Some "love" for Intel, the new budget king? (G4560 madness!!)

[Pohemi]

B & H Photo has the G4560 in stock, for anyone looking out for one...I just ordered one with an MSI PC Mate board

 

[VirtualLarry]

I took a look through both cyberpowerpc.com and ibuypower.com , two lower-cost gaming PC builders, and neither one of them seemed to offer the G4560, that I could see.

Ibuypower offered an i3-7100 in a B250 mobo, but that's about as low as they go.

Yet, YouTube is rife with videos talking up the G4560 for (budget) gaming. At least, for bang-for-buck purposes.

Edit: Thanks for the tip about B&H. I went to buy a couple more off of Antonline on ebay, and they... weren't available any more. Nor at Newegg. But B&H had them, but they were "limit one". Oh well, I'll take what I can get. I ordered one. Took a nap, came back, looked at B&H, now they're $69.99, instead of $64.xx. Looks like they're gouging slightly, since they're nearly the only legit place on the internet that has them.

Edit: OTOH, from New York City, NY, to MA, next-day shipping, is pretty impressive, for what is essentially list ARK price. Kudos to B&H. (Antonline takes 3-4 days to get here.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Intel-P...194706?hash=item25d0c27492:g:La0AAOSwXYtYuGHm

mp3superstore (Ewiz/SuperBiiz) has them for $61.49.

 

[rbk123]

I'd pull the trigger if the B150's would continue to be $27, but that's expired for now at least.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, I'm ever-scouring the interwebs for cheap mobo "opportunities" (for a build). Hard to find really good deals.

Last good mobo deal was a bunch of supposedly-new A55M ECS FM1 (yeah, FM1, LOL) micro-ATX boards, that waltchan clued me in on. Along with some new (minus heatsink) FM1 dual-core CPUs for between $8 and $15 USD. Bought like ten sets of them, sheer overkill, LOL. Still stuck with a bunch of them, thinking of donating the parts to a local HS tech program to mess around with or something.

Or maybe I'll get around to building them, and donating the PCs. Did that with a couple of them already. They really don't make half-bad browsing machines, either with Linux Mint, or Windows 10. (Windows 10 install finds all drivers automagically; mobo is "certified" for Win8/8.1.) Not quite as speedy in the CPU dept. as a Haswell G1820 Celeron, but still decent, especially if you overclock them 5-10%. Thing is, those K10.5 cores, were actually not half bad, and they have higher IPC than Bulldozer / Piledriver APUs, and higher clocks than AM1 APUs. So, they're kind of in the middle, performance-wise, and unfortunately, their iGPU is VLIW4, so no longer supported by current drivers, but Win10 automagically finds working ones.

I could sink to scrounging at a local Microcenter, they always have a stack of returned "open box" mobos sitting around, but ... who really wants to take a chance on those? Probably some bargains to be had, if you are adventurous , but I try to stick to "new" boards, or at the worst, "mfg refurbished", for customer builds, even for "donation builds".

There is this deal, an Asus H110-chipset micro-ATX board, with an M.2 socket, for $44.99 + $1.99 ship:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...telMotherboards-_-13132871-S10A2B&ignorebbr=1

Seems like the best deal on a "new" 1151 board at the moment.

 

[rbk123]

Saw that earlier. I'm just going to wait and see if another $25+ deal comes along. If not, I'll go a different deal; I'm in no hurry.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That reminds me, I pulled another Rosewill micro-ATX case out of my storage unit, and I received my fifth G4560 CPU, this time from B&H. I guess time to get building!

Edit: OK, done.

I put 2x4GB DDR4-2133 into it, yet, it has a Kaby Lake G4560. I wonder how badly the lack of RAM speed is going to affect the iGPU for desktop tasks. Hopefully, not much.

 

[cbn]

I put 2x4GB DDR4-2133 into it, yet, it has a Kaby Lake G4560. I wonder how badly the lack of RAM speed is going to affect the iGPU for desktop tasks. Hopefully, not much.

Dual channel DDR4-2133 for a 12 EU iGPU? That should be more than enough bandwidth.

P.S. In the past, I have estimated Skylake GT2 roughly equal to 256 GCN 1.0 stream processors @ 720/780 MHz based on these results. GT1 is half that.

 

[cbn]

Virtual Larry,

Have you tried at single DDR4 2133 stick with G4560? 1080p and 4K?

 

[VirtualLarry]

No, I haven't. Hadn't meant to test that, really. I noticed something strange, scrolling Newegg's email blast page, in Waterfox 51.0.1 on Win10 64-bit, full-screened in 4K30. The new portion of the screen to be drawn, was drawn overlapping the portion that was being scrolled off. Like some sort of buffer wrap-around, or like in old-school NES games, where they were scrolling and changing the background tiles, and you could see it happening, because they didn't set the scroll/display region boundaries correctly.

 

[cbn]

No, I haven't. Hadn't meant to test that, really. I noticed something strange, scrolling Newegg's email blast page, in Waterfox 51.0.1 on Win10 64-bit, full-screened in 4K30. The new portion of the screen to be drawn, was drawn overlapping the portion that was being scrolled off. Like some sort of buffer wrap-around, or like in old-school NES games, where they were scrolling and changing the background tiles, and you could see it happening, because they didn't set the scroll/display region boundaries correctly.

Interesting.

Could some of that effect you are describing be due to not having enough iGPU?

Maybe a processor with GT2 would work better for 4K?

 

[Shivansps]

Since you have those, did you tried to switch to IDE mode and BCLK overclock it?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't think that either my DeskMini (H110 chipset) mini-STX mobo, nor my Biostar B150S1 board, allow adjusting the BCLK, at all.

 

[Shivansps]

What happened to the Z170 Pro4?

 

[VirtualLarry]

The A8-7600 has been my go to, bread and butter chip for a couple of years now for lower-end builds. There is a distinct G4560/46xx shortage recently so this may continue for a bit, but I do think the new Pentium has taken the A8's spot.

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...re-3-1ghz-fm2-apu-64-99-fs-ap-newegg.2501241/

The A8-7600 is $64.99 AP FS @ Newegg right now, maybe time to squeeze in some last-minute A8 builds, while G4560 supplies are scarce?

I'm thinking of getting one next month, just to see what it "feels" like. I've been experimenting with an AM1 (Kabini) Sempron 3850 rig, I re-built into a nice little ITX case. I had to drop the overclock, and it's... a little bit slow, web browsing, but it's ... "bearable". I MUCH prefer my G4600-powered DeskMini rigs though.

I have a 60GB Hectron MLC SSD in the AM1 rig, but as far as SSDs go, it's kind of slow too. It's better, once I get the AHCI-mode stuff enabled in Windows, but overall, the rig is still kind of slow. Not horrid, but kind of like, low-end Core2 slow, only it's a quad-core, and takes very little power.

 

[escrow4]

5 Pentiums would have gotten you a locked 7600 and a decent H270 board . . . . the browsing issues are likely the CPU running out of puff. Plus recent work desktops I've seen across different jobs all have i5s (with a pretty vPro sticker) on them office wise. If Dell and HP spec out a fleet with prices, even finance can't justify dropping lower for office workhorses. Going cheap eventually means going into unusable territory.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Web browsing is evidently SERIOUS BUSINESS, and requires a quad-core.

Granted, I'm on a Foxconn NanoPC at this moment, with a, gasp, C-70 dual-core. At a whopping 1Ghz, with the rare but occasional turbo to 1.33Ghz. (Doesn't last long.)

Browsing is... slow... but not unusable. Well, if you're patient. I was wishing I was on a G4560 or better.

Worse yet, this little box is still on Win10 1511, and it had gone and downloaded the Feature Update, and was at 92% downloaded, and then the power on it went out. Not sure if it was my power strip, or it overheated.

 

[escrow4]

Web browsing is evidently SERIOUS BUSINESS, and requires a quad-core.

Granted, I'm on a Foxconn NanoPC at this moment, with a, gasp, C-70 dual-core. At a whopping 1Ghz, with the rare but occasional turbo to 1.33Ghz. (Doesn't last long.)

Browsing is... slow... but not unusable. Well, if you're patient. I was wishing I was on a G4560 or better.

Worse yet, this little box is still on Win10 1511, and it had gone and downloaded the Feature Update, and was at 92% downloaded, and then the power on it went out. Not sure if it was my power strip, or it overheated.

Compare the internet and how fat its gotten compared to 2007. You mix that with all the other crap on a desktop plus a stack of running apps on a dual core, even hyperthreaded, eh. An extra $220 for the life of the PC is irrelevant. A PC that you likely use every day to boot.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Web browsing is evidently SERIOUS BUSINESS, and requires a quad-core.

This is one of those times where you're being sarcastic, but you're actually more correct than not, completely unironically, and don't realize it. Happens to me too.

Web browsing with rich media is actually pretty compute heavy, in bursts, and definitely works better on a "big-core system" with multithreading.

A quad core is less necessary, but definitely works better if you're one of those infinite-tabs-in-infinite-combinations people.

 

[whm1974]

Compare the internet and how fat its gotten compared to 2007. You mix that with all the other crap on a desktop plus a stack of running apps on a dual core, even hyperthreaded, eh. An extra $220 for the life of the PC is irrelevant. A PC that you likely use every day to boot.

I agree, which is why I pick the Haswell i5 when I built my system back in 2013.

 

[hansolo69]

Web browsing is evidently SERIOUS BUSINESS, and requires a quad-core.

Granted, I'm on a Foxconn NanoPC at this moment, with a, gasp, C-70 dual-core. At a whopping 1Ghz, with the rare but occasional turbo to 1.33Ghz. (Doesn't last long.)

Browsing is... slow... but not unusable. Well, if you're patient. I was wishing I was on a G4560 or better.

Worse yet, this little box is still on Win10 1511, and it had gone and downloaded the Feature Update, and was at 92% downloaded, and then the power on it went out. Not sure if it was my power strip, or it overheated.

To do serious business with web browsing you need Mozilla+Noscript, in which you control what scripts run.
Many sites are full of crap ads, with multiple popups or videos running. Even with a high-end CPU I don't need that crap.
Webdesigners should look at KISS principle.
With that software a G4560 is good enough for browsing.

 

[.vodka]

So I got the G4560 rig up and running a few days ago. Motherboard is a Gigabyte B250M-DS3H, comes in handy because of the VGA output for an old 22" 1680x1050 monitor that's still in use; for the memory I'm using 2x4GB DDR4-2400 16-16-16-38 2T Crucial Ballistix LT white. Cheapest I could find. I still have two other memory slots if I ever need more memory in this rig, and I wanted to use dual channel out of the gate as to make the most out of the iGPU. Its use is web browsing and media consumption. Nothing a phone couldn't do.


Here's the entire AIDA64 test suite
Queen
PhotoWorxx
Zlib
AES
Hash
VP8
Julia
Mandel
SinJulia
FP32 RT
FP64 RT
GPGPU
Cachemem


Using Chrome 57 and W10 14393.969
Kraken 1.1: 949.3ms
Octane 2.0: 34865
Sunspider 1.0.2: 168.9ms


I'm happy with this motherboard, it supports Speedshift out of the box without any sorcery required, and cstates are also working just fine. Power meter while running those tests peaked at 15w for the CPU package, while AIDA64's stress test (CPU, FPU, memory, GPU) peaked at 25w. Idle power according to the CPU's meter is near zero, and someone with a killawatt and similar hardware reports 20w at the wall, and 45w under load. Now I don't know if this guy had the c-states enabled when measuring idle power (out of they box they are disabled or only enabled up to C1E). Nonetheless, pretty amazing performance and power consumption for a $64 chip.


To be honest, it sometimes feels snappier than my 4.5GHz 2500k + 4x4GB DDR3-1866 10-11-10-30 1T + R9 290, and that's with an SSD. The G4560 is currently running on a 500GB Samsung Spinpoint F1, good old hard drive... This motherboard's got a M.2 slot, I might get something to fit in there in the future...


It has replaced a E8400, a half dead G31 motherboard with a single memory slot working, and 2GB DDR2-800 of memory. My parents couldn't be happier!

 

[VirtualLarry]

To be honest, it sometimes feels snappier than my 4.5GHz 2500k + 4x4GB DDR3-1866 10-11-10-30 1T + R9 290, and that's with an SSD. The G4560 is currently running on a 500GB Samsung Spinpoint F1, good old hard drive... This motherboard's got a M.2 slot, I might get something to fit in there in the future...

Yeah, Skylake, and now Kaby Lake, especially with the HT, is a very "snappy" architecture. Although I'm amazed that anything with a HDD installed would be "snappy".

If you've got an M.2 slot, then yes, consider getting a PCI-E M.2 SSD, especially if you're running Windows 10 (or a really new kernel of Linux). The BPX brand is among the cheapest, while still having good performance.

The Adata SX8000 and Intel 600p are kind of the low-water-mark for PCI-E M.2. The Samsung 950 / 960 is probably the high-water mark, thus far, as far as performance benchmarks go. But they're pricey.

 

[.vodka]

Yeah, Skylake, and now Kaby Lake, especially with the HT, is a very "snappy" architecture. Although I'm amazed that anything with a HDD installed would be "snappy".

That's why I went for 8GB of RAM for a web browsing rig. W10 is actually quite good at managing RAM, once it caches everything in RAM there's no need to touch the hard drive at all.

That's when things get snappy. It's snappier than my 2500k with all 16GB of stuff cached in RAM. Web browsing feels faster. Navigating W10 itself feels faster.

I don't know man, it's strange. It's six years newer tech after all. I suspect Speedshift is at work here.

Sadly, this motherboard ships with the feature disabled by default. What the hell Gigabyte?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The BPX brand is among the cheapest, while still having good performance.

My BPX runs pretty cool and is noticeably faster than my old MX200 SATA SSD. Hottest it has run in my rig is around 65C running sequential read benchmarks.