Somebody forgot to tell Joe this wasn't a town hall

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fact-check, Joe you f'ing douchebag liar:

The statement:

-snip-

Get your facts straight before you open your mouth next time, Joe.

And Fact-Check is full of sh!t.

If you read the bill you'd find any proceedures to prevent illegals from even the credit are as yet undefined. They are to be determined later, so Fact-Check can't letigimately make that claim based on unknowns.

Beside, the Congressional Research Service has already ruled contrary to Fact-Check.

Fern

Kind of confused. Procedures and implementation are usually not in laws, just rules and regulations. You're kind of skewing the argument here. The text clearly states.

individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States

Not to mention really defaming the messenger and not the message.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fact-check, Joe you f'ing douchebag liar:

The statement:

-snip-

Get your facts straight before you open your mouth next time, Joe.

And Fact-Check is full of sh!t.

If you read the bill you'd find any proceedures to prevent illegals from even the credit are as yet undefined. They are to be determined later, so Fact-Check can't letigimately make that claim based on unknowns.

Beside, the Congressional Research Service has already ruled contrary to Fact-Check.

Fern

Kind of confused. Procedures and implementation are usually not in laws, just rules and regulations. You're kind of skewing the argument here. The text clearly states.

individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States

Not to mention really defaming the messenger and not the message.

And with exactly enforcement that inserted phrase is meaning except for political cover.

I defamed their message twice, (1) ruling with no details and (2) CRS report contrary to their finding.

Fern

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: sportage
I love this...
So lets add up.
So far republicans have:
Sarah palin
Joe Wilson
Fox News
Rush

hehehehehe

What happened to Joe the plumber?

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Fern
And with exactly enforcement that inserted phrase is meaning except for political cover.

I defamed their message twice, (1) ruling with no details and (2) CRS report contrary to their finding.

Fern

I don't think enforcement has any place in bills. That's part of the judicial and regulatory bodies. You're going to have to frame your argument better because what I think you're saying really doesn't apply to the bill.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Haven't read the entire thread, but:

Joe Wilson has accepted $244,196 from health care industry lobbyists.

Every politician in D.C., Republican and Democrat has accepted $$ from health care lobbyists :roll: That still has zero impact on the truth behind whether this plan will provide federal resources to illegals. If Obama says he doesn't want illegals to receive benefits, and Joe Wilson also believes they shouldn't receive benefits, how exactly are lobbyists controlling Wilson?

Seriously :roll:

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Haven't read the entire thread, but:

Joe Wilson has accepted $244,196 from health care industry lobbyists.

Every politician in D.C., Republican and Democrat has accepted $$ from health care lobbyists :roll: That still has zero impact on the truth behind whether this plan will provide federal resources to illegals. If Obama says he doesn't want illegals to receive benefits, and Joe Wilson also believes they shouldn't receive benefits, how exactly are lobbyists controlling Wilson?

Seriously :roll:

Yeah, you should seriously tell the lobbyists that what they are doing isn't working since no one cares about free money or pussy.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

*sigh*

This has done *nothing* to change *anything*. Yesterday morning those who love Obamacare did not like Wilson, and those who do not like Obamacare like Wilson. Today those who love Obamacare hate Wilson, and those who do not like Obamacare love Wilson.

Wow, the political landscape has been forever altered in the Democrat's favor :roll:

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Haven't read the entire thread, but:

Joe Wilson has accepted $244,196 from health care industry lobbyists.

Every politician in D.C., Republican and Democrat has accepted $$ from health care lobbyists :roll: That still has zero impact on the truth behind whether this plan will provide federal resources to illegals. If Obama says he doesn't want illegals to receive benefits, and Joe Wilson also believes they shouldn't receive benefits, how exactly are lobbyists controlling Wilson?

Seriously :roll:

Yeah, you should seriously tell the lobbyists that what they are doing isn't working since no one cares about free money or pussy.

We're talking about this one specific situation here. Please try to stay on topic. Lobbyists did not cause this specific situation.

Look, I like when politicians are outed for receiving huge campaign donations from corporations - but those who out them usually do so for purely partisan reasons, usually trying to persuade opinion on a separate topic, which is what I do not agree with.

 

[Craig234]

My position: I don't say it's always inappropriate to do this. In an extreme situation - the President is doing something very harmful and dishonest - I can see it being justified.

But this guy was not only wrong on the issue not justifying it, he was even wrong on the issue.

If Bush gave a speech and said 20 things the Democrats thought were wrong (and they were correct), we don't need them yelling 'you lie' 20 times - or probably even once.

It's really for something very serious to the nation when the political process is failing and disruption of the civility of the process is called for. I can think of very few examples.

It's not justified to simply express disagreement.

Ironically, though, the guy helped make Obama's point - just as he said there are people spreading this myth - a statement often used less than honestly to set up a straw man - this Congressman proved that there actually are such people spreading this myth about illegals getting this benefit, and the news coverage made Obama's point much more publicized than his speech did.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Engineer
LOL @ the dude from SC. He did nothing except unify the Dems, even if only a little more than they were. Fail.

Delusions of grandeur.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

According to Miller's site, ActBlue.com, Miller has raised over $300,000 since Thursday afternoon. Almost half of the money has come from readers of the progressive blog Daily Kos, who created a fundraising page called "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama."

Actually, are no liberals here disturbed about the future of this country when people from California, Oregon, Washington, etc. are able to greatly influence a congressional race in South Carolina?

It goes both ways, just because you libs hate conservatives, doesn't make that right, because there will be people across the country also contributing to Republican campaigns out of their districts. :roll:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fact-check, Joe you f'ing douchebag liar:

The statement:

-snip-

Get your facts straight before you open your mouth next time, Joe.

And Fact-Check is full of sh!t.

If you read the bill you'd find any proceedures to prevent illegals from even the credit are as yet undefined. They are to be determined later, so Fact-Check can't letigimately make that claim based on unknowns.

Beside, the Congressional Research Service has already ruled contrary to Fact-Check.

Fern

And now politifact weighs in! Or are they full of shit too? I can give you about 5 or 6 other independent fact checks that also say it's false. Are they full of shit? How many people do you require telling you that you're wrong before you accept reality?

Now because a bill says people are ineligible for something but doesn't specify a method for enforcement (as is the case in many bills, where they leave it up to the agencies to decide the best way... you know because that's actually good governance), they are somehow allowing illegal immigrants to have these benefits.

There's no pleasing you, you have specific language staring you in the face and it's not good enough. Then again, Obama's birth certificate wasn't good enough for you either.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Engineer
LOL @ the dude from SC. He did nothing except unify the Dems, even if only a little more than they were. Fail.

Delusions of grandeur.

So you don't think that he added any unity to the Dems (even a little as I said above)?

Really?

The yahoo.com story that I linked thinks otherwise (as well as others that I've read today). I guess I'll take delusional for $100 grandeur, Alex.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

According to Miller's site, ActBlue.com, Miller has raised over $300,000 since Thursday afternoon. Almost half of the money has come from readers of the progressive blog Daily Kos, who created a fundraising page called "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama."

Actually, are no liberals here disturbed about the future of this country when people from California, Oregon, Washington, etc. are able to greatly influence a congressional race in South Carolina?

It goes both ways, just because you libs hate conservatives, doesn't make that right, because there will be people across the country also contributing to Republican campaigns out of their districts. :roll:

Are you suggesting we limit campaign donations over state lines? That's a pretty big restriction on free speech, but if you're down with restricting monetary expressions of free speech I can send you a whole pile of legislation for campaign finance reform that I'm sure you'll want to endorse.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

According to Miller's site, ActBlue.com, Miller has raised over $300,000 since Thursday afternoon. Almost half of the money has come from readers of the progressive blog Daily Kos, who created a fundraising page called "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama."

Actually, are no liberals here disturbed about the future of this country when people from California, Oregon, Washington, etc. are able to greatly influence a congressional race in South Carolina?

It goes both ways, just because you libs hate conservatives, doesn't make that right, because there will be people across the country also contributing to Republican campaigns out of their districts. :roll:

I'll happily limit out of district donations, if corporate donations will eliminated as well.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Then again, Obama's birth certificate wasn't good enough for you either.

I'm arguing with a birther moderator? Run to the hills, run for your life.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Haven't read the entire thread, but:

Joe Wilson has accepted $244,196 from health care industry lobbyists.

Every politician in D.C., Republican and Democrat has accepted $$ from health care lobbyists :roll: That still has zero impact on the truth behind whether this plan will provide federal resources to illegals. If Obama says he doesn't want illegals to receive benefits, and Joe Wilson also believes they shouldn't receive benefits, how exactly are lobbyists controlling Wilson?

Seriously :roll:

Yeah, you should seriously tell the lobbyists that what they are doing isn't working since no one cares about free money or pussy.

We're talking about this one specific situation here. Please try to stay on topic. Lobbyists did not cause this specific situation.

Look, I like when politicians are outed for receiving huge campaign donations from corporations - but those who out them usually do so for purely partisan reasons, usually trying to persuade opinion on a separate topic, which is what I do not agree with.

Oh shut the fuck up you stupid twat, lobbying does indeed work and it doesn't matter if it's pussy for contract or contributions for a campaign, it WILL affect decision making.

How about if i started accepting money from some groups, like the poppy growing war lords, think that'd affect my actions in those areas at the time?

How about Karzai leaving certain areas alone because those who supported him monetarily are there... but yeah, you are right, everywhere in the entire world people work like that except in the US.

Christ...

Anyone getting free money for their endavours will obviously feel in debt to those offering it, that's human fucking nature, you'd feel the same way if i offered to pay for a campaign of yours and needed a favor later. It's the fucking way it works which is why it's illegal in most nations.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

According to Miller's site, ActBlue.com, Miller has raised over $300,000 since Thursday afternoon. Almost half of the money has come from readers of the progressive blog Daily Kos, who created a fundraising page called "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama."

Actually, are no liberals here disturbed about the future of this country when people from California, Oregon, Washington, etc. are able to greatly influence a congressional race in South Carolina?

It goes both ways, just because you libs hate conservatives, doesn't make that right, because there will be people across the country also contributing to Republican campaigns out of their districts. :roll:

Are you suggesting we limit campaign donations over state lines? That's a pretty big restriction on free speech, but if you're down with restricting monetary expressions of free speech I can send you a whole pile of legislation for campaign finance reform that I'm sure you'll want to endorse.

It's not a restriction on free speech at all, they can donate however much they want to their representative. A congressman is in place to represent his district, not another district :roll:

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Fern
And Fact-Check is full of sh!t.

If you read the bill you'd find any proceedures to prevent illegals from even the credit are as yet undefined. They are to be determined later, so Fact-Check can't letigimately make that claim based on unknowns.

Beside, the Congressional Research Service has already ruled contrary to Fact-Check.

Factcheck summary:

President Obama?s prime-time address to Congress and the nation on health care prompted a Republican congressman to shout ?you lie!? Did he? Here?s what we?ve found:


- Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn?t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.

- The president said ?no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.? But the House bill would permit a ?public option? to cover all abortions, and would also permit federal subsidies to be used to purchase private insurance that covers all abortions, a point that raises objections from anti-abortion groups. That?s true despite a technical ban on use of taxpayer dollars to pay for abortion coverage.

- The president repeated his promise that his plan won?t add ?one dime? to the federal deficit. But legislation offered so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

- The president overstated the degree of concentration in the insurance industry. He said that in 34 states the ?insurance market? is controlled by five or fewer companies, but that?s true only of insurance bought by small groups, not the entire ?insurance market.?

- Obama said his plan won?t ?require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.? It?s true that there?s no requirement, but experts say the legislation could induce employers to switch coverage for millions of workers.

So is only the first claim that finds Obama not a liar about illegals full of shit, or are the other 4 claims that find Obama overreached also full of shit?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Oh shut the fuck up you stupid twat, lobbying does indeed work and it doesn't matter if it's pussy for contract or contributions for a campaign, it WILL affect decision making.

Ah, I knew there was a reason I came back to this forum :laugh:

There are two possible outcomes in this situation, (1) Obama is telling the truth and illegals will not receive benefits, or (2) Obama is lying.

Given situation (1) the two sides are in full agreement, lobbyists are not causing a division on the issue between the parties.

Given situation (2) a lobbyist did not pay Wilson anything to make Obama tell a lie.



Oh wait, this is AT P&N, I'm supposed to say nothing and just call you childish names, so, ummm, forget everything I said above, what I really meant to say is that you're a doo-doo head.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Engineer
This has done nothing but help Obama and the Dems on this issue.

According to Miller's site, ActBlue.com, Miller has raised over $300,000 since Thursday afternoon. Almost half of the money has come from readers of the progressive blog Daily Kos, who created a fundraising page called "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama."

Actually, are no liberals here disturbed about the future of this country when people from California, Oregon, Washington, etc. are able to greatly influence a congressional race in South Carolina?

It goes both ways, just because you libs hate conservatives, doesn't make that right, because there will be people across the country also contributing to Republican campaigns out of their districts. :roll:

I'll happily limit out of district donations, if corporate donations will eliminated as well.

And I will agree with you 100%

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Oh shut the fuck up you stupid twat, lobbying does indeed work and it doesn't matter if it's pussy for contract or contributions for a campaign, it WILL affect decision making.

Ah, I knew there was a reason I came back to this forum :laugh:

There are two possible outcomes in this situation, (1) Obama is telling the truth and illegals will not receive benefits, or (2) Obama is lying.

Given situation (1) the two sides are in full agreement, lobbyists are not causing a division on the issue between the parties.

Given situation (2) a lobbyist did not pay Wilson anything to make Obama tell a lie.



Oh wait, this is AT P&N, I'm supposed to say nothing and just call you childish names, so, ummm, forget everything I said above, what I really meant to say is that you're a doo-doo head.

Son, i don't give a sheit, i'm English so your idiotic partisanship does not apply to me, i pointed out a wrong and instead of quoting my entire post and discussing it you quoted one part and tried your worst to give your idotic spin a whirl.

The truth is in the text, the benefits they get now stays, nothing is added. Any retard who can't see that should pack up his computer and send it back to the shop with a notice saying "i don't understand computah".

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Dems booed Bush during State of Union Speech...

The hypocrisy from the left is very apparent...

You were saying? Oh wait...it's "patriotic" and "right" if liberals dissent and disrupt, but it's "obstructionism" or "inappropriate" if conservatives do.

I support any heckling of Bush. I also think it's fine that Obama was heckled. Maybe impolite but it's still a free country right?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Fact-check, Joe you f'ing douchebag liar:

The statement:

-snip-

Get your facts straight before you open your mouth next time, Joe.

And Fact-Check is full of sh!t.

If you read the bill you'd find any proceedures to prevent illegals from even the credit are as yet undefined. They are to be determined later, so Fact-Check can't letigimately make that claim based on unknowns.

Beside, the Congressional Research Service has already ruled contrary to Fact-Check.

Fern

And so? So they're undefined, that hardly makes Obama a liar now does it? No. No, it doesn't.

I think next, we need a fact-checker to check you. I bet he'd find that you're full of shit 99% of the time. At least.

 

[Jaskalas]

If illegals are not kicked out of the country, in mass, then they will undoubtedly benefit from our health care. Why wouldn?t they?