal.
By using persona larmour when the issued armour is available, could cause legal issues.

I'm not really sure how it is this time but when my brother went with the initial ground force (first tour) he wasnt issued the additional military issue insert for his vest so my family bought him the insert and sent it over. I know he has it with him this tour (second tour). Weather or not it was the military issue version it's better than what WAS issued to him (which was nothing)

Not everyone got the issued armor
Familys bought comercial armor to protect loved ones
Person not issued armor because he already has armor
Military says they will cut benefits if soldier not wearing issued armor


So what about that situation. They dont give it to you becasue you already had an armor insert and then they tell you that the armor insert you had will make your family not recieve benefits if you die even though you were not issued the armor insert.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Specop 007
First off, I'm a bit skeptical of exactly how this went down.

Dragon Skin, from everything I've heard, is the cats ass of armor. That said, what happens when a GI dies wearing Dragon Skin instead of the issued stuff? Is Dragon Skin proven to be better then the issued stuff?

As for denying benefits, I'm also skeptical on that. *I* would venture to say its a commander overstepping his bounds, but obviously I cant say that for sure.

yes its better, it can take multiple hits and still stop the rounds. the ceramic plate crap will stop a round, but only one round and it turns to dust and only if the troop is hit in the center of the chest or center of the back. I wore that stuff, its freicken heavy each plate is like 18 pounds. i have no idea how much dragonskin weighs since i have only seen it on tv and have no personal experience with it.

Will it stop 7.62R? That has been deployed in Iraq, and the ceramic plates will stop it.

 

[Desslok]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Sphexi

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
We can buy billion dollar stealth bombers we rarely use but we can't buy our troops armored vests?

Oh, they have vests. They're just not as good. Here how it works:

1. US Government needs new vests/armor.
2. US Government decides to spend $10 million developing new vests.
3. US Government takes bids, picks a company, pays them $10 million.
4. Company overruns budget, takes 5 years to do a job they could've in 1 year, end up costing US Government $30 million.
5. 10 private companies spend $100k each to develop lighter, tougher armor, offer it to the US Government, but because of the huge waste of money spent on the original armor, US Government refuses better armor, saying they have to use their armor for the "useful lifetime" of the product.
6. Soldiers suffer.

You obviously have no idea how the acquisitions cycle works in the government.

There are multiple ways the government goes about acquiring things like armor. The armor we currectly use in the military is pretty good. The draw back in how easily you can manuever. How do I know? Because I was in Iraq and I had to wear it.

For the most part, the government develops very little these days. The government relies on private/commercial industry to provide the capabilities.

Where you see a lot of waste is in developing new vehicles, ie planes, trucks, tanks and so on.....

QFT

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
this is so Political Forum material guys.

Posting here allows for better discussion imo

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: skace
Well, they are wearing the vests to survive not to die. If I was the parent of one of those kids, I'd tell him to keep the vest on, I don't give a sh!t about money if you die, I want you to come home alive.

Preach on brother.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: moshquerade
this is so Political Forum material guys.

The mods can move it if they'd like. It doesn't belong there any more than this thread.

Edit: Moderator made me review my post.

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=490

Dragon Skin can apparently stop the 7.62mm rifle rounds.


------------------------------------------
Personal attacks such as this are frowned upon

Mod

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Sphexi
Stupid. We aren't providing them with armored vehicles, the proper equipment, or body armor that's up to standards, yet they go out and get their own they're told they can't use it? How about since they're over there, and there's about a hundred different ways to die that have NOTHING to do with body armor, we just shut the hell up and pay the benefit if the worst should happen. Are insurance companies that greedy that they'd deny families what they're owed based on some goddamn technicality?

Unfortunately, yes. :/

Insurance companies have paid employees who's job it is to detect technicalities just as you described.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Moshquerade is just mad because this thread isn't about flirting or something. THer'es only room in her ditzy little brain for sex. Some of us actually care about the lives of other people.

somebody got off on the wrong foot today...

 

[habib89]

well has the military actually field tested this dragon skin vest? makes sense to me that the government wouldn't insure a soldier wearing unproven armor... would your car insurance company insure you if you had an untested car? i don't think so

 

[BabaBooey]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
We can buy billion dollar stealth bombers we rarely use but we can't buy our troops armored vests?

Go government !!!!


:roll:

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: moshquerade
this is so Political Forum material guys.

The mods can move it if they'd like. It doesn't belong there any more than this thread.

Moshquerade is just mad because this thread isn't about flirting or something. THer'es only room in her ditzy little brain for sex. Some of us actually care about the lives of other people.

:shocked:

I commend you for feeling so free to speak your mind in this "new era of ATOT"

 

[Jeffito123]

umm...i'm in the army...i've been over there

they do give u bullet proof vests when you deploy...they have these REALLY hard slabs inside of them which protect your chest, back, and nuts
they're heavy as f, but they do the job and u get use to it after a while (vs the flask vests we use in training back here at home)

you also deploy with WAY better vehicles...as in armored vehicles...rather than crappy hwmvs (m998)

as far as these soldiers, they're dumb...the stuff we use now is great...and i could see why the army would do that...it's not authorized...what if it malfunctions and the soldiers get shot? who's to blame? the government, the soldiers, or the makers of the stuff they bought?

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: Jeffito123
umm...i'm in the army...i've been over there

they do give u bullet proof vests when you deply...they have these REALLY hard slabs inside of them which protect your chest, back, and nuts
they're heavy as f, but they do the job and u get use to it after a while (vs the flask vests we use in training back here at home)

you also deply with WAY better vehicles...as in armored vehicles...rather than crappy hwmvs (m998)

as far as these soldiers, they're dumb...the stuff we use now is great...and i could see why the army would do that...it's not authorized...what if it malfunctions and the soldiers get shot? who's to blame? the government, the soldiers, or the makers of the stuff they bought?

"deply"?

 

[Jeffito123]

wow...i can't speel

 

[John P]

Military says they will cut benefits if soldier not wearing issued armor

That makes the most sense of anything I have read in this thread. The regulations suposedly don't allow for optional armor since the troops aren't trained to use it and perhaps has not been tested enough.

I'm not saying that the government is doing everything perfectly but I do know there are a lot of people who are quick to point fingers without knowing the entire story.

If it's my kids I do the research myself and make sure he is wearing the best for his well being, no matter what the cost. I'd sort the rest out later.

 

[gwrober]

I've seen this first hand - in our case it wasn't an issue of whether or not to wear armor, it was an issue of whether or not the gvmt had tested and/or approved specific types/brands of armor. In the event that a soldier was killed wearing "non-approved" (does NOT mean "not good") armor, the gvmt is liable, even tho it was the soldier's decision. The armor we had wasn't that bad, it was heavy and bulky, but it was safe. And free (issued).

I'm all for getting better personal equipment for our troops....but the gvmt even tells you that if you even partake in an extreme sport off duty without signing a waiver, you can get denied life insurance....

 

[iamtrout]

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Sphexi
Stupid. We aren't providing them with armored vehicles, the proper equipment, or body armor that's up to standards, yet they go out and get their own they're told they can't use it? How about since they're over there, and there's about a hundred different ways to die that have NOTHING to do with body armor, we just shut the hell up and pay the benefit if the worst should happen. Are insurance companies that greedy that they'd deny families what they're owed based on some goddamn technicality?

Unfortunately, yes. :/

Insurance companies have paid employees who's job it is to detect technicalities just as you described.

WTF? How are the insurance companies being greedy? If Dragon Skin is indeed better than the standard issue armor then insurance is being STUPID! Dragin Skin better, less people die, insurance has to pay LESS. Stay with standard issue, more people die, insurance has to pay MORE than if they'd gone with Dragon Skin.

 

[John P]

If Dragon Skin is indeed better than the standard issue armor then insurance is being STUPID! Dragin Skin better, less people die, insurance has to pay LESS. Stay with standard issue, more people die, insurance has to pay MORE than if they'd gone with Dragon Skin.

Have you seen actual third party testing saying this is so (better than standard isssue)? I would be interested in seeing that since I am pretty ignorant on the subject.

It takes a while for a big corporation like the US govt to react to new technology. They did a study showing the shoulder and side protection saved lives so now it looks like they will start issuing that.

I am sure that some of us work for companies that have safety policies and standard issue safety equipment right? Factory environment, mining, etc.... The company probably issues their own safety equipment and would frown upon bringing in uncertified personal safety equipment as a substitute right? Tools need to be calibrated, employees need to be ceritified to use the equipment, etc...