Solution for Isreal -- begin annexing land.

[halik]

Originally posted by: magomago
this is the worst idea I have ever heard.

QFT

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Future Shock
Your posts, beside being short of logic, spelling, grammar, and historical accuracy, are very funny.

If you think I'm gonna spellcheck and make sure everything is nice and neat just for you, then you are delusional beyond redemption.

BTW - Israel was not attacked with rockets by Hezzbolah until after they flew air sorties against Hezzbolah on LEBANESE land - oops, did we forget that?[/quote]

No point in quoting the rest of your nonsense, since it's not worth the wasted bits.
You obviously don't know much about the history of the region, or you are very selective.

Here's a bit about you Hezbollah friends, so you might wake up from your dream:

AIN EBEL, LEBANON -- Therese Asrouni felt no love for either side as she watched an intense firefight between Israeli soldiers and Hezbollah guerrillas out her window yesterday. She loathed them both for once more turning her tiny tobacco-farming community into a war zone. Residents of Ain Ebel say Hezbollah has been drawing fire toward the Christian village by launching Katyusha rockets from the nearby tobacco fields, just a few hundred metres from Ms. Asrouni's home. The militants leave when Israel returns fire, witnesses said.

BTW, I underestimated the problem -- try a 12v battery.[/quote]


I know, it's hard on you - you just joined the site and you wish to try to make an impression. Any impression will do. Perhaps you just lost your job and you have lots of free time to spend on-line, or perhaps school is out and GameBoy has lost it's allure. Whatever.

Anyone who has read any of my many posts regarding Lebanon knows I am no friend of Hezzbolah - whom I consider terrorist, Syrian proxies who should all be eradicated (painfully if possible). But all Israel has managed to do is make the 80% of Lebanon whom hated Hezzbollah look to them as defenders - while pissing off Israel's natural, historical allies, the Christian Lebanese. All in 30 days, with no resolution to the problem of Hezzbolah.

That is a strategic blunder of the first order, period. There is NO WAY you can argue that it did anything else, that it accomplished anything positive, that it severly degraded Hezzbolah militarily. It didn't. It just turned a neutral country that was an unwilling host into a more willing host, and angered friends that had bled with it and for it.

Good going - not. And arguing that "they had to do SOMETHING" doesn't make it any less of a strategic blunder. It just keeps proving that the Israeli hawks are the country's own worst enemies long term...

Israel sought to teach a lesson with a massive, armed response. Unfortunately, the lesson it taught was how a terrorist leader can use a stalemate to boost his stature and position...and procure more funding and weapons in the future.

Future Shock

BTW - what SHOULD Israel have done? Given the sovereign Lebanese government a chance (and ultimatum) to get the two Israeli soldiers back at the start of this, and given them all the intelligence and technological help that they could behind the scenes...you know, actually partner with the OTHER democracy in the region rather than destroy it. Mossad could have been of a great deal of help perhaps. If they couldn't do it, then at least Israel would have SOMETHING to hide behind and deflect criticism regarding the destruction of Lebanon.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think it's a great idea. By the time every Israeli is dead Israel will be huge.

 

[IrateLeaf]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Future Shock
Go crawl back into a hole - the ONE Arab democracy that has shown 10+ years of actually working is Lebanon, with a working, consitutional, elected government with representation from all main religious factions engineered by law, on the verge of finally wresting control of their internal politics entirely from Syrian control, at the peak of a real estate and business re-building spree, and you and Israel can't wait to put them back in the Stone Age. Great going...idiots.

Yeah, Israel just could wait to blow all those millions of dollars on air sorties and ammunition. Also, it just could wait to get hit economically due to:

1. Closed factories
2. Closed businesses
3. Closed Haifa port
4. Damaged buildings
5. Loss of turism revenue

Yep, those zionist pigs really pulled a fast one this time.

Go jumpstart your brain with a 9v battery shock to the tongue.

Your posts, beside being short of logic, spelling, grammar, and historical accuracy, are very funny.

BTW - Israel was not attacked with rockets by Hezzbolah until after they flew air sorties against Hezzbolah on LEBANESE land - oops, did we forget that? It was the attack on a neutral country by Israel that lent legitimacy to the Hezzbolah rocket attacks - even to the the Christian Lebanese who had fought WITH ISRAEL during the Civil War. Imagine that - doing something so stupid that you enrage and alienate the non-Muslim Arab allies that fought WITH you during a decade of civil war against common, terrorist enemies and Syria.
Your knowledge of this area and it's history border on kindergarten coloring books...please try to stay within the lines.

Future Shock

Courtesy of Wikipedia --
Thats not true at all. Sorry you have your facts mixed up.
Many things contributed to the war.
The conflict began when a Hezbollah unit conducted a cross-border raid, capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing three. Israel responded with massive airstrikes across much of Lebanon, a ground invasion of southern Lebanon, and an air and naval blockade, while Hezbollah launched thousands of rockets into northern Israel and engaged the Israeli Army on the ground by guerrilla warfare.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Isn't it strange how the militant right-wing political party in Israel, got to have a little war, right after Sharoon had a medical problem and had to be put into a coma? Could it have been a "medical coup"? He did seem to be drifting away from the hard-liner party that got him elected.

 

[straightalker]

Jihadist Nations or Jihadist groups like the PLO, which was lead for many years by a pedophile boy lover, are in a tough spot so close to Israel. The possibility of peace is dependent upon both sides being able to negotiate a peace settlement when neither side's religion or desires are even slightly compatible with. Hate has grown to far and has outstripped any nugget of a chance for goodwill to develop.

The old way of peaceful co-existence between Jihadist, Jew and Christian, that some say lasted peacefully for hundreds of years without wars at various times the past couple thousand years, is now impossible. There's just too much violence that has gone down the past few decades and especially now, since the Western Alliance of the USA/Israel/Britain began pounding the Jihadist's oil regions and stealing the control of those regions.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think it's a great idea. By the time every Israeli is dead Israel will be huge.

:laugh:

 

[bamacre]

What part of the US do the Iraqi's get?

 

[imported_dna]

I don't know -- the vast majority of civilian casualties is not due to US troops, but due to secterian violence, outside terrorists, and "conventional" crime.
But they can take a piece of Iran.

 

[Extelleron]

I agree with you that Israel needs to take a tougher stance, but this isn't the way to go. Israel is as tired of the terrorists as we are, and if another rocket is fired out of Lebanon, it's the last straw. Israel will most likely invade Lebanon and simply take it over. They're being kind by giving Lebanon another chance, I don't know if I would have done what Israel has done in accepting the UN Cease-fire which will only make the conflict last longer.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Here is my solution for Isreal's problem. For every Isreali civilian killed by terrorist attacks, whether from Hamas or Hezbolla, righteously and rightfully claim ownership of one square mile of Palestinian or Lebanese territory. For every seriously wounded civilian, claim 1/2 a square mile.

That's about as piss poor, ill conceived an idea as I could imagine. You assume Israel would't get any flack from the entire rest of the world for it or that they could withstand whatever reaction resulted. I don't think even the U.S. would stand by them for such an action.

:thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: dna
I don't know -- the vast majority of civilian casualties is not due to US troops, but due to secterian violence, outside terrorists, and "conventional" crime.
But they can take a piece of Iran.

Ah, but what of the 20+ in Haditha and family of 4 in Baquba? What of all those who were killed in places like Abu Ghraib? And are we going to give Cuba 73 square miles of our land for allowing Luis Posada Carriles to live freely in Miami as well as his association with the CIA until the press got ahold of it and they finally had to arrest him? And what of the fact that we refuse to extradite him according to international treaty so he'll never be punished for the murder of those poeple on that Cuban airlineer?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Here is my solution for Isreal's problem. For every Isreali civilian killed by terrorist attacks, whether from Hamas or Hezbolla, righteously and rightfully claim ownership of one square mile of Palestinian or Lebanese territory. For every seriously wounded civilian, claim 1/2 a square mile.

As the number of civilian casualties build, you move your border one mile out. So if the border between Isreal and Lebanon were, say, 50 miles wide, then when 50 civilians have been killed (or 25 killed and 50 wounded), then you claim ownership of that 50 x 1 mile strip and move in to occupy it, clearing out all of the people who live there.

This would put pressure on civilians in these areas to string up the terrorists who are using them as human shields and pawns and also it would provide compensation for Isreal and it would increase the nation's security by pushing the border further out. It would also create a permanent punishment for terror attacks.

The message from Isreal. "Get off our land! You surrendered it when you attacked us from that land. We're taking it over, get the F out."

Isreal, the U.S., and the rest of the Western nations need to grow some cajones.

:thumbsup: Great idea, let's apply it to both side. I think Israel might have just handed their land to Lebanon with the last attack. that should end the fricking conflict over there for good!!

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: jimkyser
Ah, but what of the 20+ in Haditha and family of 4 in Baquba? What of all those who were killed in places like Abu Ghraib? ....

All joking aside, what you're talking about is nothing compared to the secterian violence: tens of thousands dead. Also, under Saddam's rule we're talking about hundreds of thousands. Are you really gonna put that up against what some wacko soldiers did?

Anyway, how many people died in Abu Ghriab? I'm sure it won't get your total count any closer to second place.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: rchiu
:thumbsup: Great idea, let's apply it to both side. I think Israel might have just handed their land to Lebanon with the last attack. that should end the fricking conflict over there for good!!

After discounting for Hezbollah fighters, fabricated civilian deaths, and civilian deaths due to Hezbollah tactics (i.e. Qana), I dare say you'll come up pretty short.
Furthermore, we should add all terrorist attacks that originated in Lebanon, which was the base of Araft in the 1970's, so you should add the following terrorist attacks, along with the murders in the Munich Olympics.

You better start crunching numbers.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna
... and civilian deaths due to Hezbollah tactics (i.e. Qana),

Eh? The Israeli government isn't claiming that. And of course if we want to count past deaths we would have to get into all the Palestinian and other civilians who have been killed in this conflict over the years as well.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Eh? The Israeli government isn't claiming that. And of course if we want to count past deaths we would have to get into all the Palestinian and other civilians who have been killed in this conflict over the years as well.

Go ahead, I'm sure you'll be surprised.
Just make sure you subtract 2 for Mohamed al-Durah and his daddy.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: magomago
this is the worst idea I have ever heard.

QFT

Its worse than a "Jump To Conclusions" mat, that's how bad this ****** is.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Eh? The Israeli government isn't claiming that. And of course if we want to count past deaths we would have to get into all the Palestinian and other civilians who have been killed in this conflict over the years as well.

Go ahead, I'm sure you'll be surprised.
Just make sure you subtract 2 for Mohamed al-Durah and his daddy.

Do you have any idea how many civilans died the last time Israel invaded Lebanon?

 

[Drift3r]

As long as American soldiers and lives are not invovled I could gvie a crap about the OP's plan. Let Israel sink in the sea or destory itself by constant conflict and warfare. America needs to divorce itself from the ME including Israel. Imagine if we were as invovled in African regional problems ( like Liberia a colony founded by former African American slaves which has had a few civil wars in the past ) as we are with the ME and Israel ? We'd be stuck in the same crappy corner we are now but we are not because most Americans ( including the Po-Israel lobby ) don't wanna die for some "darkies" and the idea of spreading "democracy" to them like the "benevolent great Whitey " we seem to act like in the ME. So yeah all you pro-Israel war mongers can do what you like as long as it's your lives being put on the line and not American lives, money and weapons. America first and foremost and Israel and the rest of the world can eat shit and die IMHO. Yeah this is a rant just like the OP's. Ain't it ironic ?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Eh? The Israeli government isn't claiming that. And of course if we want to count past deaths we would have to get into all the Palestinian and other civilians who have been killed in this conflict over the years as well.

Go ahead, I'm sure you'll be surprised.
Just make sure you subtract 2 for Mohamed al-Durah and his daddy.

Do you have any idea how many civilans died the last time Israel invaded Lebanon?

The difference between Hezbollah and Israel is that Hezbollah purposefully targets civilians (ie terrorism) whereas Israel sends warnings to get out, thus any civilian casualties are accidents when they target Hezbollah strongholds (military, not civilian, targets). Civilian casualties are a shame, but it is going to happen when you?re trying to defend your own civilians.

 

[kylebisme]

Israel bombed far more than Hezbollah strongohlds this time in Lebanon, and the time before that Hezbollah didn't even exist.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Here's a great op-ed that's consistent with my view:

The Indispensible Condition of Peace

Only when the initiators of force learn that their actions lead to their own destruction, will peace be possible in the Middle East.

Hmm? so this is where it's coming from.

This is a very good example of how oversimplifying the middle east situation can lead to the wrong conclusion.

There are NO magic tricks!

Now, WhipperSnapper, do you want the short, long or ridiculously long explanation why he is wrong? Edit

Originally posted by: Future Shock
the ONE Arab democracy that has shown 10+ years of actually working is Lebanon

only because Syria allowed them to have a democracy in the last 9 years.

with a working, consitutional, elected government with representation from all main religious factions engineered by law,

on paper, yes, but the government (as in the whole execution branch) for the last 9 years was nothing but a puppet controlled by Syria.

on the verge of finally wresting control of their internal politics entirely from Syrian control, at the peak of a real estate and business re-building spree

the minute they started to break loose from Syria iron grip on them, that is the moment when TONS of foreign investments has started to flow into Lebanon, mainly from Europe.

HOWEVER, what most people fail to understand is that Syria still has a very large influence on Lebanon, especially of course on south Lebanon, where the hizbala is affectively the ruling government.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: Future Shock
BTW - Israel was not attacked with rockets by Hezzbolah until after they flew air sorties against Hezzbolah on LEBANESE land - oops, did we forget that? It was the attack on a neutral country by Israel that lent legitimacy to the Hezzbolah rocket attacks - even to the the Christian Lebanese who had fought WITH ISRAEL during the Civil War. Imagine that - doing something so stupid that you enrage and alienate the non-Muslim Arab allies that fought WITH you during a decade of civil war against common, terrorist enemies and Syria.

Future Shock

Courtesy of Wikipedia --
Thats not true at all. Sorry you have your facts mixed up.
Many things contributed to the war.
The conflict began when a Hezbollah unit conducted a cross-border raid, capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing three. Israel responded with massive airstrikes across much of Lebanon, a ground invasion of southern Lebanon, and an air and naval blockade, while Hezbollah launched thousands of rockets into northern Israel and engaged the Israeli Army on the ground by guerrilla warfare.

Actually, my statement was just a summary of the last encounter - it was not meant to be a compendium. I was responding to dna's point that indicated that Hezbollah rockets had predicated the war. The flashpoint was unequivicably the siezure of the two Israeli soldiers as you state as well - it's just that Hezzbollah did NOT fire massive rocket attacks until after Israel had bombed Lebanese territory. You're "while" is a bit ambiguous - the Israelis struck first to escalate the raid to a war, while Hezbollah was looking for a prisoner exchange.

Future Shock

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Future Shock
it's just that Hezzbollah did NOT fire massive rocket attacks until after Israel had bombed Lebanese territory

Don't you mean Hezbollah territory?
After all, the Lebanese government has no authority there, and the army doesn't dare venture there.