some people are just stupid or REALLY bad with money

Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
do people not do the math before they decide to purchase property?
the real estate agent should share some of the blame for being a selfish, greedy snake for preying on the uninformed. but 99.9% of the blame falls on the buyer.

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (CNNMoney.com) -- Only weeks after moving into their first home in 2006, Margarita Rios celebrated Christmas with her two daughters and their families. They finally had the room to do it right, with decorations outside the Valley Stream, N.Y., house and a nice tree surrounded by presents inside. "It was very beautiful," said Rios, who had saved for a decade to unite her children and grandchildren under one roof. "It was a dream come true."

Christmas 2008, however, is shaping up to be a nightmare. No decorations. No tree. No house. In February, faced with an unexpected jump in her monthly mortgage bill, Rios stopped making payments and abandoned the home, shattering her life and scattering her family. She and her new husband moved into a tiny rental apartment in Brooklyn and are trying to negotiate with the bank to sell the house without foreclosing. One daughter relocated to Queens, while the other is heading back to Mexico with her three children to escape New York's high cost of living.

Rios is among the growing ranks of Americans trying to put their lives back together after losing their homes. About three million people were delinquent on their loans and one million homes were in foreclosure as of March 31, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. No one keeps track of what happens to people after they give up their homes, but their options generally are limited. Some move in with friends or family, while others end up living in their cars or in homeless shelters. Those with some means, like Rios, squeeze into rental apartments. Rios knew when she bought the house she'd have to skimp to make the mortgage payments. But she felt it was worth it. "It was a sacrifice but at least we'd have a home," said Rios, who spoke through a translator and asked to be identified by her middle name. "Even though we were struggling, we were together and I was able to be with my grandkids." But counselors at the Nassau County Homeownership Center, to whom she turned for help in January, said they've seen cases like Rios' too many times in recent years: New homeowners losing their houses after getting mortgages they didn't understand and couldn't afford. "That type of loan should never have been made," said Haydee Rosario, a homeownership counselor at the center.

Rios' housing saga began in 2006 when she approached a real estate agent to see whether she could qualify for a home. Since emigrating from Mexico in 1995 with her daughters, then ages 15 and 16, she had been renting apartments in Brooklyn and Queens. After working at her brother's restaurant for a few years, she got a job at a Brooklyn factory making party goods, where she's still employed. Despite relatively meager earnings - she makes $25,000 a year at the factory - she managed to save $20,000 for a downpayment. Careful use of credit cards helped her establish a good credit history.

Ironically, it was this financial prudence that led to her downfall. Her nest egg and good credit score qualified her for an adjustable-rate loan that didn't require documentation of her income. Soon, Rios was the owner of a $489,000 four-bedroom home with a monthly mortgage payment of $4,100. She and one daughter split the two bedrooms upstairs, while her older daughter lived on the ground floor with her husband and two young children. With her daughters each paying $1,500, she could cover the remaining $1,100. The real estate agent said she could refinance within two years and lower her payments.

Instead, the opposite happened. This past January, the monthly payments jumped to nearly $4,400, overwhelming the family. She turned to the Homeownership Center, but the counselors couldn't persuade the lender to modify the terms. Though it was difficult for her to accept, Rios decided to let the home go. "We just couldn't do it," said Rios, who is in her 40s. "It was taking everything we had. It was just too much."

With the center's assistance, Rios is negotiating with her lender to do a short sale, in which she would sell the home and turn over the proceeds to the bank, which would then agree to forgive the remaining debt. But it might be tough to get the lender to go along since she now owes $503,000, including interest and late fees, and the home is only worth $372,800. If they can't agree on terms or the home doesn't sell, Rios faces being put into foreclosure.

The stress is taking its toll. She's not sleeping, suffering from headaches and having trouble eating, noting that she's already lost a dress size. She doesn't know what she'll do with all her belongings, most of which are still in the house, since they won't fit in her studio. And she fears she'll be arrested for being delinquent, even though the counselors have told her otherwise. "Not being able to pay the debt is weighing on me," she said. "And I lost all this money I worked so hard for." Most of all, however, she's devastated at the scattering of her family. She's concerned her older daughter's children will not have as good a life in Mexico as they could have in the United States. And she doesn't often see her younger daughter's new baby because Rios has to work Saturdays and take care of household matters on Sundays. When they were all living together, having the grandchildren around made her forget about her problems, she said. Still, despite all her troubles, Rios has not given up. "I have to be strong to keep moving forward," she said. "I have faith I'll overcome and be in a better place in the future."
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Living beyond your means is the American dream.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Wow...just wow. Not only are people stupid, it just goes to show how stupid the lending instituations were in giving out loans. No wonder EVERYONE (including the banks) are going down....and the rest of us that are responsible enough to pay our debts and not get over our heads, take it up the ass by giving a taxpayer bailout.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.
 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,287
12
81
It wasn't the house that got her, it was the adjustable rate mortgage combined with the housing slump. She was not the only wage earner living in the house, as there would be no way to afford a 4100 payment on 25k a year. The fact hat the real estate agent assured her she could refinance is a bunch of crap, and in my state is illegal. She paid for professional advice, and was flat out lied to. There in lies the real problem. Professional ethics in the real estate and banking industries went in the crapper in the last 10 years.

 

CorCentral

Banned
Feb 11, 2001
6,415
1
0
They'll all get bailed out by the government anyway, what do they care?.......... and we'll be the ones paying for it! :thumbsdown:
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Doesn't her husband work? If he doesn't make any money, then I'm not sure how the $1100/month she was paying was ever doable. I guess with $25k/year and two dependent children, they probably didn't have to pay much taxes. With the EIC, the government may have even been paying her. Even paying only $1100/month, it's crazy to buy a house when you DEPEND on two other people paying a combined $3000 in rent each month. I can't believe she was able to get a loan.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental
 

BassBomb

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2005
8,396
1
81
Originally posted by: NL5
It wasn't the house that got her, it was the adjustable rate mortgage combined with the housing slump. She was not the only wage earner living in the house, as there would be no way to afford a 4100 payment on 25k a year. The fact hat the real estate agent assured her she could refinance is a bunch of crap, and in my state is illegal. She paid for professional advice, and was flat out lied to. There in lies the real problem. Professional ethics in the real estate and banking industries went in the crapper in the last 10 years.

She is still an idiot
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: mugs
Doesn't her husband work? If he doesn't make any money, then I'm not sure how the $1100/month she was paying was ever doable. I guess with $25k/year and two dependent children, they probably didn't have to pay much taxes. With the EIC, the government may have even been paying her. Even paying only $1100/month, it's crazy to buy a house when you DEPEND on two other people paying a combined $3000 in rent each month. I can't believe she was able to get a loan.

Looks like her daughters helped pay the mortgage...

With her daughters each paying $1,500, she could cover the remaining $1,100

The payment was $4,100 per month (around $50,000 of payments for someone making $25,000) and then went to $4,400 after rate adjustment....and that was the end of that boat.

Regardless, the lending institution didn't look at the lady's income in making the decision, since she had an outstanding credit record! :shocked: and :roll:
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

4. Other ATOTer points out hypocrisy of portion #3.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

4. Other ATOTer points out hypocrisy of portion #3.

5. Other ATOTer points out INFINITE RECURSION
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: mugs
Doesn't her husband work? If he doesn't make any money, then I'm not sure how the $1100/month she was paying was ever doable. I guess with $25k/year and two dependent children, they probably didn't have to pay much taxes. With the EIC, the government may have even been paying her. Even paying only $1100/month, it's crazy to buy a house when you DEPEND on two other people paying a combined $3000 in rent each month. I can't believe she was able to get a loan.

Looks like her daughters helped pay the mortgage...

With her daughters each paying $1,500, she could cover the remaining $1,100

Yeah, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the $3k/ month rent. Even though it was coming from her daughters, you can't depend on that to cover your mortgage when you can only afford 1/4 of it yourself. I'd love to know what the lender knew about what was going on. They obviously knew she wasn't paying $4100/month herself, so they must have known the daughters would be paying rent. I just don't know what they were thinking when they offered her a loan...
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

nah....we just need something new. This is an old story that we hear over and over again. We need a fresh story....like a certain fool getting an "All American Award" only to have it risk being stolen during a drive-by shoo....oh wait.... n/m.
 

SpunkyJones

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2004
5,090
1
81
How the hell do you take on a $4000 mortgage with her salary? I wish I had more sympathy, but I've run out.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: mugs
Doesn't her husband work? If he doesn't make any money, then I'm not sure how the $1100/month she was paying was ever doable. I guess with $25k/year and two dependent children, they probably didn't have to pay much taxes. With the EIC, the government may have even been paying her. Even paying only $1100/month, it's crazy to buy a house when you DEPEND on two other people paying a combined $3000 in rent each month. I can't believe she was able to get a loan.

Looks like her daughters helped pay the mortgage...

With her daughters each paying $1,500, she could cover the remaining $1,100

Yeah, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the $3k/ month rent. Even though it was coming from her daughters, you can't depend on that to cover your mortgage when you can only afford 1/4 of it yourself. I'd love to know what the lender knew about what was going on. They obviously knew she wasn't paying $4100/month herself, so they must have known the daughters would be paying rent. I just don't know what they were thinking when they offered her a loan...
'

They weren't thinking. They didn't require documentation on her income at all. Pretty sad really. I remember car dealers used to require documentation on a car purchase, but not you don't need documentation to buy a home? WTF?

 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT people chastise the person for being a godamned moron and not using the brain they were born with. It's getting old.

fixed.

Your right, it is getting old...people should be REQUIRED to go to a financial counselor and be taught how to operate a fucking calculator before they are even allowed to be considered for a home purchase.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

4. Other ATOTer points out hypocrisy of portion #3.

5. Other ATOTer points out INFINITE RECURSION

6. Other ATOTer points out that 4 and 5 are the same, so ste 5 was not followed as it calls for "other" ATOTer.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: NL5
It wasn't the house that got her, it was the adjustable rate mortgage combined with the housing slump. She was not the only wage earner living in the house, as there would be no way to afford a 4100 payment on 25k a year. The fact hat the real estate agent assured her she could refinance is a bunch of crap, and in my state is illegal. She paid for professional advice, and was flat out lied to. There in lies the real problem. Professional ethics in the real estate and banking industries went in the crapper in the last 10 years.

Thank you sir for your intelligent and reasonable post. I think people who reply without the words "stupid, idiot, or retard" should be rewarded ellite status.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,328
68
91
$4400 mortgage payment?
That's her entire yearly wage for just 6 months!

What a retard.

Now she is retreating back to Mexico.
At least she wasn't an illegal.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
On a side note, take a look at your 401k (or other accounts with mutual funds in it) and see what a nice result from the mortgage mess (above) has done to US ALL (not to mention tax money for bailouts later).
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,359
5,017
136
Originally posted by: Gibson486
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

nah....we just need something new. This is an old story that we hear over and over again. We need a fresh story....like a certain fool getting an "All American Award" only to have it risk being stolen during a drive-by shoo....oh wait.... n/m.

I recognize that E=MC^2 reference...
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
On a side note, take a look at your 401k (or other accounts with mutual funds in it) and see what a nice result from the mortgage mess (above) has done to US ALL (not to mention tax money for bailouts later).
Fantastic buying opportunity?

 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
1
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
On a side note, take a look at your 401k (or other accounts with mutual funds in it) and see what a nice result from the mortgage mess (above) has done to US ALL (not to mention tax money for bailouts later).

Sarcasm? My 401k sucks recently.
 
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