Something I learned last night...

[GTaudiophile]

Yesterday evening, I heard a lecture by the former German Außenminister Joschka Fischer. (Think the German version of Condi Rice.)

For those who do not know, Fischer is a very popular member of Germany's "Green" party and is a renown product of the "1968" generation.

Anyway, he made an interesting point last night:

The EU27 member nations of the European Union have about 500 million inhabitants. The United States has 300 million inhabitants. But the United States consumes twice (2x) as much energy.

The "Green Product" industry such as wind turbines and solar panels is the most rapidly growing industry of Germany's economy at the moment.

Politics and global warming aside, what happened to USA being a leader in new technology innovation? Don't companies here see the green in being green? I am not only talking new wind and solar technologies but simply efficient products.

Time for us to wake up here!

 

[Platypus]

There's no money in it so...

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Platypus
There's no money in it so...

Germany can't export enough of such technologies. What do you mean there is no money? Maybe not as much domestically but surely internationally.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Don't companies here see the green in being green?

yes, they do. if you don't see it, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[jhayx7]

Haven't you learned anything? Big oil company lobbiests run D.C..

Why do you think Bush has a lot of ties to oil companies?


(This might head into P&N)

 

[j00fek]

it wont happen

 

[StevenYoo]

Originally posted by: jhayx7
Haven't you learned anything? Big oil company lobbiests run D.C..

Why do you think Bush has a lot of ties to oil companies?

Big Oil runs america.

 

[spaceman]

Originally posted by: StevenYoo

Originally posted by: jhayx7
Haven't you learned anything? Big oil company lobbiests run D.C..

Why do you think Bush has a lot of ties to oil companies?

Big Oil runs america.

it takes alot of oil to run america.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Don't companies here see the green in being green?

yes, they do. if you don't see it, you haven't been paying attention.

Yah, I guess GTaudiophile hasn't been noticing what is going on here the last year+...

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Platypus
There's no money in it so...

Germany can't export enough of such technologies. What do you mean there is no money? Maybe not as much domestically but surely internationally.

Why would US automakers want to produce a clean efficient engine that never needs repair and has no reliance on oil when they can continue to make the same garbage that not only lines the pockets of their mechanics to continually repair said prodcuts, the oil companies and their own?

Why would air conditioning companies use products other than Freon which over time breaks down equipment and requires more money to replace/repair when there is money to be made in purposefully inefficient equipment?

Why would road crews fix roads properly once like in almost every other country when they can do a pisspoor job with shoddy materials and techniques and continue to have their jobs when the same road needs to be repaird again in < 5 years?

 

[sixone]

Do you have any independent confirmation of his claims, or are you taking his word for it?

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

The EU27 member nations of the European Union have about 500 million inhabitants. The United States has 300 million inhabitants. But the United States consumes twice (2x) as much energy.

This is very true, but Europe as a whole is much more densely packed when compared to the US. I lived in Germany for several years, and it's not uncommon to be able to ride a bike just about everywhere. Here in the US, it's nearly impossible to do that in a large city with cars and freeways everywhere, and in smaller cities it's difficult as well when everything is spread out.

Public transportation is also prevalent throughout germany. You can easily get from one town to another at a minimal cost. The only places that really have that in the US are the larger cities. Most medium sized city transport systems are a pure joke and most Europeans don't realize that until they visit the US.


Anyway, just wanted to point that out.

 

[TravisT]

I am admittedly speaking ignorantly as I don't know enough aboue European countries economies to really debate on the issue. But one thing that stands out to me is that we are huge world-wide traders in comparison to European countries, a lot of it having to do with geographical location. As well, it seems a lot of areas are very populated over there, particularly Germany. Is it fair to say that the actual more people you havei n one area the greener things have to get?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Platypus

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Platypus
There's no money in it so...

Germany can't export enough of such technologies. What do you mean there is no money? Maybe not as much domestically but surely internationally.

Why would US automakers want to produce a clean efficient engine that never needs repair and has no reliance on oil when they can continue to make the same garbage that not only lines the pockets of their mechanics to continually repair said prodcuts, the oil companies and their own?

Why would air conditioning companies use products other than Freon which over time breaks down equipment and requires more money to replace/repair when there is money to be made in purposefully inefficient equipment?

Why would road crews fix roads properly once like in almost every other country when they can do a pisspoor job with shoddy materials and techniques and continue to have their jobs when the same road needs to be repaird again in < 5 years?

The auto industry is only one piece of the energy game.

The big oil companies see the future (and it's not oil). They are using their windfall profits to invest in renewables that reap them good PR, tax breaks, and energy. Shell and BP are racing to buy/build/steal as much wind generating capacity as possibe and will be the leading producers. BP also has substantial amounts invested in photovoltaics.

A better example of US industries changing with the times is GE. They produce basically anything energy related (gas turbines, nuclear reactors, water turbines, wind turbines, photovoltaics, etc...) and are always looking for the next thing.

 

[rambow]

america runs on dunkin /thread

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Platypus

Why would US automakers want to produce a clean efficient engine that never needs repair and has no reliance on oil when they can continue to make the same garbage that not only lines the pockets of their mechanics to continually repair said prodcuts, the oil companies and their own?

the US automakers are not in business to line the pockets of oil companies. they are in business for themselves, and investing a ton of money in something they can't recoup their investment on in a short period of time isn't something they can do right now. has toyota even started covering the r&d costs of the hybrid system? i think they're only now getting the variable cost paid for.

hopefully congress doesn't tilt the market by giving tax incentives to one type of energy efficient vehicle while ignoring all the others.

 

[BrownTown]

the whole "fastest growing industry" stuff is bull cr@p btw, they are always doing it in terms of percents and since they are growing from essentially 0 it has a very high percent increase year over year.

 

[Atheus]

I think one of the main reasons for lower overall energy consumption is that of the 27 countries only about 5 or 6 have any really serious economy. Several of them are the new entrants like Bulgaria.

Originally posted by: BrownTown
the whole "fastest growing industry" stuff is bull cr@p btw, they are always doing it in terms of percents and since they are growing from essentially 0 it has a very high percent increase year over year.

What? No one mentioned 'fastest growing industry'... who is supposed to have the fastest growing industry?

 

[Daverino]

This is not at all a fair comparison. The US is much larger in size, geographically, than the EU. Much of the extra 'energy' which the US requires is a reflection on the cost of moving people and goods around in a much larger area. Energy saving tools like mass transit are only applicable in denser urban environments. The US has a much more well developed suburban structure because their's more room to do it. Conceivably, you could reduce the US's energy consumption by packing people into urban centers, but frankly that's not going to happen. Even if you did, the energy cost of moving freight around the country is still much higher in terms of energy consumption than it would be in Europe.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: Platypus
There's no money in it for the oil companies so...

fixed.

 

[Mardeth]

US 80 people /sq mi vs Finland 40 /sq mi and so on. It not really about geographocal as it is about infrastructure. The cheap energy has allowed you to build your infrastructure in a way that isnt energy efficient. Examples: living far from work because the land is cheap farther away and gas doesnt cost much and public transportation has a hard time competing etc. Also youve grown accustomed to the plentiful energy and its hard to let go off those energy demanding luxuries.

 

[FleshLight]

There's a lot more land here. Thus we would need a lot more turbine farms and solar panel farms than ze Germans.

 

[Canun]

Also take into account that some of the EU countries and its inhabitants aren't as technologically advanced (or lazy) as the U.S. We have 2-3 TVs, microwaves, electric garage door openers. It isn't oil or coal industry making the US waste money, it is the consumers.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Atheus
I think one of the main reasons for lower overall energy consumption is that of the 27 countries only about 5 or 6 have any really serious economy. Several of them are the new entrants like Bulgaria.

Originally posted by: BrownTown
the whole "fastest growing industry" stuff is bull cr@p btw, they are always doing it in terms of percents and since they are growing from essentially 0 it has a very high percent increase year over year.

What? No one mentioned 'fastest growing industry'... who is supposed to have the fastest growing industry?

The population of Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK and France is about 300 million.
The population of the US is about 300 million.
If we assume those countries ONLY are the ones using ALL the energy, and discount the other 200 million, they are still using half the energy of the US.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Atheus
What? No one mentioned 'fastest growing industry'... who is supposed to have the fastest growing industry?

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The "Green Product" industry such as wind turbines and solar panels is the most rapidly growing industry of Germany's economy at the moment.

Last I checked "most rapidly growing industry" and "fastest growing industry" were more or less synonymous. I find it especially odd you made that replay given that it had nothing to do with the rest of your post and made no argument against mine...?