Somebody forgot to tell Joe this wasn't a town hall

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: monovillage
Looks like Joe has gotten $750,000 in donations in the last 2 days. Here's the link.
http://voices.washingtonpost.c...akes_in_750000_in.html

Was just going to post that. He's got a ton of support! I may even send him 500 bucks just to say "keep it up". One of the other forums I visit has a thread over 200 posts, all supporting him and giving him 100+ bucks each.

GO JOE!

You can't be a patriot when you love party more than country. How many times do you have to be told the obvious?

I gave him 1000 bucks for his patriotism and calling out the president and his lies. What have YOU done?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Psstt - you should read the link

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants...the reforms I?m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." by BHO is simply untrue period.

I did read the link, my post stands.

Like I said, to think that Obama's statement was untrue would require you to think about health care reform like an insane person. Luckily for all of us, the Democrats were not willing to take the incredibly irresponsible steps the Republicans were trying to make them do.

Wrong. His statement is factually incorrect - period. His plan would in fact apply to illegals. They may not be fully covered or get "free" healthcare but that's not the claim here. The claim is from BHO that his reforms wouldn't cover illegals - no sane person looking at the "reform" debate can claim such a thing - especially since the D party won't add verification to reforms.

Verification like what? What will satisfy you? Microchip implants? Or a national ID card? :roll:

How about this one that the lappers voted down?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: monovillage
Looks like Joe has gotten $750,000 in donations in the last 2 days. Here's the link.
http://voices.washingtonpost.c...akes_in_750000_in.html

Was just going to post that. He's got a ton of support! I may even send him 500 bucks just to say "keep it up". One of the other forums I visit has a thread over 200 posts, all supporting him and giving him 100+ bucks each.

GO JOE!

You can't be a patriot when you love party more than country. How many times do you have to be told the obvious?

I gave him 1000 bucks for his patriotism and calling out the president and his lies. What have YOU done?

1.) I don't believe you.

2.) You didn't understand his post.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: monovillage
Looks like Joe has gotten $750,000 in donations in the last 2 days. Here's the link.
http://voices.washingtonpost.c...akes_in_750000_in.html

Was just going to post that. He's got a ton of support! I may even send him 500 bucks just to say "keep it up". One of the other forums I visit has a thread over 200 posts, all supporting him and giving him 100+ bucks each.

GO JOE!

You can't be a patriot when you love party more than country. How many times do you have to be told the obvious?

I gave him 1000 bucks for his patriotism and calling out the president and his lies. What have YOU done?

And you had the gall to tell me that paying my home off early was a stupid move? LOL @ paying a stupid politician...not even from your own home state.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

I gave him 1000 bucks for his patriotism and calling out the president and his lies. What have YOU done?

1.) I don't believe you.

2.) You didn't understand his post.[/quote]

Calling out the president and his lies has nothing to do with party.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Psstt - you should read the link

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants...the reforms I?m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." by BHO is simply untrue period.

I did read the link, my post stands.

Like I said, to think that Obama's statement was untrue would require you to think about health care reform like an insane person. Luckily for all of us, the Democrats were not willing to take the incredibly irresponsible steps the Republicans were trying to make them do.

Wrong. His statement is factually incorrect - period. His plan would in fact apply to illegals. They may not be fully covered or get "free" healthcare but that's not the claim here. The claim is from BHO that his reforms wouldn't cover illegals - no sane person looking at the "reform" debate can claim such a thing - especially since the D party won't add verification to reforms.

IOW, if under the reforms insurance companies were still allowed to refuse to cover an illegal b/c of a pre-existing condition or impose a lifetime/annual cap on payouts to illegals, then he'd be telling the truth. So the reforms Obama refers to don't include a section that says "Illegals shall not benefit from any of the general fixes incorporated into this legislation".

Thus, the argument is NOT that the reforms somehow initiate subsidising illegals, despite this being the common understanding of the Wilsonite screamers, it's that when we fix our healthcare system, any illegals who buy in at full price and end up subsidizing OUR healthcare will also be protected from insurance company predatory practices.

Which really, uh, makes me mad. Grrr. Arrrg.

 

[Mursilis]

Just when this controversy was beginning to die down, out comes the race card:Text
:roll:

Frankly, I find the allegations of racism against presidential critics to be as pathetic as the charges of treason against critics of Bush. Politics is practically a blood sport in the US, and Obama is catching flak because he's the president, not because he's black. Crying racism everytime some little incident like Wilson's shout (for which he's already apologized) occurs just makes it that much harder for real victims of real racism to receive justice. But I'd expect nothing less from Congressional Democrats, who've ridden the race card long and hard over the years.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Just when this controversy was beginning to die down, out comes the race card:Text
:roll:

Frankly, I find the allegations of racism against presidential critics to be as pathetic as the charges of treason against critics of Bush. Politics is practically a blood sport in the US, and Obama is catching flak because he's the president, not because he's black. Crying racism everytime some little incident like Wilson's shout (for which he's already apologized) occurs just makes it that much harder for real victims of real racism to receive justice. But I'd expect nothing less from Congressional Democrats, who've ridden the race card long and hard over the years.

You really think that race plays no role in the opposition to Obama? That he received more death threats than anyone in history (by a wide margin) despite running a centrist campaign because... why?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Psstt - you should read the link

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants...the reforms I?m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." by BHO is simply untrue period.

I did read the link, my post stands.

Like I said, to think that Obama's statement was untrue would require you to think about health care reform like an insane person. Luckily for all of us, the Democrats were not willing to take the incredibly irresponsible steps the Republicans were trying to make them do.

Wrong. His statement is factually incorrect - period. His plan would in fact apply to illegals. They may not be fully covered or get "free" healthcare but that's not the claim here. The claim is from BHO that his reforms wouldn't cover illegals - no sane person looking at the "reform" debate can claim such a thing - especially since the D party won't add verification to reforms.

God dammit dude, you are such a lying PoS. I only wish I could bitchslap some sense into you. You know who you sound like? You sound like Clinton.

"...it depends on what the meaning of the word is is."

So in a nutshell, you and your mouth-foaming wingnuts are pissed because ... wait for it ... because illegals could BUY into the healthcare system just like they can RIGHT NOW?

FFS. :roll:

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Just when this controversy was beginning to die down, out comes the race card:Text
:roll:

Frankly, I find the allegations of racism against presidential critics to be as pathetic as the charges of treason against critics of Bush. Politics is practically a blood sport in the US, and Obama is catching flak because he's the president, not because he's black. Crying racism everytime some little incident like Wilson's shout (for which he's already apologized) occurs just makes it that much harder for real victims of real racism to receive justice. But I'd expect nothing less from Congressional Democrats, who've ridden the race card long and hard over the years.

You really think that race plays no role in the opposition to Obama? That he received more death threats than anyone in history (by a wide margin) despite running a centrist campaign because... why?

Are some critics of the President racist? Without a doubt. Is Joe Wilson, or was his outburst fueled by racism? I see no proof of that.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Mursilis
...
Are some critics of the President racist? Without a doubt. Is Joe Wilson, or was his outburst fueled by racism? I see no proof of that.

I'd never heard of joe "that's a lie" wilson before his recent outburst. But since then, there have been several revelations about him that might paint him as a racist.

He belongs to the sons of confederate veterans.

He debunked the claim of a black woman about being the offspring of strom thurmond - even after thurmond declared that is was true.

He's been under attack for years by black (and some white) politicians from his own state and neighboring states.

No one of these is clear proof of racism but there does appear to be some smoke. I've lived in southern georgia for several years and can verify that many here are still fighting the civil war and fully agree with trent lott's incendiary comments at thurmonds 100th birthday.

 

[brandonbull]

So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

TRUE to your first question, FALSE to the second


So is it true or false that illegals can buy insurance today under or current system? TRUE

Will illegals under the current propsals be able to get government subsidies to pay for insurance? NO, specifically forbidden by the wording of the proposal

Absolutely nothing changes in regard to illegals, period. Anyone claiming that any of the proposals being floated around extend bennies to illegals that they don't already have under our current system is a BALD FACED LIAR just like Joe Wilson

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

The first one is true, the second false.

They can buy insurance through the federal exchange for full price the same way they can buy private insurance now. Obama's insurance plan is giving coverage to illegal immigrants the same way the grocery store is 'giving' you food when you pay them money for it.

Illegal immigrants use health services at vastly lower rates than regular citizens for several reasons. First, they are afraid of getting apprehended/deported if they go to the hospital, but more importantly their demographics are overwhelmingly skewed towards the younger and healthier segments of the population. This means that if they DID choose to sign up for health insurance, they would be subsidizing the rest of us through their premiums (as young and healthy people do).

If you don't want illegal immigrants to give us money, by all means oppose this. If you want to look at it rationally and understand that Obama was referring to the fact that the federal government will be providing them exactly zero aid, then even the most xenophobic among us should be willing to support taking immigrants' money.

 

[jonks]

Gallup poll on J-Dub:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122...e-Wilson-Outburst.aspx

In short:

Support Wilson's outburst: 21%
Oppose Wilson's outburst: 68%

In slightly more depth:

Support:
- thrilled: 6%
- not thrilled: 15%

Oppose:
- outraged: 23%
- not outraged: 45%

It's broken down by party affiliation at the bottom.

GOP:
Oppose - 52%
Support - 39%

IND:
Oppose - 64%
Support - 25%

DEM:
Oppose - What do you think
Support - Take a friggin guess


Myself, I'm in the 45% Oppose/Not Outraged group. As we said back in the beginning, bad decorum, not a huge deal.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonbull
So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

The first one is true, the second false.

They can buy insurance through the federal exchange for full price the same way they can buy private insurance now. Obama's insurance plan is giving coverage to illegal immigrants the same way the grocery store is 'giving' you food when you pay them money for it.

Illegal immigrants use health services at vastly lower rates than regular citizens for several reasons. First, they are afraid of getting apprehended/deported if they go to the hospital, but more importantly their demographics are overwhelmingly skewed towards the younger and healthier segments of the population. This means that if they DID choose to sign up for health insurance, they would be subsidizing the rest of us through their premiums (as young and healthy people do).

If you don't want illegal immigrants to give us money, by all means oppose this. If you want to look at it rationally and understand that Obama was referring to the fact that the federal government will be providing them exactly zero aid, then even the most xenophobic among us should be willing to support taking immigrants' money.

I think Joe is arguing the fact that taxpayer money can be used to pay for health costs of illegals. Regardless of the stats and usage rates there does not seem to be specific exclusions for benefit limits based on residency status. However minor or stupid some people think it sounds, it seems to be Joe Wilson's point.

I'm most worried that government is trying to reinvent the health insurance wheel and will be crushed due to inexperience in design and the volume of people will be larger than the design capacity.

Illegals do not "give" us money. Huge amounts of money is sent back to their native country and lower skilled American workers have lost vast sums due to artifical wage despression.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonbull
So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

The first one is true, the second false.

They can buy insurance through the federal exchange for full price the same way they can buy private insurance now. Obama's insurance plan is giving coverage to illegal immigrants the same way the grocery store is 'giving' you food when you pay them money for it.

Illegal immigrants use health services at vastly lower rates than regular citizens for several reasons. First, they are afraid of getting apprehended/deported if they go to the hospital, but more importantly their demographics are overwhelmingly skewed towards the younger and healthier segments of the population. This means that if they DID choose to sign up for health insurance, they would be subsidizing the rest of us through their premiums (as young and healthy people do).

If you don't want illegal immigrants to give us money, by all means oppose this. If you want to look at it rationally and understand that Obama was referring to the fact that the federal government will be providing them exactly zero aid, then even the most xenophobic among us should be willing to support taking immigrants' money.

I think Joe is arguing the fact that taxpayer money can be used to pay for health costs of illegals. Regardless of the stats and usage rates there does not seem to be specific exclusions for benefit limits based on residency status. However minor or stupid some people think it sounds, it seems to be Joe Wilson's point.

I'm most worried that government is trying to reinvent the health insurance wheel and will be crushed due to inexperience in design and the volume of people will be larger than the design capacity.

Illegals do not "give" us money. Huge amounts of money is sent back to their native country and lower skilled American workers have lost vast sums due to artifical wage despression.

My reference to illegals 'giving' us money is to their participation in a public health plan. Due to the demographics of that population, they would almost certainly be net contributors, thus giving us money. Sure individuals might get more out than they pay in, but that's the whole point of insurance. If ten illegal immigrants came up and gave you $10, with the caveat that you had to give $20 to one, I hardly think you would be complaining that illegal immigrants were taking your money. If that IS Joe Wilson's point, it's really really stupid.

If Joe is arguing that taxpayer money can be used to pay for the health costs of illegals, he's a few decades late. If he has a problem with that, that's his business, but his problem lies with health care reforms passed under Reagan, not the plan proposed by Obama.

Why would you be worried about the government's inexperience? They currently administer about 40-odd percent of US health spending, along with a fully functioning all purpose health care system in the DoD. There's literally no more experienced organization in the country than the federal government when it comes to health care.

 

[Pens1566]

Which is no different than it is now. Already posted before.

On another note, nothing in the legislation limits the healthcare of pygmy siberian tigers either. Guess that means they're secretly sneaking it in there too.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonbull
So is it true or false that illegals can "buy" insurance through the insurance exchange thingy? And if said illegals use a lot of services, then federal money will subsidize them?

So are those true or false?

The first one is true, the second false.

They can buy insurance through the federal exchange for full price the same way they can buy private insurance now. Obama's insurance plan is giving coverage to illegal immigrants the same way the grocery store is 'giving' you food when you pay them money for it.

Illegal immigrants use health services at vastly lower rates than regular citizens for several reasons. First, they are afraid of getting apprehended/deported if they go to the hospital, but more importantly their demographics are overwhelmingly skewed towards the younger and healthier segments of the population. This means that if they DID choose to sign up for health insurance, they would be subsidizing the rest of us through their premiums (as young and healthy people do).

If you don't want illegal immigrants to give us money, by all means oppose this. If you want to look at it rationally and understand that Obama was referring to the fact that the federal government will be providing them exactly zero aid, then even the most xenophobic among us should be willing to support taking immigrants' money.

I think Joe is arguing the fact that taxpayer money can be used to pay for health costs of illegals. Regardless of the stats and usage rates there does not seem to be specific exclusions for benefit limits based on residency status. However minor or stupid some people think it sounds, it seems to be Joe Wilson's point.

I'm most worried that government is trying to reinvent the health insurance wheel and will be crushed due to inexperience in design and the volume of people will be larger than the design capacity.

Illegals do not "give" us money. Huge amounts of money is sent back to their native country and lower skilled American workers have lost vast sums due to artifical wage despression.

My reference to illegals 'giving' us money is to their participation in a public health plan. Due to the demographics of that population, they would almost certainly be net contributors, thus giving us money. Sure individuals might get more out than they pay in, but that's the whole point of insurance. If ten illegal immigrants came up and gave you $10, with the caveat that you had to give $20 to one, I hardly think you would be complaining that illegal immigrants were taking your money. If that IS Joe Wilson's point, it's really really stupid.

If Joe is arguing that taxpayer money can be used to pay for the health costs of illegals, he's a few decades late. If he has a problem with that, that's his business, but his problem lies with health care reforms passed under Reagan, not the plan proposed by Obama.

Why would you be worried about the government's inexperience? They currently administer about 40-odd percent of US health spending, along with a fully functioning all purpose health care system in the DoD. There's literally no more experienced organization in the country than the federal government when it comes to health care.

How many people think the government run health care business is profitable or at least breakeven?

How many people think the government run health care business is good?

What enforcement methods are they going to use to ensure that the 10 illegal immigrants are going to pay for insurance? Most are not going to pay. Are emergency rooms going to start turning them away because they didn't pay their dues?

If Joe is arguing that taxpayer money can be used to pay for the health costs of illegals, he's a few decades late. If he has a problem with that, that's his business, but his problem lies with health care reforms passed under Reagan, not the plan proposed by Obama.

Is this being addressed in the current health care reform legislation? Not from the Dems.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Which is no different than it is now. Already posted before.

On another note, nothing in the legislation limits the healthcare of pygmy siberian tigers either. Guess that means they're secretly sneaking it in there too.

So where is the reform then? I guess it's the same ol "different but same" routine.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

How many people think the government run health care business is profitable or at least breakeven?

How many people think the government run health care business is good?

What enforcement methods are they going to use to ensure that the 10 illegal immigrants are going to pay for insurance? Most are not going to pay. Are emergency rooms going to start turning them away because they didn't pay their dues?

If Joe is arguing that taxpayer money can be used to pay for the health costs of illegals, he's a few decades late. If he has a problem with that, that's his business, but his problem lies with health care reforms passed under Reagan, not the plan proposed by Obama.

Is this being addressed in the current health care reform legislation? Not from the Dems.

If you are asking what percentage of people approve of Medicare and Medicaid, I don't have an exact number, but it is overwhelmingly positive. (this is one of the main fear points being put out by the GOP, that people will lose their cherished Medicare)

Your point about illegal immigrants has now shifted to a completely different topic. Are we talking about illegals being able to buy into the public insurance plan (as you originally talked about) or have we moved on to free emergency care that is offered to everyone in the US? The hospitals don't turn people away NOW, under current legislation. If you wanted to oppose that, you wouldn't oppose Obama's bill... you would try to repeal the legislation from the 80's.

I don't care if it's addressed in the current legislation (as I don't think it's a problem). Even if I did care about that issue though that would be a reason to pass additional legislation, not oppose this bill.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
How many people think the government run health care business is good?

What enforcement methods are they going to use to ensure that the 10 illegal immigrants are going to pay for insurance? Most are not going to pay. Are emergency rooms going to start turning them away because they didn't pay their dues?

You seem really confused. Seniors overwhelmingly like medicare.

As to "ensuring payment" of illegals, what does that have to do with emergency room care? If a french tourist got in a car accident you don't think an emergency room should care for him because he's not paying into our healthcare system? If the illegals want access to a primary physician and preventative care and pre-natel care and prescription drug discounts, they would have to buy insurance and present proof of insurance when seeking treatment.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Which is no different than it is now. Already posted before.

On another note, nothing in the legislation limits the healthcare of pygmy siberian tigers either. Guess that means they're secretly sneaking it in there too.

So where is the reform then? I guess it's the same ol "different but same" routine.

If you have to ask that, you obviously haven't been paying attention. Not to Obama's plan as outlined on whitehouse.gov, nor the house bill currently being debated.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonbull

How many people think the government run health care business is profitable or at least breakeven?

How many people think the government run health care business is good?

What enforcement methods are they going to use to ensure that the 10 illegal immigrants are going to pay for insurance? Most are not going to pay. Are emergency rooms going to start turning them away because they didn't pay their dues?

If Joe is arguing that taxpayer money can be used to pay for the health costs of illegals, he's a few decades late. If he has a problem with that, that's his business, but his problem lies with health care reforms passed under Reagan, not the plan proposed by Obama.

Is this being addressed in the current health care reform legislation? Not from the Dems.

If you are asking what percentage of people approve of Medicare and Medicaid, I don't have an exact number, but it is overwhelmingly positive. (this is one of the main fear points being put out by the GOP, that people will lose their cherished Medicare)

Your point about illegal immigrants has now shifted to a completely different topic. Are we talking about illegals being able to buy into the public insurance plan (as you originally talked about) or have we moved on to free emergency care that is offered to everyone in the US? The hospitals don't turn people away NOW, under current legislation. If you wanted to oppose that, you wouldn't oppose Obama's bill... you would try to repeal the legislation from the 80's.

I don't care if it's addressed in the current legislation (as I don't think it's a problem). Even if I did care about that issue though that would be a reason to pass additional legislation, not oppose this bill.

Does not shift focus. You want them to buy government run insurance. Why would they when they can still go to the emergency room and still get medical care? The "reform" bill doesn't seem to reform.

 

[GoPackGo]

Link

This is where politics / political correctness fails.

With Obama as President, every negative comment is now "racist"

and they JUST HAD TO bring up the klan.