Some "love" for Intel, the new budget king? (G4560 madness!!)

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm. I still vote for the G4560. For science! Plus, I'm cheap... when it comes to hardware.

Look for Chrome benchmarks, between a dual-core with HT, and a quad-core? Are there any? (Do sites even benchmark Chrome?)

 

[escrow4]

According to Tom's the G4560 consumes 23w under stress testing, it could easily run fanless for daily usage.

I'll have to replace the E8400 + Radeon 6450 + half dead G31 motherboard my parents are using for web browsing, it's only got one out of two memory slots working and it's maxed out at 2GB DDR2. Feeling a bit cramped with a few Chrome tabs open.

G4560 + some B250 motherboard so it'll boot out of the box and a 4GB DDR4 stick, doesn't really matter what speed, if 3D performance is needed for the iGPU I'll add another stick down the road and enable dual channel. Lots of extra speed, lots of power savings, less heat... it's perfect for them.

Last year I built some Haswell Celeron G1820 cheap rigs for some people, I was impressed with the performance of that heavily cut down chip... the G4560 sure impresses for what it costs.

I've used 2 Celerons and they both struggled in terms of puff. A few Chrome tabs and some porn in the background and voila! 100% CPU usage spikes way too often. The 4560 basically obsoletes the G3900. You get more cache, a fat upswing in MHz and some fake hyperthreaded cores for an extra $20 or so.

 

[.vodka]

Agreed, the G4560 is a no brainer over any 2C2T Celeron or Pentium.

The Haswell Celeron would hiccup here and there, but the performance was more than acceptable... but that was last year and we now have the G4560 3.5GHz SKL/KBL is no slouch for the tasks it's intended to do in my case (email, facebook, some youtube... so stressful a phone can do it). Plus the HT itself in SKL is much improved over Haswell's or Sandy's, so those extra two threads pack quite a punch

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think that the G4560 should be noticeably faster in Chrome (compared to G3900).

CPU-Z benchmark for a G3900 is: ST 1400, MT 2800.
For a G4600: ST 1770, MT 3500.

That said, I put a G3900 into one of my new B150 boards to flash it, and have been browsing this forum, and it's fine at 4K30, both on the HD610 iGPU, as well as an R7 250X 2GB DDR3 dGPU.

The G4600 is probably faster, but in Firefox, it's not all that noticeable. Probably because the G4600 is hooked up to a slower SSd. (SX8000)

Edit: I'm off somewhere. G4560's MT score is nearly 4000, not 3500. And G4600 is faster, so it's probably over 4000.

 

[cbn]

So the build is priced out and the G4560 it is.

EDIT: By gutting some parts and cheapening on others the total shaved off is around $300 compared to a full fat sexy i5 build.

What did you come up with?

(I am very interested to hear what SSD you will be using)

 

[VirtualLarry]

G4560 Biostar B150S1 build
--------------------------

Intel G4560 Pentium dual-core w/HT CPU 3.5Ghz $65 ($60)
Biostar B150S1 HiFi micro-ATX mobo $76 ($27)
Geil 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4-2133 desktop RAM $65 ($35)
Rosewill FBM-02 micro-ATX case w/front USB2.0 $35 ($30)
ThermalTake 430W TR2-430 ATX PSU $54 ($43)
Adata SU800 Ultimate 128GB SATA6G 2.5" SSD $60 ($40)

total: $355 ($235)

Windows 10 Home $100
Parts assembly $50
Software/OS installation $50

grand total: $555 ($335)

(Price is list, price in parenthesis is actual cost.)

Add GTX 1050 ti from Newegg on ebay (EVGA SC GTX 1050 Ti mini) for $135.

That gives $690 list, $470 actual cost.

I'm sure .au is more expensive by a bit.

 

[tamz_msc]

^Haha 470$ is almost what the Ryzen 7 1700X is going to cost online here in India. We have to pay GST from March that's why. Steam prices will also be 15% more from now on.

 

[R0H1T]

^Haha 470$ is almost what the Ryzen 7 1700X is going to cost online here in India. We have to pay GST from March that's why. Steam prices will also be 15% more from now on.

GST is from July, the final rates are also not out yet.

 

[tamz_msc]

GST is from July, the final rates are also not out yet.

Steam will start charging 15% from March. It will be included in the listed price, not added during checkout.

 

[R0H1T]

Steam will start charging 15% from March. It will be included in the listed price, not added during checkout.

Well they can't charge it under the name of GST since GST will be applicable from July, I think that'd be illegal.

 

[tamz_msc]

I don't see Intel releasing overclockable Pentiums and Celerons unless they do something about the chipset differentiation. Maybe they'll start afresh in the next round of CPUs.

 

[MongGrel]

Intel has been cheap for budget builds awhile now of you had bought wisely on mobos in the past.

I'll believe the Ryzen hype once I see actually released benchmarks perhaps.

 

[whm1974]

G4560 Biostar B150S1 build
--------------------------

Intel G4560 Pentium dual-core w/HT CPU 3.5Ghz $65 ($60)
Biostar B150S1 HiFi micro-ATX mobo $76 ($27)
Geil 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4-2133 desktop RAM $65 ($35)
Rosewill FBM-02 micro-ATX case w/front USB2.0 $35 ($30)
ThermalTake 430W TR2-430 ATX PSU $54 ($43)
Adata SU800 Ultimate 128GB SATA6G 2.5" SSD $60 ($40)

total: $355 ($235)

Windows 10 Home $100
Parts assembly $50
Software/OS installation $50

grand total: $555 ($335)

(Price is list, price in parenthesis is actual cost.)

Add GTX 1050 ti from Newegg on ebay (EVGA SC GTX 1050 Ti mini) for $135.

That gives $690 list, $470 actual cost.

I'm sure .au is more expensive by a bit.

I'll put in more storage then that Adata 128GB SSD for a gaming rig. At least add a 1TB HDD, otherwise your clients will not get very far.

 

[Valantar]

I saw a post I think' of 7th gen Athlon coming up. Most likely Bristol Ridge.

AMD still needs an APU CPU for AM4 until the Ryzen inspired APU kicks in the 2nd half of this year.

AM4 APUs are already out in OEM channels, and have been for quite some time. Releasing them now, possibly less than 6 months before Raven ridge, though, makes no sense. They'd be a difficult sell already (same performance as Carrizo, just a newer platform), and would leave retailers with a lot of unsellable stock in a very short time. One would think AMD has enough experience with taking losses from old retail stock to not shoot themselves in the foot like that.

 

[A///]

Weren't the G series CPUs meant mainly for ultra budget builds but also incredibly perfect for a small mATX build in a cube or whatever for HTPC needs?

 

[KTE]

I think that, in reality, the dual-core SKL / KBL CPUs hardly get over 35W, but they are rated at those TDP classes because of the cooling required.

Probably related to the reason, that 65W Ryzen CPUs require a 95W cooler. Some speculate that the smaller die area, makes removing the heat more difficult, and that's why the TDP class upgrade.

It could be just binning, too. The G4560 may take only 35W in 90% of the CPUs, but if Intel made that SKU have a 35W TDP, then 10% of the bin wouldn't meet specs. Same reason that AMD overvolts their Polaris GPU chips.

So what's a solid mATX 1151 board from your experience when using an i3/Pentium?

Did you try any Asrock boards?

1. Yes, low-end Intels have been far below TDP wattage since Conroe. Many times drawing power at half the watt rating.

2. Ryzen is requiring a high current, as I speculated. Which means, high current densities per mm and that results in very high local hotspots. That limits heat and clocks.

 

[Crono]

I'll pick up a Kaby Lake G4XXX one of these days, it would make a good HTPC CPU in a mini-ITX case, paired with a RX 460 I have on hand.

 

[escrow4]

What did you come up with?

(I am very interested to hear what SSD you will be using)

So far:

Intel G4560 OR Intel 7600 non K
Gigabyte H270N-WIFI
Corsair 16GB 2400MHz kit (CMK16GX4M2A2400C14 | 8GBx2)
Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB
Coolermaster Elite 110
SeaSonic G-450w
Win 10 Home Retail

Comes to around $1300 AUD with an i5, closer to $1K with the Pentium. I still can't shake off an i5 though. Need something that will last. The G4560 gets around 5000 marks, the fastest i5 approaches 9000. Sure its only an indicator, but everything else is tip-top and I have doubts as to the puff level of a Pentium.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@VirtualLarry

Yeah the RAM spikes are a pain :/ Company policy is 4 threads (not necessarily cores...), 8GB RAM, and 240GB-class SSD minimum, though. We try to future-proof our customers as much as we possibly can; exceptions to that rule can be made if the customer asks and boss approves, but generally we want to make sure whatever we build has enough grunt to handle Windows AND antivirus AND a bunch of tabs.

The A8-7600 has been my go to, bread and butter chip for a couple of years now for lower-end builds. There is a distinct G4560/46xx shortage recently so this may continue for a bit, but I do think the new Pentium has taken the A8's spot.

Interesting that you mention Linux, too; I've had some very happy customers on KDE Plasma 5 (if they wanted a Windows 7 experience) and XFCE/Compiz/Docky/TopMenu if they like the Mac look Saves them a bundle on OS licensing too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There is a distinct G4560/46xx shortage recently

Yeah, I noticed that, when there were no major online retailers with stock of the G4560. The G4600 was in stock though, for like $90.

Interesting that you use 240GB SSDs minimum. Is that because cost/GB is cheaper once you step up to the 240GB class, or that the drives are effectively twice as fast, or just because you expect your users to use more space than would fit on a 120GB in a few years time? Or all of the above?

I started my friend out with a 30GB SSD for Win7 64-bit some years ago, as I was using the same drive myself. Eventually, he was using up something like 28GB worth, and streaming videos, was causing "pausing" for a few seconds. So I replaced it with a 120GB SSD (M500, middle-of-the-road performance-wise, but dependable) a few years ago. So, by now, the 120GB has probably 2+, maybe 3-4 years worth of usage, and I don't think he's using more than 60-75% of the drive. (I did set him up with a 500GB 7200RPM HDD too.)

So, using my friend as a yardstick, I still feel comfortable (given current prices), using a 120GB SSD in a "browser box" for something. But a "gaming box", I will put in a 240GB, and a HDD (optional size up to customer).

I'll admit that the sweet spot for price/GB is around the 240GB mark, or larger. 120GB is no longer efficient in that category, but it's still cheaper in absolute terms.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So what's a solid mATX 1151 board from your experience when using an i3/Pentium?

For Skylake? I haven't used a "bad" one yet. The CPUs are such low TDP, I haven't had any issues with them at all.

My first 1151 mobo was an Asus H110M-A. Worked fine, don't use it extensively.
Then I bought two ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX boards, to BCLK OC a pair of G4400 CPUs. One of the CPUs hit 4.45Ghz for 24/7 usage, the other hit 4.125Ghz, with occasional glitches. Later, I updated the UEFI on them from 3.00 to 7.30, and upgraded them to G4560 CPUs. However, I couldn't BCLK OC the KBL CPUs.

I also bought an ASRock H110 ITX board, a couple of DeskMini units, and some ASRock B150/Hyper boards. One of which, I took an i5-6400 to 4.45Ghz as well.

My most recent experiment, is buying several Biostar B150 board, flashing them, and if all goes well, I'll be testing some more G4560 CPUs in them soon.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Last year I built some Haswell Celeron G1820 cheap rigs for some people, I was impressed with the performance of that heavily cut down chip... the G4560 sure impresses for what it costs.

Intel's CPUs are SO powerful, that even really cut-down, they're still powerhouses. I've built Haswell G1820 rigs too, and for the money, for basic needs, they run like a hot knife through butter. I mean, not quite AAA-gaming-capable, maybe, but still capable of playing older games with a suitable dGPU even. They could stand to have an iGPU that was maybe 30-50% faster, but for the money, I'm not complaining, it's quite impressive technology.

Edit: Just popped one of my new G4560 CPUs into this Biostar B150S1 D4 mobo. (Already flashed the BIOS to newest.) Works like a charm.

Interestingly, I can set the multis in BIOS, and they stick. I tried that with my Skylake Celeron G3900, and the multis would change, then change back to default when I hit ENTER. Now, they stick. But they don't apply in Windows.

Going to try to set them high enough so that the BIOS can't boot, and see what happens, whether they apply in BIOS or not.

Is there some backdoor, to multi-OC KBL CPUs that I don't know about, LOL?

At the very least, I think that you can OC "K" CPUs on this non-Z B150 Biostar board, that's pretty cool, if I had a SKL / KBL "K" CPU. Maybe this is the board to get for the i3-7350K? At $27 shipped, it sure was cheap enough.

 

[sm625]

It's funny but Intel does look to be the true budget king. There is a HP Z420 on the bay for $323 shipped. It comes with a i7-3770 equivalent xeon, 16GB of RAM, and a windows license. Before the end of the year, you're going to be able to buy haswell i7 xeon workstations for $300. It's like they're just giving this stuff away.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I just pulled out one of my 1007U laptops. Compared to the N2830 laptop I had been using, this 1007U is downright snappy. Almost to the level of my G3900 Skylake Celeron. Using the IVB iGPU even, in Win7 64-bit.

Is there an equivalent laptop CPU to the G4560? Or are we stuck paying i3-7100U prices, if we don't want an Atom derivative?

 

[hojnikb]

Yep
http://ark.intel.com/products/89611
http://ark.intel.com/products/89612