Something is happening with Baldur's Gate! *Update* Ipad *cough*

[sigurros81]

Good, and I hope you enjoy it.

It's just the very slow pacing and large game area combined with the sometimes very tricky battles don't really suit casual gaming.

That's a pretty dumb statement. Why does playing games on IOS automatically mean it's casual? I for one am excited for developers to embrace the tablet device as a serious gaming platform, and BG is the initial step in that direction.

 

[Mopetar]

If they didn't make enough out of the originals to make BG3 I can't see them making it now.

It's a different team, that was only a part of Black Isle. Just because some people at the company wanted to make it, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone (or more importantly the management) did. These are the people who always wanted to make another game, but probably couldn't because they needed to work on a new franchise or left the company for something else.

It's just the very slow pacing and large game area combined with the sometimes very tricky battles don't really suit casual gaming.

Does being on a tablet automatically make a game casual?

I honestly don't think it does, and really casual just gets thrown around a lot as a pejorative term to mean 'something I dislike'. In my opinion a casual gamer is just someone who plays games casually, in that they can't dedicate a lot of time to them. They might tend to gravitate more towards games that don't require a lot of involvement, but that doesn't preclude them from enjoying other types of games that require more of a commitment. The only difference is that it might take them months to get through the game instead of weeks.

Similarly, hardcore seems to get used to mean someone who just spends a lot of time playing games. That's not hardcore, that's just a lot of free time on your hands that you happen to dedicate to gaming. Hardcore is someone doing speed runs, min-maxing in some capacity to break the game, or just otherwise mastering the game to the extent that they can outplay almost anyone else at it.

Honestly, I'm excited that they're porting the game to tablets (There's going to be an Android version as well so it's not just an iOS thing) as hopefully that will help drive interest in games with more depth. The only games I've actually paid money for on my iPad have been ports. Even though they tend to be more expensive than other games, the amount of content that they provide is definitely worth the money.

 

[WelshBloke]

That's a pretty dumb statement. Why does playing games on IOS automatically mean it's casual? I for one am excited for developers to embrace the tablet device as a serious gaming platform, and BG is the initial step in that direction.

Why is it dumb? I think you're going to be in a huge minority of people who are going to have the time to put into this on a tablet. Which I guess doesn't really matter unless you're banking on this funding the next BG.

Honesty wait until you've tried it.

 

[sigurros81]

It's a different team, that was only a part of Black Isle. Just because some people at the company wanted to make it, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone (or more importantly the management) did. These are the people who always wanted to make another game, but probably couldn't because they needed to work on a new franchise or left the company for something else.



Does being on a tablet automatically make a game casual?

I honestly don't think it does, and really casual just gets thrown around a lot as a pejorative term to mean 'something I dislike'. In my opinion a casual gamer is just someone who plays games casually, in that they can't dedicate a lot of time to them. They might tend to gravitate more towards games that don't require a lot of involvement, but that doesn't preclude them from enjoying other types of games that require more of a commitment. The only difference is that it might take them months to get through the game instead of weeks.

Similarly, hardcore seems to get used to mean someone who just spends a lot of time playing games. That's not hardcore, that's just a lot of free time on your hands that you happen to dedicate to gaming. Hardcore is someone doing speed runs, min-maxing in some capacity to break the game, or just otherwise mastering the game to the extent that they can outplay almost anyone else at it.

Honestly, I'm excited that they're porting the game to tablets (There's going to be an Android version as well so it's not just an iOS thing) as hopefully that will help drive interest in games with more depth. The only games I've actually paid money for on my iPad have been ports. Even though they tend to be more expensive than other games, the amount of content that they provide is definitely worth the money.

:thumbsup:

 

[WelshBloke]

... In my opinion a casual gamer is just someone who plays games casually, in that they can't dedicate a lot of time to them. They might tend to gravitate more towards games that don't require a lot of involvement, but that doesn't preclude them from enjoying other types of games that require more of a commitment. The only difference is that it might take them months to get through the game instead of weeks. ..

BG doesn't really work in small periods of gaming. You can spend an hour or so just wandering a map with nothing happening. That's not really conducive to picking up and play gaming.

 

[thespyder]

It's a different team, that was only a part of Black Isle. Just because some people at the company wanted to make it, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone (or more importantly the management) did. These are the people who always wanted to make another game, but probably couldn't because they needed to work on a new franchise or left the company for something else.

I think you miss the point. All of them, including the team at Overhaul games, are in it to make money. If they don't make enough money after expenses are taken into consideration, they aren't going to just make another one and lose money on it. They may "LOVE" the game. But it is a job. And if no profit, then no BG3. Welshbloke was merely expressing that "Generally speaking" the market size doesn't increase over time, it decreases.

Does being on a tablet automatically make a game casual?

I honestly don't think it does, and really casual just gets thrown around a lot as a pejorative term to mean 'something I dislike'. In my opinion a casual gamer is just someone who plays games casually, in that they can't dedicate a lot of time to them. They might tend to gravitate more towards games that don't require a lot of involvement, but that doesn't preclude them from enjoying other types of games that require more of a commitment. The only difference is that it might take them months to get through the game instead of weeks.

Similarly, hardcore seems to get used to mean someone who just spends a lot of time playing games. That's not hardcore, that's just a lot of free time on your hands that you happen to dedicate to gaming. Hardcore is someone doing speed runs, min-maxing in some capacity to break the game, or just otherwise mastering the game to the extent that they can outplay almost anyone else at it.

Honestly, I'm excited that they're porting the game to tablets (There's going to be an Android version as well so it's not just an iOS thing) as hopefully that will help drive interest in games with more depth. The only games I've actually paid money for on my iPad have been ports. Even though they tend to be more expensive than other games, the amount of content that they provide is definitely worth the money.

and again, I think that you are missing the point. The term "Casual" gamer is not in reference to "Us and them" mentality. It isn't "The enemy camp". It speaks to gamers who don't generally go in to a whole lot of customization and micro-management. They generally don't want a game that requires hours and hours to get into a game or loads of rules and choices in just picking out what character to play. And generally, when a game is simplified, it is to accommodate more 'Casual Gamer' playing style.

Add to that the fact that tablet gaming is "Usually" associated with games that you can sit and play for 5-10 minutes or even up to an hour and then jump out. BG series isn't generally like that. Please note I am saying "GENERALLY". Yes, it is possible to play 10 minutes and get out, but the vast majority of fans of the game are looking to get lost in hours and hours of game play. And yes, there are tablet gamers that do like that type of thing and want to play it on a mobile device. However, the cross section is probably pretty small.

Or at least theoretically. the actual sales numbers will tell the tale. Sure there are hard core gamers that have and play games on tablets. And sure there are casual gamers that may enjoy something as in depth as BG. And maybe there is a larger market for BG given the inclusion of Casual gamers now than there was 15 years ago. It just doesn't seem likely given current trends. And this is represented by what Overhaul games has said. that this is a test to see if it is marketable. And that only based on the sales of BG:EE will there be any decision made to continue to BG2 (which may actually have already been made) and BG3 or the IWD series.

There are skeptics out there. I am one. but I am hopeful. Time will tell.

 

[surfsatwerk]

BG doesn't really work in small periods of gaming. You can spend an hour or so just wandering a map with nothing happening. That's not really conducive to picking up and play gaming.

That's after you spend an hour organizing your bags. I don't trust a wizard with too many blue pots in their bags.

 

[Red Storm]

BG doesn't really work in small periods of gaming. You can spend an hour or so just wandering a map with nothing happening. That's not really conducive to picking up and play gaming.

While I agree that a lot of mobile games are like this, why exactly are we complaining that someone is trying to buck the trend and put a full length, engaging game out on mobile devices? This is fantastic stuff and will hopefully usher in more games that go beyond the "Simple Flash Game" mentality that almost everyone has used thus far.

 

[Mopetar]

BG doesn't really work in small periods of gaming. You can spend an hour or so just wandering a map with nothing happening. That's not really conducive to picking up and play gaming.

If I have an hour of time each day and that's the kind of experience I want out of a game, what's the problem? You miss my point that the inability to invest time in a game doesn't necessarily mean I want a shallow experience.

I don't have anywhere near as much time to play games as I used to, but that doesn't mean that I don't want the same types of experiences.

I think you miss the point. All of them, including the team at Overhaul games, are in it to make money.

No, I didn't miss any points. I know exactly how it works and I don't have a problem with that. However, I do have the opportunity to vote with my wallet such that I might get something I want. Any individual contribution is utterly worthless against the whole, so even if I were to buy the tablet version of the game, my contribution is minuscule as soon as another 100 or so people have also bought it.

However, I'd like to see another BG game, so I don't have a problem contributing, although I'll probably get it for the PC as I'd want to see more information about the intra-game character porting on the iPad before I'd buy. Even if a whole lot of people buy from them, there still might not be a BG3. Porting old content is a hell of a lot easier than creating new stuff. However, it's just an added bonus from my perspective. If it actually comes to pass, all the better. If not, they could probably raise the funds from doing a Kickstarter.

and again, I think that you are missing the point. The term "Casual" gamer is not in reference to "Us and them" mentality. It isn't "The enemy camp". It speaks to gamers who don't generally go in to a whole lot of customization and micro-management. They generally don't want a game that requires hours and hours to get into a game or loads of rules and choices in just picking out what character to play. And generally, when a game is simplified, it is to accommodate more 'Casual Gamer' playing style.

But I think that it comes down to that (used in an 'us vs. them', etc. meaning). Most of the time you hear it, it's mean to imply someone only interested in some type of nascent game, and I don't think that's a good description. Some of that probably stems from the fact that a lot of so called casual games are meant to appeal to people who didn't game before. But I think it's just a bad way to describe those games. Just call them games that can be played in 5 minute stretches.

Add to that the fact that tablet gaming is "Usually" associated with games that you can sit and play for 5-10 minutes or even up to an hour and then jump out.

Which is what I think sucks about most of them. I want something with more depth, and that's somewhat hard to find on tablets.

BG series isn't generally like that. Please note I am saying "GENERALLY". Yes, it is possible to play 10 minutes and get out, but the vast majority of fans of the game are looking to get lost in hours and hours of game play.

It isn't like that at all. You really need at least an hour to do much of anything of consequence in a game like that. And that's fine. It can still be a casual game. It just means that it will take several months of hour-long play sessions to get through, rather than a few weeks of longer sessions.

And yes, there are tablet gamers that do like that type of thing and want to play it on a mobile device. However, the cross section is probably pretty small.

I'm not one to buy into the notion that tablets will completely erase PCs, at least not in the short term or until tablets evolve beyond their current state, but at some point there's going to be a huge shift and tablets are going to be more than capable of providing an excellent experience. Hell, they already can, but the content just isn't there.

Eventually that cross-section is going to become a lot larger and game developers are going to need to move into that space.

There are skeptics out there. I am one. but I am hopeful. Time will tell.

Yeah, it's going to be a difficult transition, but it needs to happen. Perhaps this isn't the game or company to do it and make everyone else jump on the bandwagon, but I'm hopeful, mostly because I want to see better tablet games.

While I agree that a lot of mobile games are like this, why exactly are we complaining that someone is trying to buck the trend and put a full length, engaging game out on mobile devices? This is fantastic stuff and will hopefully usher in more games that go beyond the "Simple Flash Game" mentality that almost everyone has used thus far.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[sigurros81]

While I agree that a lot of mobile games are like this, why exactly are we complaining that someone is trying to buck the trend and put a full length, engaging game out on mobile devices? This is fantastic stuff and will hopefully usher in more games that go beyond the "Simple Flash Game" mentality that almost everyone has used thus far.

Exactly, these scrubs saying serious games like BG don't belong in 'casual gaming' devices like tablets are idiots. Any self-respecting gamer would at the very least be enthusiastic that developers are bucking the trend and support the tablet devices as a serious gaming platform.

 

[thespyder]

If I have an hour of time each day and that's the kind of experience I want out of a game, what's the problem? You miss my point that the inability to invest time in a game doesn't necessarily mean I want a shallow experience.

I don't have anywhere near as much time to play games as I used to, but that doesn't mean that I don't want the same types of experiences.

I think the point that you aren't taking into consideration is that you (and most of us here) are probably the exception and the minority. Time will tell if there are as many of us out there, but generally speaking I like getting lost in a game for several hours. BG is the perfect vehicle for that as it is story driven and has a lot of complicated rules and guidelines. When you get into BG2, it can become EXTREMELY complex and tactical. Something that quite a lot of the gamer community today doesn't generally find interesting.

No, I didn't miss any points. I know exactly how it works and I don't have a problem with that. However, I do have the opportunity to vote with my wallet such that I might get something I want. Any individual contribution is utterly worthless against the whole, so even if I were to buy the tablet version of the game, my contribution is minuscule as soon as another 100 or so people have also bought it.

I think that is GREAT. You are willing to put your money p to vote on more games like this. Not every gamer is like that. And it remains to be seen if there are enough gamers like yourself to actually turn a profit. And that was the point being made. Not that there aren't people who WILL put up the money. But are there enough. And I am extremely skeptical if there are that many people who will put up enough money to support a highly complex and tactical game made to fit a tablet (a platform that 'In General' is more commonly used for less complex game types).

My EX always claimed to be a 'gamer'. To her, being a gamer meant playing Mario or Sonic or Bejewelled. I tried to get her to play Diablo 2 one time and it was too complex for her. Not that she didn't have a valid right to be called a 'Gamer', but just a very different kind of gamer than I. And if she couldn't handle the complexities of Diablo 2, there was NO WAY she as going to get BG. I'd bet there are a whole lot more 'gamers' like her that have tablets to play on than gamers like me. And if they are more interested in complex games, I bet they have laptops and the know how to get BG to run on it instead of buying it again (for more money). Just a guess on my part, but...

However, I'd like to see another BG game, so I don't have a problem contributing, although I'll probably get it for the PC as I'd want to see more information about the intra-game character porting on the iPad before I'd buy. Even if a whole lot of people buy from them, there still might not be a BG3. Porting old content is a hell of a lot easier than creating new stuff. However, it's just an added bonus from my perspective. If it actually comes to pass, all the better. If not, they could probably raise the funds from doing a Kickstarter.

Absolutely the point being made. Will there be enough gamers willing to shell out money to have a 15 year old complex and strategic game to run on a mobile platform. And has already been said, this isn't even unique as you can already get (provided you can tinker) exactly this product for less money and for the mobile platforms.

As far as Kickstarter, the exact same issue exists. If this project doesn't bear fruit through this project, no one is going to try and do a Kickstarter project for a game that isn't going to make any money. At least no investors will. Enthusiasts will, but not people looking to turn a profit. The point I tried to make before was, desire to have a BG3 is AWESOME. But unless there is a profit to be made, it isn't going to happen. And You or me wanting it won't change that.

But I think that it comes down to that (used in an 'us vs. them', etc. meaning). Most of the time you hear it, it's mean to imply someone only interested in some type of nascent game, and I don't think that's a good description. Some of that probably stems from the fact that a lot of so called casual games are meant to appeal to people who didn't game before. But I think it's just a bad way to describe those games. Just call them games that can be played in 5 minute stretches.

It is sad to say, but a vast majority of 'Casual gamers' ARE only looking for 5-10 minute time wasters like Bejewelled or Angry Birds. But they have disposable cash as well. And from the publishers perspective, if they can bring some of them on board, that is more money for them. They certainly aren't going to ignore that segment. And in fact, since it is larger than the hard core gamers, they actually court them. It's a fact of life.

 

[sigurros81]

Why is there even a debate on how people should or should not play their game.

 

[thespyder]

Why is there even a debate on how people should or should not play their game.

Who is debating how people should or shouldn't play the game?

I think the debate is, are there enough players who like to play complex and strategic games like BG/BG2 that also play on a tablet and that don't have a way to get the original game to work on such a device.

Not to point fingers at one group or anther. That would be pointless.

 

[WelshBloke]

Who is debating how people should or shouldn't play the game?

I think the debate is, are there enough players who like to play complex and strategic games like BG/BG2 that also play on a tablet and that don't have a way to get the original game to work on such a device.

Not to point fingers at one group or anther. That would be pointless.

What worries me is that I just think that BG is supremely unsuited to tablets and that if it doesn't work will that put off developers from making complex games that suit the platform.

 

[thespyder]

What worries me is that I just think that BG is supremely unsuited to tablets and that if it doesn't work will that put off developers from making complex games that suit the platform.

I share your concerns 100%.

Let's hope we are both proven wrong.

 

[exar333]

I share your concerns 100%.

Let's hope we are both proven wrong.

Have you guys used a tablet or played BG?!

It's point, click. Point click. Move, explore the screen, and engage enemies. It should work great for battles. Pausing the battles and choosing attack vectors and spells will be great. Inventory management will be great too.

The only thing I can think of that will could be a negative will be shortcuts. You will need to use the pre-fab weapon slots and spell-slots. Otherwise, it should be fantastic. The ipad screen will be really nice too. As long as they nail the touch interaction, I am stoked.

 

[exar333]

I do consider myself a 'hardcore' gamer, even after all these years. From many of these comments, it seems that people are afraid that people will be playing 'real' games on the iPad.

I actually don't own an iPad (my wife does) but I love to use it for web browsing and come casual games like Angry Birds (I know, I know) and have no problem sitting and playing through the entire AB in Space or AB Star Wars for hours on end, start to finish. Why would BG be any different than curling-up on your couch with a controller all day or reclining behind your computer for a weekend?

I travel for work a lot now, and I am SO excited to 'borrow' :sneaky: my wife's iPad for traveling. It's not easy to enjoy playing most games while on a plane (for example) but I can't wait to rock some BG on a cross-country flight. I can throw it in my briefcase and play at the hotel easily too, and not have to bring an extra laptop with me.

I hate using Macs honesetly, but the convenience to use both my wife's iPad or Macbook pro to play this game will be great. Can't wait to play through this game series again.

If I only had this to bring with me back when I was in school.

 

[WelshBloke]

Have you guys used a tablet or played BG?!

Yes to both.

Also played BG on a tablet.

 

[thespyder]

Have you guys used a tablet or played BG?!

Have you read the thread or our concerns? Because your comment has nothing to do with them.

Neither of us is saying that the game can't be played on a tablet, nor that it is not fun to do so. Please read before posting. Thanks.

 

[sigurros81]

Have you read the thread or our concerns? Because your comment has nothing to do with them.

Neither of us is saying that the game can't be played on a tablet, nor that it is not fun to do so. Please read before posting. Thanks.

BG doesn't really work in small periods of gaming. You can spend an hour or so just wandering a map with nothing happening. That's not really conducive to picking up and play gaming.

If they didn't make enough out of the originals to make BG3 I can't see them making it now.

All said, as much as I loved them (and I own all the bioware isometric games and expansions) they are more suited to sitting at your desk playing on a PC than pick up and put down play on a tablet.

Hmm. I find it hilarious how you scrubs make it sound like your opinions are facts. Who put you in charge to say what is fun and what is not.

 

[WelshBloke]

Hmm. I find it hilarious how you scrubs make it sound like your opinions are facts. Who put you in charge to say what is fun and what is not.

I find it hilarious that you can't express yourself without calling other people scrubs or idiots but there you go...

 

[sigurros81]

I find it hilarious that you can't express yourself without calling other people scrubs or idiots but there you go...

So what I'm saying is not true because I called you scrubs names.

 

[preslove]

Still waiting on the damned ipad app.

 

[darkewaffle]

This thread is silly. Also judging from my friends Vent comments getting multiplayer to work correctly is nearly impossible currently lol.

 

[thespyder]

Hmm. I find it hilarious how you scrubs make it sound like your opinions are facts. Who put you in charge to say what is fun and what is not.

I've said nothing but opinion. I expressed my OPINION that there MAY not be enough consumers to make this a viable financial venture.

I said NOTHING about it being fun (or not). I did refute that someone else claimed that I was saying it was not fun (which you cleverly highlighted, yet completely failed to comprehend the context or meaning). Or it being something that some consumers might be interested in. Please PLEASE read before posting. lest you make yourself look as foolish as you are trying to make others look.

So what I'm saying is not true because I called you scrubs names.

No. What your saying is not true because you didn't read or comprehend the quotes (at least mine) you used as evidence to support you calling someone names.

And my stance is not anything that Overhaul hasn't said themselves. They are concerned that this will not turn the profit that they anticipate. That is why they didn't initially try to get the rights to BG2 or the IWD games. it was a test. Now, it looks like they have since modified their stance and purportedly are gearing up for BG2, but even that isn't 'Confirmed' that I am aware of.

At the end of the day, it is great that there is interest in the series again. I have high hopes that it will go the distance to BG3 (and beyond). I suspect that there are some potential stumbling blocks in the way. But I think seeing the interest is great.

I just wish people would actually read instead of spewing bile on anyone that they see posting.