some people are just stupid or REALLY bad with money

[NL5]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Would you trust the nurse if she said your balls needed to come off?

Depends, that's all I could see when I had crap ass HMO insurance.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

The difference is that you still cannot spell "moron"

It's a joke - I guess in your infinite wisdom you missed that, and the "wink" after it the first time. You get on the internets much?

Do a search just in ATOT for "moran". You'll get a million threads. Old and tired joke, but one that should have been readily obvious. I think Engineer caught it.

I am 1/2 asleep and been about to pass out since lunch. I'm out of it. Opps. lol

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: neodyn55
that being said, she's paying the price (no pun intended) for her mistakes anyway so there's probably no point in chastising her further.

She's paying the price? LOL, you and I will be paying the price in the form of a big ole taxpayer bailout of the banking and lending institutions. And to put no blame on the mortgage professionals is complete short sighted, IMO.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

You are changing bad advice into utterly ludicrous advice. Period. Bad analogy.

as much as you are comparing heeding blatantly obvious bad advice ($25k income $500k house) to sound advice (cancer, building foundations).

i don't think you are getting the point so i'll bold it for you.
she should have had enough common sense to see that it was not something she could afford. i don't care what the RE agent and lenders told her. it does not take a genius to figure this part out.
she did not so therefore she is an idiot and i'll continue to call her one.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: NL5
I think Engineer caught it.

I assumed that was what the was for, otherwise, I would have flamed away! :laugh:

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: NL5
I think Engineer caught it.

I assumed that was what the was for, otherwise, I would have flamed away! :laugh:

You win lol

I failed

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

You are changing bad advice into utterly ludicrous advice. Period. Bad analogy.

as much as you are comparing heeding blatantly obvious bad advice ($25k income $500k house) to sound advice (cancer, building foundations).

i don't think you are getting the point so i'll bold it for you.
she should have had enough common sense to see that it was not something she could afford. i don't care what the RE agent and lenders told her. it does not take a genius to figure this part out.
she did not so therefore she is an idiot and i'll continue to call her one.

Let me say again - she afforded the mortgage as it was just fine. She was told she could refinance so it wouldn't go up. When she couldn't refinance, it went up, then she couldn't afford it. She abided by the terms she was told by the broker, and could afford the payments. How are you not understanding that?

 

[oznerol]

I don't understand a few things here:

1 - What is the point of this article? Is it to emphasize the struggle of the middle/lower class or give an inside look into why we are in the housing crisis in the first place? Am I supposed to feel sympathy or anger? The way it is written, I would guess sympathy.
2 - Why are you guys arguing whether or not the buyer is more of an idiot than the loaner? Regardless of how intelligent their choices may be, both should be held accountable - and in a way I feel both are. This is not the first time a society has had to suffer because of the poor decisions of the people, and it surely won't be the last.
3 - A nurse cutting off your balls? Seriously?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

You are changing bad advice into utterly ludicrous advice. Period. Bad analogy.

as much as you are comparing heeding blatantly obvious bad advice ($25k income $500k house) to sound advice (cancer, building foundations).

i don't think you are getting the point so i'll bold it for you.
she should have had enough common sense to see that it was not something she could afford. i don't care what the RE agent and lenders told her. it does not take a genius to figure this part out.
she did not so therefore she is an idiot and i'll continue to call her one.

No, NL5 has been spot on correct during this entire thread. You can call her an idiot as much as you like but the bottom line is that she is not required to be a professional lender any more than we are required to be professional doctors. We pay these people to be the professionals for us when we need them and we expect to be protected by the government if they screw us over, give us bad advise, or purposely take advantage of us by being able to feed us crap that is not true and we cannot tell the difference because we are not professionals.

The main difference between the professional doctor and the professional lender is that doctors are much more vulnerable to lawsuits if they screw up thanks to the rules and regulations provided by our government in order to ensure quality. In the case of the lenders, there are not nearly as much regulations in place as their needs to be and you know what is going to happen now? Now, people like you and I are going to end up bailing out the country with our tax dollars whether we like it or not. It all could have been prevented if we had stricter regulations and stricter quality assurance.

With that, I will ask you one question. How many multi billion dollar housing bailouts and economic disasters in this country will it take for you to believe that we need much stricter regulations because these lenders should take most of the blame? How many?

 

[eleison]

This is nothing... I knew an idiot who convinced a bank to loan him 150K for a new house in 2004.. He was Hispanic and only made $7/hr.. I laughed at him and told him he couldn't afford. Two years later, I noticed he had a mercedes parked in his drive way. I asked him how he was able to afford it. He told me he was selling his house to some woman in a month for 500K.. Boy was I wrong -- he could afford it. I think he's in mexico enjoying his little nest egg now..

Point of the story??? oh, he gambled and won... she gambled and lost... don't blame the craps dealer.. thats life..

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

You are changing bad advice into utterly ludicrous advice. Period. Bad analogy.

as much as you are comparing heeding blatantly obvious bad advice ($25k income $500k house) to sound advice (cancer, building foundations).

i don't think you are getting the point so i'll bold it for you.
she should have had enough common sense to see that it was not something she could afford. i don't care what the RE agent and lenders told her. it does not take a genius to figure this part out.
she did not so therefore she is an idiot and i'll continue to call her one.

No, NL5 has been spot on correct during this entire thread. You can call her an idiot as much as you like but the bottom line is that she is not required to be a professional lender any more than we are required to be professional doctors. We pay these people to be the professionals for us when we need them and we expect to be protected by the government if they screw us over, give us bad advise, or purposely take advantage of us by being able to feed us crap that is not true and we cannot tell the difference because we are not professionals.

The main difference between the professional doctor and the professional lender is that doctors are much more vulnerable to lawsuits if they screw up thanks to the rules and regulations provided by our government in order to ensure quality. In the case of the lenders, there are not nearly as much regulations in place as their needs to be and you know what is going to happen now? Now, people like you and I are going to end up bailing out the country with our tax dollars whether we like it or not. It all could have been prevented if we hadn't relaxed regulations.

With that, I will ask you one question. How many multi billion dollar housing bailouts and economic disasters in this country will it take for you to believe that we need much stricter regulations because these lenders should take most of the blame? How many?

I went ahead and fixed that for you.

We had decent regulations in place, until they were relaxed to allow people *that otherwise couldn't afford home ownership* to become homeowners. It's the governments fault for relaxing those regulations, which in turn allowed lenders to become more predatory, which in turn let people that couldn't be homeowners previously get loans for houses they couldn't afford (and wouldn't have been approved for if the regs weren't relaxed).

We could have still had this "housing bubble" if they hadn't changed the lending laws, but it for sure wouldn't have been as major. It would have been more like a "normal" recession, instead of this complete sh!tstorm we are in currently.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I went ahead and fixed that for you.

We had decent regulations in place, until they were relaxed to allow people *that otherwise couldn't afford home ownership* to become homeowners. It's the governments fault for relaxing those regulations, which in turn allowed lenders to become more predatory, which in turn let people that couldn't be homeowners previously get loans for houses they couldn't afford (and wouldn't have been approved for if the regs weren't relaxed).

We could have still had this "housing bubble" if they hadn't changed the lending laws, but it for sure wouldn't have been as major. It would have been more like a "normal" recession, instead of this complete sh!tstorm we are in currently.

Thanks for correcting that one. The solution in terms of future prevention obviously remains the same, but knowing that was the case just makes me even more pissed. When exactly did they relax the regs anyways?

 

[ElFenix]

that's nearly 10% rate of interest even before the reset. wtf.

 

[Wheezer]

Listen all you bleeding hearts, it does not matter if we are talking about a bank, a realtor, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher or any other professional...NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE will have your best interest more at heart than you....not even mommy.


If you blindly follow the advice of ANYONE for ANYTHING and take their word as gospel without doing some investigating on your own so you don't get burned....fuck you...you get everything coming to you.

Is it that hard to write down some goddamned questions and seek second opinions?

When people get off their asses and quit putting their well being in the hands of others who don't give 2 shits on if you live or die, succeed or fail, this country will be a lot better off.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Listen all you bleeding hearts, it does not matter if we are talking about a bank, a realtor, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher or any other professional...NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE will have your best interest more at heart than you....not even mommy.


If you blindly follow the advice of ANYONE for ANYTHING and take their word as gospel without doing some investigating on your own so you don't get burned....fuck you...you get everything coming to you.

Is it that hard to write down some goddamned questions and seek second opinions?

When people get off their asses and quit putting their well being in the hands of others who don't give 2 shits on if you live or die, succeed or fail, this country will be a lot better off.

It's not that black and white. You do not need to follow a professional's advice blindly in order for something really bad to happen as a result of missing just one important detail or to be misinformed during your own research. This is why professionals exist in the first place. This is why we pay them. If doing it ourselves were easy and the margin of error were small then these people wouldn't have a job.

 

[JulesMaximus]

What moron loaned her the money?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
No, NL5 has been spot on correct during this entire thread. You can call her an idiot as much as you like but the bottom line is that she is not required to be a professional lender any more than we are required to be professional doctors. We pay these people to be the professionals for us when we need them and we expect to be protected by the government if they screw us over, give us bad advise, or purposely take advantage of us by being able to feed us crap that is not true and we cannot tell the difference because we are not professionals.

The main difference between the professional doctor and the professional lender is that doctors are much more vulnerable to lawsuits if they screw up thanks to the rules and regulations provided by our government in order to ensure quality. In the case of the lenders, there are not nearly as much regulations in place as their needs to be and you know what is going to happen now? Now, people like you and I are going to end up bailing out the country with our tax dollars whether we like it or not. It all could have been prevented if we had stricter regulations and stricter quality assurance.

With that, I will ask you one question. How many multi billion dollar housing bailouts and economic disasters in this country will it take for you to believe that we need much stricter regulations because these lenders should take most of the blame? How many?

OK, you guys keep taking away the responsibility from the buyer.
sure, don't think for yourself and become morons like the rest of the population.

i'm not calling her a moron because she doesn't know and know the ins and outs of mortgage lending.
I'm caling her a moron because she was not using common sense.

she should've been thinking...
can i afford something that will cost me $900/month if i'm only making $1000/month? probably but it will be a stretch (at this point, flags should be raising and she should realize she really can't afford this place)
now what if that $900 becomes $1100/month, which could be very likely? - at this point, all kinds of sirens and lights should be going off.

it's really THAT simple.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Listen all you bleeding hearts, it does not matter if we are talking about a bank, a realtor, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher or any other professional...NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE will have your best interest more at heart than you....not even mommy.


If you blindly follow the advice of ANYONE for ANYTHING and take their word as gospel without doing some investigating on your own so you don't get burned....fuck you...you get everything coming to you.

Is it that hard to write down some goddamned questions and seek second opinions?

When people get off their asses and quit putting their well being in the hands of others who don't give 2 shits on if you live or die, succeed or fail, this country will be a lot better off.

It's not that black and white. You do not need to follow a professional's advice blindly in order for something really bad to happen as a result of missing just one important detail or to be misinformed during your own research. This is why professionals exist in the first place. This is why we pay them. If doing it ourselves were easy and the margin of error were small then these people wouldn't have a job.

It doesn't take a great deal of research to calculate the monthly payment on a mortgage, and to understand that the rate will increase after a specified number of years. You also don't need to be any sort of professional to realize that depending on 3 incomes to make the monthly mortgage payment is incredibly risky.

Regarding the issue of refinancing, I'm not sure if it is fair to expect someone to believe that house prices will continue to rise indefinitely, or will at least not drop to the point that the homeowner has negative equity and is unable to refinance.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Listen all you bleeding hearts, it does not matter if we are talking about a bank, a realtor, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher or any other professional...NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE will have your best interest more at heart than you....not even mommy.


If you blindly follow the advice of ANYONE for ANYTHING and take their word as gospel without doing some investigating on your own so you don't get burned....fuck you...you get everything coming to you.

Is it that hard to write down some goddamned questions and seek second opinions?

When people get off their asses and quit putting their well being in the hands of others who don't give 2 shits on if you live or die, succeed or fail, this country will be a lot better off.

It's not that black and white. You do not need to follow a professional's advice blindly in order for something really bad to happen as a result of missing just one important detail or to be misinformed during your own research. This is why professionals exist in the first place. This is why we pay them. If doing it ourselves were easy and the margin of error were small then these people wouldn't have a job.

no, you are making it far more complicated than it needs to be.

a few key punches in a calculator would tell you that ona 25k salary you CANNOT afford a 500k home.

What she did was quite simple...she allowed her wants to override her needs.

How many of you have turned down a car salesman? He tried to sweet talk you into a new car that you KNEW you could not afford and you walked away?

How is this any different?

Its not, it is as simple as sitting down with a calculator, a pencil and some paper BEFORE you go out searching for a home and you limit what you will purchase.

that DOES NOT require a CPA.

She got all frothy mouthed when someone else told her what she could afford, she justified it in her own mind, forget that she could have lost anyone of those people in an accident, forget anyone of those people could have lost their job, forget that anyone of those people could have gotten pissed off at her and walked out at any given time and left her high and dry.

I feel absolutely no pity for anyone that finds themselves in this kind of circumstance.

she fucked herself, plain and simple, and now she is fucking the rest of us just like all the other slobs that did the same thing.

I hope they rot in hell.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
a few key punches in a calculator would tell you that ona 25k salary you CANNOT afford a 500k home.

No shit.

Did you read the article? Most people have more income than just a salary. She had substantially more. You must have missed that part.

Also, everybody saying having renters is no guarantee of income - do you think any source of income is guaranteed? If you do, there is a very good chance that sometime in your life you will get one hellava eyeopener. My rental income has been substantially more reliable than my income from actually working. (thank god for that)


I can't imagine a world like you are wishing for. You talk about responsibility, in your dream world nobody has ANY. That would be swell - personally, I'm all for it - not very noble, but in a no rule contest for survival of the fittest, screw everybody in your path kinda world, I'd be at the top.

 

[AlienCraft]

"Do people do the math...?" No, most people can't do anything more than simple arithmetic.
And the majority of those can't do most of the basics with any degree of confidence.

 

[sygyzy]

Wait, the mortgage jumped $300 ($4100 to 4400) and that destroyed her?

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: Wheezer
a few key punches in a calculator would tell you that ona 25k salary you CANNOT afford a 500k home.

No shit.

Did you read the article? Most people have more income than just a salary. She had substantially more. You must have missed that part.

Also, everybody saying having renters is no guarantee of income - do you think any source of income is guaranteed? If you do, there is a very good chance that sometime in your life you will get one hellava eyeopener. My rental income has been substantially more reliable than my income from actually working. (thank god for that)


I can't imagine a world like you are wishing for. You talk about responsibility, in your dream world nobody has ANY. That would be swell - personally, I'm all for it - not very noble, but in a no rule contest for survival of the fittest, screw everybody in your path kinda world, I'd be at the top.

You're making it a lot more complicated that it needs to be.

She got broken over 300 a month

that's right. $300 a month. About how much an iPod costs.

regardless of what the professional said, a whole bunch of things could cause an increase in $300 in your monthly costs.

your point would be valid if her month costs increased by a lot. Like 25%

but to lose her home over $300... not to mention all the problems she had with her family, it just smacks of short sightedness.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: neodyn55
that being said, she's paying the price (no pun intended) for her mistakes anyway so there's probably no point in chastising her further.

She's paying the price? LOL, you and I will be paying the price in the form of a big ole taxpayer bailout of the banking and lending institutions. And to put no blame on the mortgage professionals is complete short sighted, IMO.

I didn't say he wasn't to be blamed.

However, the buyer's the one whose money is at stake. It's common sense to be diligent and not do stupid things like getting your life turned upside down for $300 a month.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: Wheezer
a few key punches in a calculator would tell you that ona 25k salary you CANNOT afford a 500k home.

No shit.

Did you read the article? Most people have more income than just a salary. She had substantially more. You must have missed that part.

Also, everybody saying having renters is no guarantee of income - do you think any source of income is guaranteed? If you do, there is a very good chance that sometime in your life you will get one hellava eyeopener. My rental income has been substantially more reliable than my income from actually working. (thank god for that)


I can't imagine a world like you are wishing for. You talk about responsibility, in your dream world nobody has ANY. That would be swell - personally, I'm all for it - not very noble, but in a no rule contest for survival of the fittest, screw everybody in your path kinda world, I'd be at the top.

nice try, but lets go back over this.

I did read the article hence my statments about everyone else who was involved.

SHE only made 25,000 SHE was counting on other people in her family to pick up the slack....REMEMBER:

she makes $25,000 a year at the factory

She and one daughter split the two bedrooms upstairs, while her older daughter lived on the ground floor with her husband and two young children. With her daughters each paying $1,500, she could cover the remaining $1,100.

so she was not making any more money, she was counting on other people that could be taken out of the picture at any given time for any reason, or through the loss of a job...re-read my post....I was pretty clear on this.

and to your point....NOTHING is guaranteed in this life which is why you do not live beyond your means....those that do are morons and deserve everything they get.

If you are not going to learn from the mistakes others have made then the only way is for you to learn it by yourself and suffer.

It's like seeing your buddy touch the hot stove and burn his hand....most people are intelligent enough to not touch the hot stove, but then you have those idiots that need to see for themselves and then cry bitch when they get burned...boo fucking hoo.

The world I live in is simply this...be responsible for your own actions, you break it....fix it, you mess it up, clean it up, don't expect someone to walk behind you for the rest of your life cleaning up your fuckups.

With television, the news and the internet we all have the same opportunity to learn what is going on around us and how to avoid the pitfalls.....if you chose to ignore the signs and end up screwed because of it....well, too bad....maybe next time you'll pay more attention.