some insights into some of the current problems in the academic field of science

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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Scientific American has written an article on how much of the science community has improper thinking, attitudes, or behavior on how they view philosophy and other academic subjects. Keep in mind that Scientific American is a science publication and the word science is in fact in the name. This is not attacking science but bad logic and egotism in individuals or communities of individuals. And there is a lot that can be said for any individual or group including philosophy but the key point is that scientists are not any more above humanity than everyone else.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/



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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
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Interesting article. Kind of confused about your comments on it though.

They all may be using a form/branch of Philosophy in their work. However, they may simply not realize it for the simple reason that Philosophy wasn't really emphasized in their education. I am no expert on Philosophy, but from what I do know it seems to have classified so many things that it would be difficult for anyone not to be using one classification of Philosophy at any given time on any given day.

These Scientists have a point though, Philosophy doesn't really contribute much any more. Certainly not as much as it did before Science as we know it was formulated and began to become commonplace.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
These Scientists have a point though, Philosophy doesn't really contribute much any more.

Not true. Furthermore even if philosophy is not any more advanced as a academic subject than centuries ago every individual in this world is not born with all the understanding of philosophy over civilization and many never learn much if any of it at all. The individaul gaining an understanding of everything is just as important as the advancement of the academic field of philosophy.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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Interesting article. Kind of confused about your comments on it though.

Some of what I am talking about is right here.

Later that year Krauss had a friendly discussion with philosopher Julian Baggini in The Observer, an online magazine from The Guardian. Although showing great respect for science and agreeing with Krauss and most other physicists and cosmologists that there isn’t “more stuff in the universe than the stuff of physical science,” Baggini complained that Krauss seems to share “some of science’s imperialist ambitions.” Baggini voices the common opinion that “there are some issues of human existence that just aren’t scientific. I cannot see how mere facts could ever settle the issue of what is morally right or wrong, for example.”

Krauss does not see it quite that way. Rather he distinguishes between “questions that are answerable and those that are not,” and the answerable ones mostly fall into the “domain of empirical knowledge, aka science.” As for moral questions, Krauss claims that they only be answered by “reason...based on empirical evidence.” Baggini cannot see how any “factual discovery could ever settle a question of right and wrong.”
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
Not true. Furthermore even if philosophy is not any more advanced as a academic subject than centuries ago every individual in this world is not born with all the understanding of philosophy over civilization and many never learn much if any of it at all. The individaul gaining an understanding of everything is just as important as the advancement of the academic field of philosophy.

It is not possible for anyone to gain an understanding of Everything.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
Some of what I am talking about is right here.

That doesn't really clear anything up. These Scientists(persons) are not claiming superiority, they are pointing out the superiority of Science(process). They could be mistaken, I suppose, but if they are Philosophy hasn't been able to contribute the way Science has. So either Philosophy needs some kind of breakthrough or it needs to accept whatever place is left in this world for it to inhabit.

Much of this article just seemed to be trying to add relevance to Philosophy by merely claiming Science as using Philosophy. Kind of like how Theist Apologists claim the existence of Love or Morals as evidence of their theistic entity.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's value in Philosophy. However, if the field of Philosophy thinks it is as important as Physics and other fields of Science, it is delusional.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
That doesn't really clear anything up. These Scientists(persons) are not claiming superiority, they are pointing out the superiority of Science(process). They could be mistaken, I suppose, but if they are Philosophy hasn't been able to contribute the way Science has. So either Philosophy needs some kind of breakthrough or it needs to accept whatever place is left in this world for it to inhabit.

Much of this article just seemed to be trying to add relevance to Philosophy by merely claiming Science as using Philosophy. Kind of like how Theist Apologists claim the existence of Love or Morals as evidence of their theistic entity.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's value in Philosophy. However, if the field of Philosophy thinks it is as important as Physics and other fields of Science, it is delusional.

What is this race you seem to perceive as existing?
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Can someone please send the OP a reminder every morning to take his meds?



This post was already here when the move from P&N was made and so is allowed.
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
and what exactly does this have to do with politics or news?





This is the last post made before moving the thread from P&N.
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Is drivel about philosophy and other useless stuff considered news or politics these days?
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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and what exactly does this have to do with politics or news?

And I am pointing out the obvious in bold for you.

Politics (from Greek: πολιτικός politikos, definition "of, for, or relating to citizens") is the practice and theory of influencing other people. More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance — organized control over a human community, particularly a state. Furthermore, politics is the study or practice of the distribution of power and resources within a given community (a usually hierarchically organized population) as well as the interrelationship(s) between communities.

A variety of methods are employed in politics, which include promoting or forcing one's own political views among people, negotiation with other political subjects, making laws, and exercising force, including warfare against adversaries. Politics is exercised on a wide range of social levels, from clans and tribes of traditional societies, through modern local governments, companies and institutions up to sovereign states, to the international level.

It is very often said that politics is about power. A political system is a framework which defines acceptable political methods within a given society. History of political thought can be traced back to early antiquity, with seminal works such as Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Politics and the works of Confucius.

Formal Politics refers to the operation of a constitutional system of government and publicly defined institutions and procedures. Political parties,public policy or discussions about war and foreign affairs would fall under the category of Formal Politics.[1] Many people view formal politics as something outside of themselves, but that can still affect their daily lives..

Informal Politics is understood as forming alliances, exercising power and protecting and advancing particular ideas or goals. Generally, anything affecting ones daily life.The way an office or household are managed, or how one person or a group exercise influence over another. Informal Politics is typically understood as everyday politics, hence the idea that "politics is everywhere".
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I am merely responding to this idea that Scientists/Science feels superior and needs brought down a notch.

Basically establishing some type of hierarchy between academic subjects is pointless and going to cause more problems than any benefits that are created from anything.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
Basically establishing some type of hierarchy between academic subjects is pointless and going to cause more problems than any benefits that are created from anything.

I have to disagree. Some things simply are more beneficial than others. Philosophy once was very essential, but those days are gone and now its' place is of lower importance.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I have to disagree. Some things simply are more beneficial than others. Philosophy once was very essential, but those days are gone and now its' place is of lower importance.

What do you think about this intellectual discussion? Are you able to understand what they are talking about here? Do you have any problems with the discussion not being right or wrong, black or white, or other such absolutism instead of relativism? Furthermore do you think these discussion are not as important to humanity as hard physical science?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?324708-1/sir-david-cannadine-undivided-past
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,523
27,823
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There are problems in modern science. They have nothing to do with a lack of respect for philosophy. The main problem is clutter. The publish or perish model has led to a generation of half-assed, incremental papers reporting partially completed research that make it difficult for other researchers to find reliable, well documented information. Instead of waiting until a project has useful results, which might take a few years, researchers are pressured to publish before they really have anything to say. It's a waste of everybody's time.

The second problem is that the use of citation indices as a measure of research impact has led to a ridiculous over-use of citations. Researchers cite their own past papers and those of folks in their research groups to bump up the citation ranking. Couple that with the publication of immature research results and we have a situation where it is getting harder and harder to find meaningful results. One can no longer follow a reasonable trail of citations to find that one paper that might be of value.

This concludes my bitch about science for today.
 
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