Something is draining power

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

98 Grand Am

About a week ago I began having problems relating to lack of power.
Got a new battery, thinking that may be it. Dead in 3 days.
Changed alternator. Charged battery for hour. Died.
Checked all cables connected in relation to such things, they all looked fine, no shorts.
Thoughts may be ignition switch, but uncertain.
Opinions of issue possible solution would be great.

 

[SwiftWind]

Do you have any after market upgrades in this car like audio, lights, etc?

 

[herm0016]

when you say lack of power, you mean not enough voltage to run your lights and such?

make sure all your connections are clean.

 

[janas19]

Like Swift said, is it bone stock or aftermarket?

9/10 this would be the alternator on a stock car. Probably the brushes need to be replaced. Did you check to make sure if the alternator was bad before you replaced it?

 

[LTC8K6]

Brake light switch?

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Do you have any after market upgrades in this car like audio, lights, etc?

Alternator & the 2 batteries. Ended up not going through with putting in a sound system.

when you say lack of power, you mean not enough voltage to run your lights and such?

make sure all your connections are clean.

Yes. Can't even get my key out of the ignition.
That was the last thing we did when checking for shorts.

Did you check to make sure if the alternator was bad before you replaced it?

Uncertain.
After replacing battery & ruling that out, they went & swapped alternator while I was unaware of it. Not sure if they had taken it to get tested. But I was infuriated when they did this without checking with me first.

 

[herm0016]

the key going in and out of the ignition has nothing to do with voltage. that me be the issue.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Oh yea. I had taken multimeter to both batteries & they were at 12v each.
Going to see if alternators were properly tested.

 

[exdeath]

Assuming functional alternator and good condition battery, you are experiencing excessive key off current draw, noticeably weakening the battery overnight?

DMM/DSO + current clamp and/or fuse series adapter and look at current draws with key off until you find the circuit responsible. Most of them should be 0 and manual will specify maximum key off draw on circuits receiving standby power.

DSO instead of a DMM is handy for logging intermittent glitches.

 

[natto fire]

Assuming functional alternator and good condition battery, you are experiencing excessive key off current draw, noticeably weakening the battery overnight?

DMM/DSO + current clamp and/or fuse series adapter and look at current draws with key off until you find the circuit responsible. Most of them should be 0 and manual will specify maximum key off draw on circuits receiving standby power.

DSO instead of a DMM is handy for logging intermittent glitches.

This. Remove fuses to isolate the circuit that is drawing the most amperage. There should be minimal parasitic loads (<500mA?) on some circuits to store memory and other standby functions.

OP: What do you mean by the alternator was changed (which as you noted was pointless without further diagnosis) battery charged and then died? It took another three days? You also are not mentioning how the engine was run or starter use in these days.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Oh yea. I had taken multimeter to both batteries & they were at 12v each.

A fully charged automotive battery should read 12.6 volts. If it's reading 12.0 with no load, it's very weak.

 

[Bartman39]

A fully charged automotive battery should read 12.6 volts. If it's reading 12.0 with no load, it's very weak.

This...^

But also there are a variety of lights that might be a possible issue like the glove box light which is very common, under hood light which is common as well... The less common can be a trunk light or ash tray light...? Would assume you have checked the dome light or any other interior lights...?

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Assuming functional alternator and good condition battery, you are experiencing excessive key off current draw, noticeably weakening the battery overnight?

DMM/DSO + current clamp and/or fuse series adapter and look at current draws with key off until you find the circuit responsible. Most of them should be 0 and manual will specify maximum key off draw on circuits receiving standby power.

DSO instead of a DMM is handy for logging intermittent glitches.

Last time I drove it, It went from fully functional to dead in matter of 15min drive across town.

I had only checked the batteries. Forgot to grab DMM before leaving work for the weekend.

This. Remove fuses to isolate the circuit that is drawing the most amperage. There should be minimal parasitic loads (<500mA?) on some circuits to store memory and other standby functions.

OP: What do you mean by the alternator was changed (which as you noted was pointless without further diagnosis) battery charged and then died? It took another three days? You also are not mentioning how the engine was run or starter use in these days.

Will be doing this soon as I get back to the vehicle.
It took 3 days to kill a new battery.
It charges only a little, but then will die soon after, even while running, as if alternator is not charging battery.
Uncertain what you are asking as to how engine was ran?

A fully charged automotive battery should read 12.6 volts. If it's reading 12.0 with no load, it's very weak.

Hmm. I was just throwing down number in general, forgot what exact .x it was at. Will look into that tonight after work.

But also there are a variety of lights that might be a possible issue like the glove box light which is very common, under hood light which is common as well... The less common can be a trunk light or ash tray light...? Would assume you have checked the dome light or any other interior lights...?

None of the lights are staying on.
I removed my head unit (I wasn't using it anyway) just to take it out of the equation.

Idea that came up over weekend was possible that my alarm system has gone bad & is being a blackhole draining out all the power.
The shop that installed it bullshitted me on explaining it, so I'm not exactly certain about how it's all set up in my car, without a better more experienced eye looking into it.

 

[Bashbelly]

Buy yourself a cheap alternator/battery tester.
Something like this : http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7611...1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1326937797&sr=1-1-catcorr

 

[natto fire]

When you first turn your car on and all the lights self-check, do you have a charging system warning light?

As far as your alarm system drawing enough current to run the battery dead while the car is running would take an immense amount of draw with a healthy alternator.

Earlier in the thread you mentioned changing the alternator, did you ever get alternator tested? Using a multimeter, check to make sure you have no resistance from the alternator case to directly on the negative battery post.

As far as the phantom load, I personally wouldn't even touch the alarm system until I properly isolated the circuit that was draining the battery. At this point though, it seems like we don't know for sure if it is a phantom load killing your battery, or simply draining from poor/no output from the charging system while running.

 

[SandEagle]

are the positive terminal connectors loose? had a similar issue and tightened the connectors and everything was fine.

 

[5150MyU]

It took 3 days to kill a new battery.

It seems you have a parsitic draw as Captain Howdy has stated.

It charges only a little

If you are just jumping the battery to start it -don't expect the alternator to do the rest-it's not really made to recharge a battery.

Current Clamp will solve it most likely-learn how to use it and start with the MAXI-FUSES under the hood.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Check your alternator. The battery is used to store the current it gains. To get it starting you will sip the battery then the alternator will get to work. If its not doing its job it means your are running everything off the battery and the alternator is not creating a current to store which you need for the lights and so on

 

[Sluggo]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133226

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Mechanic who stated he was going to come check it out has been complete flake about it, so going to try find some other mechanic to come out & check it.

All fuses were 0 when I took DMM to them.
I pulled out panel under glovebox where I was informed that alarm module was installed. But I don't have the experienced analytic eye to understand what I'm looking at, or what I'd have to do to remove it from the system. Was hoping it would have been something simple as disconnecting it, but from speaking to someone was that it was probably spliced into the existing wiring is where I'd have absolutely no business messing with myself, without a significant amount more experience.

 

[5150MyU]

Sluggo posted an excellent link-really a must read if you are not familiar with parasitic draws.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

If it is a parasitic draw and not some issue with the alt then buy one of those battery terminal switches to use in the meantime until you get it sorted...

 

[MiataNC]

If driving the car kills the battery, your alternator/regulator/rectifier is the problem.

While driving the alternator should be providing all of the power for the electrical systems, and at the same time charging the battery back to fully after cranking to start.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Sluggo posted an excellent link-really a must read if you are not familiar with parasitic draws.

Yea was a good read. May not have completely comprehended it in full, but yea.

What information I've been gathering from posts here, I've passed on word to others who may have better idea about it. So suggestions have been appreciated.
Without having a skilled/experienced somebody around to look into the issue, I've been stuck at a wall.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Finally someone family-acquainted came out & looked at it. First thing he noticed, was the line running from front to back battery appeared as if it was installed by a retard.
Shop that did that, gave me a hassle altogether. I was expecting them to run cable through interior rather than exterior. Then wanted to charge me even more for doing what they should have done in the first place. Pretty much told them to go fuck themselves & never went back.
Then every mechanic who looked at, or worked on my car after that, always pointed out that it was likely I'd have issues relating to that further down the line if it wasn't taken care of & corrected.

Anyway, dude disconnected that power cable from the system & now it's running & charging again.
I figured it was something an experienced analytic eye would see as a simple fix.

Thanks for the input & advice.