Question [SOLVED] PC Does Not Boot

[mikeymikec]

So

So, I tried booting it without my SSD. No change in the problem. So, I guess it is the MOBO. One question, look at the screws on which the MOBO sits:

View attachment 108763

Screws inside the blue boxed line are the ones where MOBO has holes but the scree circled with red has no matching hole on the MOBO. Is it possible that this screw has causes the SSD to fry or fried some part on the MOBO which is respobsible for the booting?

Surely it would have happened on day 1 if that was the case. I would move motherboard spacers that don't correspond to where the board can be screwed in though, that's not great.

I'm curious about no display with no boot device though, it doesn't seem right but it's not completely outside of the bounds of plausibility. I would ask a question on the MSI reddit simply asking whether a healthy MSI board of this generation would do that or whether there would be an on-screen message.

I'm 99% certain an ASUS board of the last several generations (probably anything since the introduction of UEFI) would dump the user at the BIOS non-advanced configuration screen if there wasn't a boot device available. Pre UEFI I would have expected the classic on-screen message 'no boot device found' or thereabouts.

 

[arnuld]

Surely it would have happened on day 1 if that was the case. I would move motherboard spacers that don't correspond to where the board can be screwed in though, that's not great.

I'm curious about no display with no boot device though, it doesn't seem right but it's not completely outside of the bounds of plausibility. I would ask a question on the MSI reddit simply asking whether a healthy MSI board of this generation would do that or whether there would be an on-screen message.

I'm 99% certain an ASUS board of the last several generations (probably anything since the introduction of UEFI) would dump the user at the BIOS non-advanced configuration screen if there wasn't a boot device available. Pre UEFI I would have expected the classic on-screen message 'no boot device found' or thereabouts.

yeah, I forgot to mention that I put that screw after I replaced my PSU 2 days ago. Actually it was missing 2 screws. Like 2 in the blue box. I pout an extra one because misidentified the places where MOBO sits.

 

[Paperdoc]

YES, that stand-off in your picture CAN cause a big problem. Any stand-off NOT where there is a mounting hole in the mobo can cause a short circuit to Ground from a trace line on the bottom of the mobo. You cannot have that in your system!

That said, obviously this can not impact your system in your out-of-case test setup. Just to be sure that was done right, this is the start of "breadboard" testing. The mobo is on a non-conductive surface. You MUST have installed on that board:
CPU chip and cooler system
Cooling device (fan?) for the CPU installed AND plugged into the CPU_FAN header
1 stick of RAM in the correct slot for single stick operation - manual p. 4, slot DIMMA2
Video card in PCIe slot and connected to monitor
PSU connected to board (and video card if needed)
You use a small screwdriver to short out briefly the 2 pins on the mobo's Front Panel header (manual, p. 34, JFP1, pins 6 and 8) labelled Power Switch to trigger a start-up.

Without those minimal items installed the board cannot start. If it works, it will POST properly but end with an error message that it had no boot device (the SSD unit that is NOT installed).

If that does not start up and complete POST, there is a problem with the mobo OR your PSU. That misplaced stand-off MIGHT have caused damage to the mobo, OR to the PSU - even the new one if you used that with the original system in the case. Can you borrow a PSU from somewhere and try that in the breadboard set-up?

If you can get it working outside the case, post back here for how to re-locate that misplaced stand-off.

 

[arnuld]

YES, that stand-off in your picture CAN cause a big problem. Any stand-off NOT where there is a mounting hole in the mobo can cause a short circuit to Ground from a trace line on the bottom of the mobo. You cannot have that in your system!

That said, obviously this can not impact your system in your out-of-case test setup. Just to be sure that was done right, this is the start of "breadboard" testing. The mobo is on a non-conductive surface. You MUST have installed on that board:
CPU chip and cooler system
Cooling device (fan?) for the CPU installed AND plugged into the CPU_FAN header
1 stick of RAM in the correct slot for single stick operation - manual p. 4, slot DIMMA2
Video card in PCIe slot and connected to monitor
PSU connected to board (and video card if needed)
You use a small screwdriver to short out briefly the 2 pins on the mobo's Front Panel header (manual, p. 34, JFP1, pins 6 and 8) labelled Power Switch to trigger a start-up.

Without those minimal items installed the board cannot start. If it works, it will POST properly but end with an error message that it had no boot device (the SSD unit that is NOT installed).

If that does not start up and complete POST, there is a problem with the mobo OR your PSU. That misplaced stand-off MIGHT have caused damage to the mobo, OR to the PSU - even the new one if you used that with the original system in the case. Can you borrow a PSU from somewhere and try that in the breadboard set-up?

If you can get it working outside the case, post back here for how to re-locate that misplaced stand-off.

I tried this minimal configuration buy sadly no luck on display. Unfortunately, no one buys desktops anymore, all of my friends have laptops. So can't test. I ran this experiment though from reddit:

Any damage to that part of the motherboard?

No, nothing at all. Physically, it's 100% fine

Start w/ the CPU installed only.
Clear CMOS before attempting this.
Connect the PSU up and boot the system.
Ideally you should see the RAM lights come on and stay on

Yes, RAM LEDs stay on. It even beeps complaining about no RAM.

reboot 3 or 4 times more and make sure you get the same consistent behavior

Yes, it is consistent

Install the RAM next and the GPU light should come on and stay on

I have two RAMs and slots are marked as A1,A2, B1,B2. Manual says:

• 1 RAM - A2

I used single RAM, so I put in A2.

It never complains about GPU. GPU LED never comes on. Guess what remains on? BOOT LED. Rebooted 4 times and all times same behavior

SSD (M.2)

So, after all of the above, since BOOT LED was coming on, next I installed SSD (M.2) then and booted it up. No LED lights turned on. I rebooted 4 times to conform this. All fine.

Graphics Card

Now I put graphics card this time, No LED lights turn on. It's running but no display on monitor. Monitor says no signal detected.

2nd RAM

I put in the 2nd RAM and BOOT LED comes up. I rebooted 4 times to confirm this.

So I go back to just single RAM but BOOT LED remains on. Then I removed graphics card, still BOOT LED on, Then I shut off the machine for few minutes, turn the PSU off using the button at the back. 5 min later I turn it on and still BOOT LED comes up. I removed SSD too. Still BOOT LED remains on.

Honestly I can't think of anymore ideas and experiments now. I might just stash the entire desktop in one corner and focus in saving money to get a new one, Even a new PSU

 

[Paperdoc]

In reviewing your mobo manual I note these factors that MAY be at play. Your board has two M2 slot for SSD's. See manual p. 17. If your SSD is in the M2_1 slot at mid-board just below the CPU, then you cannot use the SATA5 or SATA6 ports for disk drives. If the SSD is in the M2_2 slot (bottom middle below the PCIe slots) then you can use ONLY the PCIe1 slot (the top one closest to the CPU). In the latter case, anything in the PCIe2 though 5 slots means the SSD in the M2_2 slot will NOT be available.

So, for your tabletop testing you would have to have the VIDEO card in the top PCIe1 slot and the SSD right above that in the M2_1 slot. This makes the SATA5 and 6 ports unusable, but that is NOT likely to be a problem for you.

So I suggest you go back to the really bare-bones test sequence, starting from board with CPU and cooler. Clear CMOS, then connect the PSU. Follow your tests above and verify you get the same results. When you install the SSD, ensure it is in the M2_1 slot under the CPU and above the PCIe slots, then proceed. When you install the video card, ensure it goes in that top PCIe1 slot below the SSD. See how that works.

Now one further test if that does NOT work. Move the video card to the other long PCIe slot, number 4. This slot operates more slowly than the PCIe1 slot, but it WILL run that video card. This is just to check whether the PCIe1 slot itself has a problem.

 

[arnuld]

So I suggest you go back to the really bare-bones test sequence, starting from board with CPU and cooler. Clear CMOS, then connect the PSU. Follow your tests above and verify you get the same results. When you install the SSD, ensure it is in the M2_1 slot under the CPU and above the PCIe slots, then proceed. When you install the video card, ensure it goes in that top PCIe1 slot below the SSD. See how that works.

I tried this , this does not work

Now one further test if that does NOT work. Move the video card to the other long PCIe slot, number 4. This slot operates more slowly than the PCIe1 slot, but it WILL run that video card. This is just to check whether the PCIe1 slot itself has a problem.

Yes, this worked. MANY THANKS to you, my computer is now running. Strangely boot record of the OS was wiped off from the SSD. Had to reinstalll Linux. SSD is fine too.

So Both PSU and PCIe1 slot died together? I wonder why

is it because of the weight of the graphics card? The heavy-duty monster size with 3 fans killed the slot pins or something?: https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0782PSHJ3/

I can use this 2nd PCIe slot. As per the diagram and info in the MOBO manual, this is PCI_E4 slot:

1x PCIe 2.0 x16 slot (PCI_E4, supports x4 mode)*/ **
* M2_2 slot will be unavailable when installing device in any one of PCI_E2,
PCI_E3, PCI_E4 and PCI_E5 slots.

Now there is another problem in this PCI_E4 slot. Since it is located at the lower side of the MOBO, the length and width of the RX Vega 64 is now interfering with the SSD bays of the case. Even though I have no SSD there but there is some metal partitioning there which is not allowing the graphics card to sit. Card is longer, check the "Problem Area":







As you can see this metal section has been fixed permanently. So can't remove it. This an Antec GX202 case. The width from the end to the "Problem Area" is 11" while the graphics card is 13" long . The part of the card which has output stays outside the case for screws and the ports. So I guess 1" is that. Hence any 12" wide space wil do. Either I need to buy a new case or a new MOBO. For now I am running the set-up on cardboard box.

Antec on its website says GX202 can handle 375 mm of graphics card length (14.5") but they may be assuming that a person uses the first PCIe slot:

GX202 is the Best Budget Gaming Mid Tower Case and cheap gaming pc case with ATX/3 x 120mm fans included/Transparent Side Panel - Antec

Gaming New Vision GX202 Entry-Level Mid Tower Gaming PC Case SIMPLE, BUT BETTER! Mainboard Support ATX / Micro-ATX / ITX I/O Ports USB3.0 x 2, MIC/AUDIO, POWER, RESET

www.antec.com

From the pics people have posted in the reviews, this case looks like has a lot of space (and it doesn't have that SSD bays problem area, at least from the pics):

https://www.amazon.in/Ant-Esports-ICE-300-Computer-Cabinet/dp/B09X5QSMGB/

But at double the price of that case, I can get a new cheaper b450 MOBO itself:

https://www.amazon.in/MSI-PRO-MAX-II-Motherboard/dp/B0CJ2PXTQ5/

But then there is this case which can handle 335 mm GPUs:

https://www.flipkart.com/ant-esports-elite-1200-support-atx-mb-pre-installed-3-front-fans-1-rear-fan-mid-tower-cabinet/p/itm26e4ed17fdd8f

P.S: One thing I have noticed is graphics card is not used much (even for playing 4K x265 videos). Looks like browsing, youtube, VLC, coding etc, don't depend on GPU much. RX vega 64 barely runs for 30 seconds when it heats up (like every 15-20 minutes or so). Most of the times it's the CPU which is changing fan speed. Just pointing out that maybw next time when I build a PC, I just won't get a graphics card, a simple CPU with gpu would do ( like Ryzen 5600G) or get a smaller graphics card as long as it supports x264/265 codecs.

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for the update, major progress. As for the decision to go with new graphics card or CPU that includes graphics, I don't think I am any help. I am not into gaming, and I know that heavy games need a good card. I believe that simpler games can be done well with CPU-based graphics and non-gaming apps normally can be done well that way. I just do NOT know where the line is that demands a good (or even better) video card. If you don;t get a good set of advice from others here, try starting a new thread asking for advice IF you proceed with replacing mobo and card (or not card).

 

[In2Photos]

Did you try putting the GPU back in the top slot just to make sure it was seated properly?

Those rivets holding the hard drive cage could easily be drilled out so you could remove the entire cage if you are not using it. Do you have access to a drill and a drill bit?

 

[arnuld]

The problem was resolved, here is the continuing discussion: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...-new-case-or-a-mobo-to-fit-rx-vega64.2622756/