Some 20 year old chick gets shot in the head, accidentally, in a church

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,015
10,191
136
So you're all for removing everything that anybody could have an accident with? No personal responsibility...I get it, that's what's wrong with so much these days, if anyone gets hurt by anything let's just take it away from everyone, cause you know nobody can be trusted because this one guy this one time...

No, don't try to take the extreme route to discredit his argument.

Guns can be used (and in this case accidentally) to very easily kill people. It's their purpose. While other items in modern culture can be said to do similar things, there aren't any to satisfy all of those points.

At some point I'll understand why so many Americans seem to consider their environment to be comparable to the dystopia of Mad Max so that they feel the need to arm themselves against what's out there and why the local law enforcement isn't enough to handle the job.

There are enough stupid people in this world to be wary of (like the idiots I've seen showing off in cars in snowy/icy road conditions), why on earth would anyone want them to have the chance to affect other people with their stupidity so easily?

Yes, owning a gun (assuming that I could legally have one) might mean that I could save my own life or someone else's through a responsible use of it, but the likelihood of ever needing one (in the UK I would say that the only people with guns are farmers, farmers' mums*, organised crime and the police when authorised in very particular circumstances, and I've seen about 5 in public in my whole life) is pretty much zilch. Also, the likelihood of a scenario where it was a clear-cut case of "him or me" is also pretty much zilch, because most scenarios aren't like that. I know that there are a lot of budding "cold gun-slingers" on this forum who'll say "if someone does xyz I'll have no compunction about shooting them dead because they're scum and they had it coming", which I can only see as an additional reason why the average person shouldn't have a gun. I think if such people feel as if that sort of snap-judgement has any validity, then they should campaign for every violent offence to carry the death penalty, after all, circumstances aren't that relevant.

If I killed someone and there was a shred of doubt in my mind that the situation could have been handled differently, the guilt would eat away at me for a long time, and when someone is dead because of it, you can't make the situation right.

* - Hot Fuzz reference
 
Last edited:

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I think it should be a mandatory high school class everywhere in the US.

I do too. If you choose to never carry in your life, fine. But everyone should know how a gun works and how to operate it safely.

But I could just see people crying to their congressmen about kids being forced to "play with guns".
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
I'm curious of the irony as well...it's sad that stupid happens though, how can a 48yr old be that dumb?

there's no age limit on stupid.

if you're a dumb kid chances are you're going to be a dumb adult, greying hair isn't going to change that.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
No, don't try to take the extreme route to discredit his argument.

Guns can be used (and in this case accidentally) to very easily kill people. It's their purpose. While other items in modern culture can be said to do similar things, there aren't any to satisfy all of those points.

At some point I'll understand why so many Americans seem to consider their environment to be comparable to the dystopia of Mad Max so that they feel the need to arm themselves against what's out there and why the local law enforcement isn't enough to handle the job.

There are enough stupid people in this world to be wary of (like the idiots I've seen showing off in cars in snowy/icy road conditions), why on earth would anyone want them to have the chance to affect other people with their stupidity so easily?

Yes, owning a gun (assuming that I could legally have one) might mean that I could save my own life or someone else's through a responsible use of it, but the likelihood of ever needing one (in the UK I would say that the only people with guns are farmers, farmers' mums*, organised crime and the police when authorised in very particular circumstances, and I've seen about 5 in public in my whole life) is pretty much zilch. Also, the likelihood of a scenario where it was a clear-cut case of "him or me" is also pretty much zilch, because most scenarios aren't like that. I know that there are a lot of budding "cold gun-slingers" on this forum who'll say "if someone does xyz I'll have no compunction about shooting them dead because they're scum and they had it coming", which I can only see as an additional reason why the average person shouldn't have a gun. I think if such people feel as if that sort of snap-judgement has any validity, then they should campaign for every violent offence to carry the death penalty, after all, circumstances aren't that relevant.

If I killed someone and there was a shred of doubt in my mind that the situation could have been handled differently, the guilt would eat away at me for a long time, and when someone is dead because of it, you can't make the situation right.

* - Hot Fuzz reference

I don't even know where to begin with this amount of misinformation. Defensive use of a firearm happens all the time, hell at least once a week I hear a quick blurb on the news "homeowner shoots intruder, no charges will be filed" in my state. That's all the press it gets, one sentence. Two at most.

About why rely on law enforcement? When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Think about this, somebody busts into your home with the intent to kill you or rape your wife and then kill you both. What can you do to stop that? Somebody tries to carjack and kidnap you and or your wife, what can you do to stop that? A bunch of thugs want to beat you to near death, just for the fun of it, what can you do to stop that? Because all of those crimes happen all the time. Will it happen to you? Not likely, but I'd rather be able to do something about it instead of being another dead or severely maimed victim.

Most victims will tell you "I thought it could never happen to me", that is if they are still alive.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
No, don't try to take the extreme route to discredit his argument.

Guns can be used (and in this case accidentally) to very easily kill people. It's their purpose. While other items in modern culture can be said to do similar things, there aren't any to satisfy all of those points.

There are enough stupid people in this world to be wary of (like the idiots I've seen showing off in cars in snowy/icy road conditions), why on earth would anyone want them to have the chance to affect other people with their stupidity so easily?

Yes, owning a gun (assuming that I could legally have one) might mean that I could save my own life or someone else's through a responsible use of it, but the likelihood of ever needing one (in the UK I would say that the only people with guns are farmers, farmers' mums*, organised crime and the police when authorised in very particular circumstances, and I've seen about 5 in public in my whole life) is pretty much zilch. Also, the likelihood of a scenario where it was a clear-cut case of "him or me" is also pretty much zilch, because most scenarios aren't like that. I know that there are a lot of budding "cold gun-slingers" on this forum who'll say "if someone does xyz I'll have no compunction about shooting them dead because they're scum and they had it coming", which I can only see as an additional reason why the average person shouldn't have a gun. I think if such people feel as if that sort of snap-judgement has any validity, then they should campaign for every violent offence to carry the death penalty, after all, circumstances aren't that relevant.

If I killed someone and there was a shred of doubt in my mind that the situation could have been handled differently, the guilt would eat away at me for a long time, and when someone is dead because of it, you can't make the situation right.

* - Hot Fuzz reference

I kind of tend to agree with you actually. And I own guns!

At some point I'll understand why so many Americans seem to consider their environment to be comparable to the dystopia of Mad Max so that they feel the need to arm themselves against what's out there and why the local law enforcement isn't enough to handle the job.

Fear, weakness, paranoia, a feeling that they lack the ability to defend themselves or trust in their ability to avoid trouble. Or maybe they've just seen too many Clint Eastwood movies...

Besides, Americans should never have to wait for anything. It's part of our entitlement mentality.
 
Last edited:

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
No, don't try to take the extreme route to discredit his argument.

Guns can be used (and in this case accidentally) to very easily kill people. It's their purpose. While other items in modern culture can be said to do similar things, there aren't any to satisfy all of those points.
The extreme route is all most here will understand, and even then it's not very often...Yes gun can be used to very easily kill people but their "purpose" is just to fire a projectile at high velocity, the end result of that is entirely up to the person controlling it. Other items in modern culture kill people very easily as well, and with much greater frequency (cars for instance), while you may not think it is their primary function they do so with great efficiency daily.
At some point I'll understand why so many Americans seem to consider their environment to be comparable to the dystopia of Mad Max so that they feel the need to arm themselves against what's out there and why the local law enforcement isn't enough to handle the job.

There are enough stupid people in this world to be wary of (like the idiots I've seen showing off in cars in snowy/icy road conditions), why on earth would anyone want them to have the chance to affect other people with their stupidity so easily?
No you probably won't understand, you've been raised in an entirely different environment with a different mind set, police are not there to protect you and they are incapable of doing so, they are there to clean up after the fact and find the person responsible if they can, in the moment you are all you can count on to protect yourself and those you love. Your world is entirely different than ours, we have a much larger criminal element ready to kill for any reason, or none at all...
Your example of stupid people again shows how dangerous vehicles are, much more so than guns by far, yet you still don;t think there's any fair comparison?
Yes, owning a gun (assuming that I could legally have one) might mean that I could save my own life or someone else's through a responsible use of it, but the likelihood of ever needing one (in the UK I would say that the only people with guns are farmers, farmers' mums*, organised crime and the police when authorised in very particular circumstances, and I've seen about 5 in public in my whole life) is pretty much zilch. Also, the likelihood of a scenario where it was a clear-cut case of "him or me" is also pretty much zilch, because most scenarios aren't like that. I know that there are a lot of budding "cold gun-slingers" on this forum who'll say "if someone does xyz I'll have no compunction about shooting them dead because they're scum and they had it coming", which I can only see as an additional reason why the average person shouldn't have a gun. I think if such people feel as if that sort of snap-judgement has any validity, then they should campaign for every violent offence to carry the death penalty, after all, circumstances aren't that relevant.

If I killed someone and there was a shred of doubt in my mind that the situation could have been handled differently, the guilt would eat away at me for a long time, and when someone is dead because of it, you can't make the situation right.
Again you live in a different world of which the comparison just isn't there...our likely hood of needing one is much higher, still low but much higher, higher than needing a fire extinguisher but we still have them As for what is a "clear-cut" them or me scenario if someone is in your home uninvited while you are there it's pretty much clear-cut to me, there's nothing cold blooded about us however the person there clearly is, it's been shown many times that if someone wants to steal your stuff they come when nobody is there, if your home when they come they wanted you there for some reason and it isn't for a spot of tea...that moment is all you have to keep yourself from becoming a statistic, and justified as well. It's sad the way homeowners are treated there for protecting themselves, read this LINK...the invaders try to kill the him, he disarms them and ends up killing one with their own weapon, and he ends up in jail for 3 days, that's adding insult to injury. Yes there will be some guilt but I would rather deal with that than with the guilt of a family member (or myself) dying that I could have prevented
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,051
2,577
136
What's ironic about it?

I want to know how that guy managed to get a concealed weapons permit and somehow forgot about the riound in the chamber.
God nor Jesus can protect you from stupid in a church (or probably anywhere else).
 
Last edited:

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
The extreme route is all most here will understand, and even then it's not very often...Yes gun can be used to very easily kill people but their "purpose" is just to fire a projectile at high velocity, the end result of that is entirely up to the person controlling it. Other items in modern culture kill people very easily as well, and with much greater frequency (cars for instance), while you may not think it is their primary function they do so with great efficiency daily.

No you probably won't understand, you've been raised in an entirely different environment with a different mind set, police are not there to protect you and they are incapable of doing so, they are there to clean up after the fact and find the person responsible if they can, in the moment you are all you can count on to protect yourself and those you love. Your world is entirely different than ours, we have a much larger criminal element ready to kill for any reason, or none at all...
Your example of stupid people again shows how dangerous vehicles are, much more so than guns by far, yet you still don;t think there's any fair comparison?
Again you live in a different world of which the comparison just isn't there...our likely hood of needing one is much higher, still low but much higher, higher than needing a fire extinguisher but we still have them As for what is a "clear-cut" them or me scenario if someone is in your home uninvited while you are there it's pretty much clear-cut to me, there's nothing cold blooded about us however the person there clearly is, it's been shown many times that if someone wants to steal your stuff they come when nobody is there, if your home when they come they wanted you there for some reason and it isn't for a spot of tea...that moment is all you have to keep yourself from becoming a statistic, and justified as well. It's sad the way homeowners are treated there for protecting themselves, read this LINK...the invaders try to kill the him, he disarms them and ends up killing one with their own weapon, and he ends up in jail for 3 days, that's adding insult to injury. Yes there will be some guilt but I would rather deal with that than with the guilt of a family member (or myself) dying that I could have prevented

Have you ever needed either one? Because I haven't and I've been alive for 44 years, lived in Los Angeles during the L.A. riots, been through areas being actively looted.

Seems to me there are a lot of people out there planning for something that likely will never happen... and they're angry about it too apparently.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
No, don't try to take the extreme route to discredit his argument.

Guns can be used (and in this case accidentally) to very easily kill people. It's their purpose. While other items in modern culture can be said to do similar things, there aren't any to satisfy all of those points.

At some point I'll understand why so many Americans seem to consider their environment to be comparable to the dystopia of Mad Max so that they feel the need to arm themselves against what's out there and why the local law enforcement isn't enough to handle the job.

There are enough stupid people in this world to be wary of (like the idiots I've seen showing off in cars in snowy/icy road conditions), why on earth would anyone want them to have the chance to affect other people with their stupidity so easily?

Yes, owning a gun (assuming that I could legally have one) might mean that I could save my own life or someone else's through a responsible use of it, but the likelihood of ever needing one (in the UK I would say that the only people with guns are farmers, farmers' mums*, organised crime and the police when authorised in very particular circumstances, and I've seen about 5 in public in my whole life) is pretty much zilch. Also, the likelihood of a scenario where it was a clear-cut case of "him or me" is also pretty much zilch, because most scenarios aren't like that. I know that there are a lot of budding "cold gun-slingers" on this forum who'll say "if someone does xyz I'll have no compunction about shooting them dead because they're scum and they had it coming", which I can only see as an additional reason why the average person shouldn't have a gun. I think if such people feel as if that sort of snap-judgement has any validity, then they should campaign for every violent offence to carry the death penalty, after all, circumstances aren't that relevant.

If I killed someone and there was a shred of doubt in my mind that the situation could have been handled differently, the guilt would eat away at me for a long time, and when someone is dead because of it, you can't make the situation right.

* - Hot Fuzz reference

Corwin basically said what I was going to, so consider this response an appendix. I'd just like to add that the US has over 270,000,000 privately owned guns and counting, according to FBI estimates as of 2009. If every man, woman and child in the UK owned 6 guns, that's how many we have. And those are just the legal ones.

And if someone was, say, raping my girlfriend, yeah I'd have no real issue shooting him in the moment. I'm not saying I'd enjoy it, but it would be justified and I would sleep well within a few nights I think. In the meantime my guns have shot nothing more alive than pictures on paper in the years I've owned them, and I hope it stays that way. How does this mentality preclude me from responsible gun ownership in your mind?

And frankly I've been in 3 or 4 scenarios in my life where I was saved as much by luck as good judgment. The most demonstrable of which being I once prevented a would-be robbery by pretending I had a gun, and I once got a death glare from a confirmed gang-banger. The other cases were simply being in dangerous environments in general where crime was known to be high, and feeling the need to avoid certain people/groups I observed such that I changed my route (I was walking) multiple times. Point being: If my luck had gone sour, I would have like a gun as a fallback.

Now that's only 3 or 4 times in my life that I've felt that way, but it's occurred in low-crime neighborhoods and high-crime neighborhoods. In all likelihood I'll encounter such situations at least several more times in my life, and in said situations the police cannot and will not help me. When seconds mater, the police are minutes away at best. So I carry. Nothing serious, a small .380 pocket pistol. It's disaster insurance that carries better than my wallet, and I pay my premiums at the range to get top coverage. I've outshot cops, which isn't saying much. And I don't see why I should deny any good person the coverage I enjoy.

Finally, concealed carry laws in the US are state-based. Most states require at least a basic safety class. TMK Florida does not. Before you jump on the tool for being evil, I'd advocate better training required by the state. For ~$300 the NRA can provide advanced pistol training, for ~$130 basic training.
 
Last edited:

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
Have you ever needed either one? Because I haven't and I've been alive for 44 years, lived in Los Angeles during the L.A. riots, been through areas being actively looted.

Seems to me there are a lot of people out there planning for something that likely will never happen... and they're angry about it too apparently.
Glad you've never needed either one, I've luckily never needed either as well, but if the moment comes and I do need one I'd like to have it Why would you not plan for anything you reasonably could plan for, do you really not have a fire extenguisher? What is so wrong with being prepared? Not sure where you're going with the angry about it part but attempts at being denied the very basic right of self defense is an emotionally charged subject, on both sides
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Have you ever needed either one? Because I haven't and I've been alive for 44 years, lived in Los Angeles during the L.A. riots, been through areas being actively looted.

Seems to me there are a lot of people out there planning for something that likely will never happen... and they're angry about it too apparently.

Curious, what's your height and weight?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Glad you've never needed either one, I've luckily never needed either as well, but if the moment comes and I do need one I'd like to have it Why would you not plan for anything you reasonably could plan for, do you really not have a fire extenguisher? What is so wrong with being prepared? Not sure where you're going with the angry about it part but attempts at being denied the very basic right of self defense is an emotionally charged subject, on both sides

You can't plan for everything. I think I learned that when my son was born. No matter how much you prepare you'll still be overwhelmed.

I'm not even advocating removing guns or restricting them. I just question those who feel the need to be armed all the time. Take a good look at yourself and your reasons for wanting to carry a gun.

I own guns and I don't really want the responsibility. It has nothing to do with whether I think the cops will be there to protect me, it has to do with the likelihood of me being the victim of a crime, which is slim in my daily travels, vs the hassle and responsibility of carrying a gun.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
You can't plan for everything. I think I learned that when my son was born. No matter how much you prepare you'll still be overwhelmed.

I'm not even advocating removing guns or restricting them. I just question those who feel the need to be armed all the time. Take a good look at yourself and your reasons for wanting to carry a gun.

I own guns and I don't really want the responsibility. It has nothing to do with whether I think the cops will be there to protect me, it has to do with the likelihood of me being the victim of a crime, which is slim in my daily travels, vs the hassle and responsibility of carrying a gun.
I have 2 sons myself and am well aware you can't plan for everything That said you plan for what you can...you said you don't want the responsibility, that's just fine with me and 100% your choice, I do want that responsibility and take it incredibly seriously as do many others, maybe one day if that slim chance happens to you in a public setting you'll be fortunate enough to have someone near who also felt compelled to take that responsibility and perhaps saves your life or that of your family...probably not but you never know, the chance of an accident like this are (likely) lower than having a crime happen to you...I'm glad you're not one calling for removing them completely, but why question someone who wants to be responsible and carry when possible?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
I have 2 sons myself and am well aware you can't plan for everything That said you plan for what you can...you said you don't want the responsibility, that's just fine with me and 100% your choice, I do want that responsibility and take it incredibly seriously as do many others, maybe one day if that slim chance happens to you in a public setting you'll be fortunate enough to have someone near who also felt compelled to take that responsibility and perhaps saves your life or that of your family...probably not but you never know, the chance of an accident like this are (likely) lower than having a crime happen to you...I'm glad you're not one calling for removing them completely, but why question someone who wants to be responsible and carry when possible?

When something like this happens... man, you walked right into that one.

I think it's a valid question.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,015
10,191
136
The extreme route is all most here will understand, and even then it's not very often...Yes gun can be used to very easily kill people but their "purpose" is just to fire a projectile at high velocity, the end result of that is entirely up to the person controlling it. Other items in modern culture kill people very easily as well, and with much greater frequency (cars for instance), while you may not think it is their primary function they do so with great efficiency daily.

I think you have to admit that this is a pretty disingenuous argument. Cars are not built to kill people, their primary purpose is transport. Manufacturers build cars partly with the view of keeping the occupant safe but also to reduce the number of accidents.

This cannot be said about firearms. Just one example straight off the bat: Armour-piercing rounds. There's probably another hundred examples of the industry striving to produce a better killing machine.

No you probably won't understand, you've been raised in an entirely different environment with a different mind set, police are not there to protect you and they are incapable of doing so, they are there to clean up after the fact and find the person responsible if they can, in the moment you are all you can count on to protect yourself and those you love. Your world is entirely different than ours, we have a much larger criminal element ready to kill for any reason, or none at all...
Aren't they? I guess I must have misunderstood the US police force's motto "to protect and to serve". I guess it's just a silly assumption of mine that police patrol the streets to try and spot a situation that either has already broken the law or is about to so they can defuse it. I'm pretty sure that their presence on the streets is to also act as a deterrent. What you described is almost a janitor.

Re: "your world is entirely different from ours" - so how many people have you hospitalised and/or killed in self-defence? Personally, if I felt that the situation in the country I lived in was so bad that the average stupid person was better off being armed, it wouldn't be far off living in a war zone. If I couldn't do enough to try and improve the living conditions in the country, I would move to another country. I would ask why crime rates are so high that the average person ought to be armed. Stupid people like to do stupid macho things, why on earth would you want a system that allows them another way to show off how stupid they are.

I could understand Americans a bit better if the vast majority of opinion was on the side of "well, we consider them an unfortunate necessity but we're trying to improve the system so that one day we won't need them any more", but there seem to be an enormous amount of people who consider it their god-given right / penis extension, and you couldn't pry it from their cold, dead hands.

Another issue in my opinion is the difference in what would be regarded as a "clear-cut case" which kind of worries me because I wonder what erodes peoples' sensibilities on this front. It's one thing to shoot someone who invades your home during sleeping hours (gun laws aside, I think this is acceptable). The 'pharmacist shoots dead' thread on this forum makes me think that a lot of people believe in revenge rather than self-defence.

Here's an old case in the UK that I think is very borderline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29
It caused a huge amount of controversy in the UK, public opinion was divided. On one hand, two people broke into someone's home to steal stuff, and even though they were fleeing when they were shot, and to a certain extent I believe that someone who tries to burgle someone's home deserves what's coming to them, but on the other hand, neither burglar was armed, they weren't threatening the life of anyone, and they were fleeing. A shotgun is not an ideal weapon to incapacitate a person without threatening that person's life. The farmer shot them out of revenge rather than self-defence. However, I think that too great a percentage of Americans would class this as "clear cut", no charges should have been pressed against the farmer and well done to him.

And if someone was, say, raping my girlfriend, yeah I'd have no real issue shooting him in the moment. I'm not saying I'd enjoy it, but it would be justified and I would sleep well within a few nights I think. In the meantime my guns have shot nothing more alive than pictures on paper in the years I've owned them, and I hope it stays that way. How does this mentality preclude me from responsible gun ownership in your mind?

The law can't work by only allowing "the good/sensible guys" guns. Even if someone is somehow deemed to be good/sensible, it doesn't mean that they will be good/sensible in every circumstance.

And frankly I've been in 3 or 4 scenarios in my life where I was saved as much by luck as good judgment. The most demonstrable of which being I once prevented a would-be robbery by pretending I had a gun, and I once got a death glare from a confirmed gang-banger. The other cases were simply being in dangerous environments in general where crime was known to be high, and feeling the need to avoid certain people/groups I observed such that I changed my route (I was walking) multiple times. Point being: If my luck had gone sour, I would have like a gun as a fallback.
Just a quick point here, there are some very dodgy areas in the UK too (some parts of south / east London from personal experience, other cities too).

In a society where guns are commonplace, if your luck had gone sour, then chances are that your assailants would have guns as well, you would be outnumbered by people who are much more likely to be experienced (and therefore the temperament) to kill you, as well as spotting the signs that you're about to pull a gun. I would prefer to live somewhere where they're a lot less likely to have a gun than in your scenario.
 
Last edited:

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
The law can't work by only allowing "the good/sensible guys" guns. Even if someone is somehow deemed to be good/sensible, it doesn't mean that they will be good/sensible in every circumstance.

Just a quick point here, there are some very dodgy areas in the UK too (some parts of south / east London from personal experience, other cities too).

In a society where guns are commonplace, if your luck had gone sour, then chances are that your assailants would have guns as well, you would be outnumbered by people who are much more likely to be experienced (and therefore the temperament) to kill you, as well as spotting the signs that you're about to pull a gun. I would prefer to live somewhere where they're a lot less likely to have a gun than in your scenario.

Actually it apparently is. If you reference my stats from the state of Texas earlier, only ~100 out of hundreds of thousands of concealed carry holders (per year, so probably millions total) have been convicted of any crime. But what you say is true. We also license people to drive, doesn't stop idiot drivers.

Criminals are looking for an easy score. Most are not willing to risk their lives for a simple robbery. If you make it clear that you are not an easy target, they will most likely leave you alone. Especially if you make it clear that you're willing and able to kill them. When averting said robbery, all it took was a look in the eye as I was walking and a very noticeable placing of my hand in my pocket. They slammed on the brakes (walking, had been rapidly closing the gap on me from behind after slowing down and letting me pass) and dropped back. This was not in a "dodgy" area, it was walking back from the University library at 2 AM, something I've done hundreds of times without incident along that same, well-lit route. Granted I can't legally have a gun on University property, but they didn't know that.

Bottom line, unless you're the specific target of a mafia or gang for whatever reason, it's been scientifically proven that a gun is an effective deterrent to most. Especially telling was a 60 minutes poll showing that criminals are more afraid of armed homeowners than the cops

Edit: I'd also like to add that guns are not that commonplace. The vast majority of people I know don't own one, about half have never seen one in real life. About 40% of households have one in them, but those are disproportionally concentrated by region.
 
Last edited:

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
5'11" about 185... ideally. A little more than that in reality.

Working on dropping a few lbs at the moment.

Ah, I was about to suggest (if you were really tall/big) that that was the reason for your good luck, but I'm basically the same (5'11" 173) and I've been in situations that you've apparently avoided, and TMK I've never done anything to attract them. Maybe I just road trip more? Or maybe it is luck. *shrug*
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,015
10,191
136
Actually it apparently is. If you reference my stats from the state of Texas earlier, only ~100 out of hundreds of thousands of concealed carry holders (per year, so probably millions total) have been convicted of any crime. But what you say is true. We also license people to drive, doesn't stop idiot drivers.

What about people who have a gun at home committing a crime, or stolen/unlicensed firearm-related crime? Is Texas a representative sample of the US?

Criminals are looking for an easy score. Most are not willing to risk their lives for a simple robbery. If you make it clear that you are not an easy target, they will most likely leave you alone. Especially if you make it clear that you're willing and able to kill them.
Ah, so this would be the reason why the US has one of the lowest percentage of population in prison, or one of the lowest gun-crime rates in the world? I suppose they're mostly in unrelated crimes?

Bottom line, unless you're the specific target of a mafia or gang for whatever reason, it's been scientifically proven that a gun is an effective deterrent to most. Especially telling was a 60 minutes poll showing that criminals are more afraid of armed homeowners than the cops

Edit: I'd also like to add that guns are not that commonplace. The vast majority of people I know don't own one, about half have never seen one in real life. About 40% of households have one in them, but those are disproportionally concentrated by region.
Well, I think you've either got to decide whether "your world is so different from mine that I can't possibly understand why you guys need guns" or "there's hardly any violent crime because everyone is packing" or "most people don't have guns".

If the US could be a poster-boy for "guns are an effective deterrent against crime", don't you think a lot of countries would follow suit? Huge amounts of taxpayer money could be saved because prison populations would drop sharply. Hypothetically I think there would still be considerable savings even if the government paid for the firearms that people wanted!
 
Last edited:

hiromizu

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
3,405
1
0
Is it that hard a concept to understand that the probability of greater accidental harm to yourself and others is far greater with a gun than say a knife? Also the amount of damage inflicted to your intended victim with a gun is pretty unnecessary by any standards.

Silly scenario really..if your girlfriend is being raped I think it's kind of a tough thing to try to aim a gun at the guy as there's a huge risk of shooting her instead regardless of how well trained you are at the range. Ok so what if you've successfully shot him then? Will the law be on your side? How will your appearance of a gun toting hero affect your career in the future? I'm not saying you should be calling the cops and wait for their arrival as the rapist finishes his deeds but I think there are far more intelligent ways to deal with crime.

Despite silly things I've said in the past as a joke, I am by no means anti-gun as I find great joy in going to the range and shooting up targets with 50 caliber hand cannons and rifles. I think it's a fascinating topic to discuss and that there's a greater good in understanding each others perspectives and learning from it.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
The numbers do not lie. Most of the time a gun used for protection will more often than not hurt someone who is not a criminal. At no point in time should he have removed that weapon, unless he intended on using it or at a range or something.

Shut up. My shotgun saved my life.
Diaf. Your numbers are made up as well.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |