Some questions for true believers

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
This is classic, never seen it before.

:thumbsup:

This is good.

Always quite entertaining to back the Religion Zealots into their own corner :laugh:

 

[glorifiedg790]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: ELP

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
We are a bit more civilized then the ancient hebrews were. Leviticus is a book of laws much like Deuteronomy, which defines Judaism from paganism. Homosexual relationships were very prevalent among pagans, Greeks for example. Much from the influence of Jesus laws have changed. Paul and Peter from Acts of the Apostles once had a dispute over whether new converts should have to be circumsizes to be Christians. Peter insisted this was the case. Paul, however said that Christinanity is separate from Judaism. So your post isn't so funny if you know about the origins of the Bible and its writers. You must not realize American law is based mostly on Christinanity.

"Paul said"?????

Oh, I get it: The law DOESN'T come from God, as all the self-righteous hypocrites have been claiming. It comes from HUMANS squabbling among themselves, trying to decide what is or is not "the law".

And since, as you imply, Leviticus is passe', that means the admonition against homosexuality is passe'.

So why this obsession with the ten commandments? And with being opposed to gay marriage?


Sounds awfully funny to me.

Don't expect a serious response...

Expect something to the effect that you are just trying to bash Christianity.

Don't question, just accept.

you people have serious issues. all you are just posting stuff you think is true, but you really have no idea. sad but true...some jerk is going to quote this, or quote it and say no im not quoting you but.....or someone will confront me. My post made complete sense. If you had any faith in Jesus you would understand. I have been taking scirpture all this year. I know what I am talking about. I am not going to bother contradicting the people who quoted me because their lack of reason will eventually win this debate...seems the way things go...in this bull crap world. Ebveryone thinks that they are right, and has such a narrow mind. Especially when they are at their computers, safe from any real human contact.

who's this jesus dude i should have faith in? i know a jesus at my local poker house, but he's not too good, so i wouldn't have faith in him with my money.
you got another one?

seriously this is the most fvcking funny answer: "you would understand if you had faith" = you would understand if you believed and didn't question, just trust us.

great logic.

im not even going to bother. someone senses faith they attack it and call it unlogical.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
im not even going to bother. someone senses faith they attack it and call it unlogical.

Um... it is illogical. Who besides you could argue against that? That is the definition of dogma. It isn't an attack, it is simply truth.

 

[glorifiedg790]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
im not even going to bother. someone senses faith they attack it and call it unlogical.

Um... it is illogical. Who besides you could argue against that? That is the definition of dogma. It isn't an attack, it is simply truth.

truth? i wasnt responding to you. you are a complete ninny. its called faith and doctrine. what the church teaches. doctrine is based on Jesus Christ. Christinanity is different from Judaism. I am not picking and choosing anything. You think you know everything about it, but don't even listen because you are too narrowminded. We don't know if anything in the Bible is true. That is what is called faith. How is that illogical?

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
im not even going to bother. someone senses faith they attack it and call it unlogical.

Um... it is illogical. Who besides you could argue against that? That is the definition of dogma. It isn't an attack, it is simply truth.

truth? i wasnt responding to you. you are a complete ninny. its called faith and doctrine. what the church teaches. doctrine is based on Jesus Christ. Christinanity is different from Judaism. I am not picking and choosing anything. You think you know everything about it, but don't even listen because you are too narrowminded. We don't know if anything in the Bible is true. That is what is called faith. How is that illogical?

... !

Here we go.

 

[glorifiedg790]

mmmmm yogurt?

 

[imported_litesgod]

Everyone has faith in something. For instance: I have faith that my wife isn't going to cheat on me. I have no reason to believe this other than pure faith/trust (same thing really), based on previous observations. I hate to bring science into this for fear of being stereotyped, but another example: I and many others have faith in modern physics. Very few of us are actually intelligent enough to understand the nuts and bolts of modern physics, but we have faith that people like Stephen Hawking or Brian Greene aren't going to mislead us. I believe that quantum mechanics works (or some derivative of it) based on faith in the scientific community.

Some people, myself included, have faith in the Bible/Church, base purely on trust and backed by prior observations in our own life. Faith isn't illogical- it is a natural human tendency. I could go into detail about what observations I have made that have led me to believe in the Bible/Church, but it wouldn't matter. Faith is always something personal.

 

[glorifiedg790]

good post.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
This is classic, never seen it before.

:thumbsup:

This is good.

Always quite entertaining to back the Religion Zealots into their own corner :laugh:

if actually look at the thread - the people you label "religious zealots" have actually given some very articulate and thought out answers. Quite the opposite of "backing into their own corner."

 

[Riprorin]

You left out the passages from the New Testament.

Two main passages in the New Testament declaring homosexuality to be a sin are Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. In the former, Paul speaks of the world as given over to "degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire towards one another, men with men committing indecent acts." In the Corinthian passage, Paul includes homosexuals among those who will not inherit the kingdom of God. "Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers? nor homosexuals?shall inherit the kingdom of God." Paul adds, "Such were some of you; but you were washed?sanctified?justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Thank God, there is a way out!

On homosexuality as a sin in the New Testament also see 1 Timothy 1:10 and Jude 7. The former links together "immoral men and homosexuals," and the latter speaks of Sodom and Gomorrah as those who "indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh." They are "exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

 

[fjord]

Obvious, but the only thing really missing is the word "alleged" immeadiately before every instance where the word "God" (or some derivative) is used.

 

[Steeplerot]

"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fvcking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions."
- Frank Zappa

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
You left out the passages from the New Testament.

Two main passages in the New Testament declaring homosexuality to be a sin are Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. In the former, Paul speaks of the world as given over to "degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire towards one another, men with men committing indecent acts." In the Corinthian passage, Paul includes homosexuals among those who will not inherit the kingdom of God. "Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers? nor homosexuals?shall inherit the kingdom of God." Paul adds, "Such were some of you; but you were washed?sanctified?justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Thank God, there is a way out!

On homosexuality as a sin in the New Testament also see 1 Timothy 1:10 and Jude 7. The former links together "immoral men and homosexuals," and the latter speaks of Sodom and Gomorrah as those who "indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh." They are "exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Um, gee. You seem to have left out pro-slavery passages from the new testament:

Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made."

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;"

Luke 12:45-48: "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Note: "Servant" is bible-speak for "slave".

 

[Riprorin]

I fail to see how the verses you quoted are pro-slavery.

Jesus' mission was a spiritual one: He came to earth to offer Himself as an atoning sacrifice that we might be freed from our sin.

The Bible is greater than any prevailing economic system. It offers a message of hope, forgiveness, and love of one's fellow man, regardless of his status.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
This is classic, never seen it before.

:thumbsup:

This is good.

Always quite entertaining to back the Religion Zealots into their own corner :laugh:

if actually look at the thread - the people you label "religious zealots" have actually given some very articulate and thought out answers. Quite the opposite of "backing into their own corner."

Yea, "articulate" for Bible Puppeteering.

Could go to Church and get that straight from the Pulpit, not neccessary to see it again online.

 

[smc13]

Funny, all those quotes are from the torah, not the new testament. You people should be pointing the finger at us Jews and not them johny come lately Christians. ;-)

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I fail to see how the verses you quoted are pro-slavery.

First you quote NT scripture to support the claim that the NT was anti-homosexuality. But now you're poo-pooing clearly pro-slavery passages and claiming the NT's function isn't to define what sin is at all; rather it's to describe Christ's sacrifice.

We might be able to understand you better if you let us know in advance which side of your mouth you're speaking out of.

But I see your point. How could, "his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had", possibly be interpreted as meaning that God is promoting slavery?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I fail to see how the verses you quoted are pro-slavery.

First you quote NT scripture to support the claim that the NT was anti-homosexuality. But now you're poo-pooing clearly pro-slavery passages and claiming the NT's function isn't to define what sin is at all; rather it's to describe Christ's sacrifice.

We might be able to understand you better if you let us know in advance which side of your mouth you're speaking out of.

But I see your point. How could, "his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had", possibly be interpreted as meaning that God is promoting slavery?

I'm not sure what you're so angry about, but if you could temper it a bit we could probably have a more reasonable discussion.

Regardless, here are some things for you to ponder regarding the verses you consider "pro-slavery".

Mattthew 18:25. Here's is the verse in context:

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, ?Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times??
Jesus answered, ?I tell you, not seven times, but seventyseven times.

?Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

?The servant fell on his knees before him. ?Be patient with me,? he begged, ?and I will pay back everything.? The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

?But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ?Pay back what you owe me!? he demanded.

?His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ?Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.?

?But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

?Then the master called the servant in. ?You wicked servant,? he said, ?I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?? 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

?This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.?

This is a parable which exorts us to be merciful to others as God is merciful to us.


You write Luke 12:45-48, but you only quote verse 48. Here's the verse in context:

But suppose the servant says to himself, ?My master is taking a long time in coming,? and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

?That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

This is a parable that talks about stewardship. There wil be a punishment for those who rebel against the will of God.


You write Ephesians 6:5-9 but you only quoted verse 5. Here are verses 5-9:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

The Bible teaches kind, gentle and compassionate treatment of all under one's care.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I fail to see how the verses you quoted are pro-slavery.

First you quote NT scripture to support the claim that the NT was anti-homosexuality. But now you're poo-pooing clearly pro-slavery passages and claiming the NT's function isn't to define what sin is at all; rather it's to describe Christ's sacrifice.

We might be able to understand you better if you let us know in advance which side of your mouth you're speaking out of.

But I see your point. How could, "his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had", possibly be interpreted as meaning that God is promoting slavery?

I'm not sure what you're so angry about, but if you could temper it a bit we could probably have a more reasonable discussion.

Regardless, here are some things for you to ponder regarding the verses you consider "pro-slavery".


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

The Bible teaches kind, gentle and compassionate treatment of all under one's care.

Bahahahaha, one of the all time slaves to the Republican machine talking about Master/Slaves and trying to preach at the same time.

Now this is Entertainment :laugh:

 

[TWills]

People say whatever suits them in front of the computer because there are absolutely no consequences for it. However, when confronted with actual people, opinions are dolled out in a radically different manner. Open berating of others is held back.

Why?

Because, quite simply, there are consequences to such behavior in a face to face confrontation. Punishment, in other words. When there are no consequences (sitting in front of a computer), your true colors are plain for all to see.

The very same rule applies in how God works. Here on earth, there ARE. NO. CONSEQUENCES. TO. ANYTHING.

EVER.

But, in the inevitable face to face confrontation, things will be different. The twist is, God is aware of your more...natural, view of things. And there will be consequences.

Remember, there are no dead athiests.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I fail to see how the verses you quoted are pro-slavery.

First you quote NT scripture to support the claim that the NT was anti-homosexuality. But now you're poo-pooing clearly pro-slavery passages and claiming the NT's function isn't to define what sin is at all; rather it's to describe Christ's sacrifice.

We might be able to understand you better if you let us know in advance which side of your mouth you're speaking out of.

But I see your point. How could, "his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had", possibly be interpreted as meaning that God is promoting slavery?

I'm not sure what you're so angry about, but if you could temper it a bit we could probably have a more reasonable discussion.

Regardless, here are some things for you to ponder regarding the verses you consider "pro-slavery".


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

The Bible teaches kind, gentle and compassionate treatment of all under one's care.

Bahahahaha, one of the all time slaves to the Republican machine talking about Master/Slaves and trying to preach at the same time.

Now this is Entertainment :laugh:

wow - what a moron.

Lets see in till recent history slavery was a norm, it was ok. Now you mock a text writen 1900 years ago, because it was addressing an issue and how members of a new forming church/religon should approach slavery. A view that was progressive at that time. Look how the conquring Roman's treated there slaves.

I bet you would mock the early abolitionist's writings on slavery too.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fvcking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions."
- Frank Zappa

actually it was the tree of the knowledge OF good and evil.

Not knowledge in general.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
?Then the master called the servant in. ?You wicked servant,? he said, ?I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?? 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

?This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.?

This is a parable which exorts us to be merciful to others as God is merciful to us.

You know, that's actually rather more disturbing than the original one was. I'd say that it's actually a parable that threatens that god will be merciless to you unless you are truly forgiving of people. Or do I somehow misinterpret the heavenly father treating part ?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: glorifiedg790
We are a bit more civilized then the ancient hebrews were. Leviticus is a book of laws much like Deuteronomy, which defines Judaism from paganism. Homosexual relationships were very prevalent among pagans, Greeks for example. Much from the influence of Jesus laws have changed. Paul and Peter from Acts of the Apostles once had a dispute over whether new converts should have to be circumsizes to be Christians. Peter insisted this was the case. Paul, however said that Christinanity is separate from Judaism. So your post isn't so funny if you know about the origins of the Bible and its writers. You must not realize American law is based mostly on Christinanity.

"Paul said"?????

Oh, I get it: The law DOESN'T come from God, as all the self-righteous hypocrites have been claiming. It comes from HUMANS squabbling among themselves, trying to decide what is or is not "the law".

And since, as you imply, Leviticus is passe', that means the admonition against homosexuality is passe'.

So why this obsession with the ten commandments? And with being opposed to gay marriage?

Fear. Repression. Control.

Sounds awfully funny to me.

 

[mhillary]

Its about time God came....