Something is wrong in the black community...

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: peonyu
Thats stupid. You cant have a realistic survey if you dont include the entire population. Like i said, racist.

If a survey says that blacks are disproportionately represented in prisons, then it's obvious that either the survey is racist or that the police who did the arresting are racist.

Or Blacks are committing more crimes.

One of the rare times Moonie goes straight to fact.

Don't you mean one of the rare times you were able to keep up since the point was so simple.

I'm going to have to go with Moonie, on this one. Most of his posts are satirical if not sarcastic, but are true none the less.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: peonyu
Whites are disproportionately represented to, thats my point.

The survey makes a false statement saying whites are 77% of the population [by purposely dis-cluding latinos to scew the article].

they arn't being racist or "dis-cluding" Latinos! read the quote i posted above:

the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

they call the ones with Spanish blood white, the ones with African blood black, and few Asian blooded Latinos are listed as Asian.

 

[peonyu]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: peonyu
they call the ones with Spanish blood white, the ones with African blood black, and few Asian blooded Latinos are listed as Asian.

And how do they do that ? Most of the latinos in america do have a tiny bit of white in them, but very very few of them are full blooded white. So do mexicans get included with the white population in this survey or what, cause they are neither white or black, but do have a tiny bit of white in them.

 

[chess9]

I never thought I'd be proud of a Dari post, but, there you have it.



I'll just have to "listen" more carefully to his posts.

Money for Head Start begun at age 3 would be a good, er, START.

More strong black leaders would be helpful. Unfortunately, when PimP Daddy gets more respect than Colin Powell, one cannot expect black folks to embrace white culture. (Meanwhile, Colin Powell is dissipating his high standing in the public's eyes by continuing to lie for Bush.)

Better health care for black children and mothers would help. Someone needs to tell poor mothers not to put Coca Cola in their baby's bottle. (this is so common it is scary) What happen to formula? Breast feeding? Sheezh.... Nutritional practices in parts of the black community are simply terrible.

Decentralized public housing would help. The notion of building 500 apartments in one place and sticking all the poor people in them is dreadful, and inhumane. Crime rates in such projects are horrendous. In 1967, in a bitter argument against busing (too dangerous for kids because buses have no seatbelts and few other safety devices and belch diesel smoke) by a guy advocating it, I proposed that if housing for poor people were decentralized and integrated into the entire community we wouldn't need busing and we'd need fewer police officers. Cultural pressure can and will do wonders for all of us.

But, I really don't have anything new to offer and would love to hear some creative new proposals.

-Robert

 

[SherEPunjab]

quite frankly, i think we all know this. statistics or not, anyone who has lived in this country for more than 5 years is aware of it. of course there are tons of factors involved, which i dont think i will address, but i will say that while violent crime is horrible, i think that white collar crime, corruption, and embezzlement is in many ways, far worse.

I am not aware of any studies on this subject, but I think its fair to say that over hundred thousand american jobs have been lost in the past 2 years due to illegal business practices/greed/corruption. Enron was 40,000 to start with, Nortel, and El Paso energy are other examples that I know of. If the person who lost his/her job was a head of family, that means the kids, and wife/husband will suffer big time. it could lead to splits in the family, depression, alcoholism, crime, you name it. The side effects of unemployment are great.

Unfortunately, many of these stories do not make the headlines, nor do we know if the police are actively involved in cracking down on 'white collar' crime. Perhaps the public does not care, perhaps the media does not think these stories are 'juicy' or 'interesting' enough, perhaps toes cannot be stepped on (political connections).

But to me, they pose a far larger threat in the sense that they are not crimes that affect people 1 on 1, rather maybe 1 on 1,000 or so.

 

[peonyu]

White people do most of the biggest crimes, like Enron...a Black person never would have done something as huge as that. If you add up the money stolen just from Enron alone its probably more money stolen than what black criminals have stolen in the last five years combined.

And then theres Bush stealing the Oil in Iraq...sheesh.

 

[chess9]

SherePunjab and Peonyu:

Both of you make excellent points, though I doubt the damage done by Enron is as bad as what the black community has done to itself. No one died, other than by suicide, at the hands of Enron execs. Not yet, anyway.

-Robert

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: peonyu
White people do most of the biggest crimes, like Enron...a Black person never would have done something as huge as that. If you add up the money stolen just from Enron alone its probably more money stolen than what black criminals have stolen in the last five years combined.

And then theres Bush stealing the Oil in Iraq...sheesh.

Whites commit most of the white collar crimes but isn't it the case that whites also make up most of the white collar community?

I'd like to see a ratio comparing percentage of crimes commited to percentage of white collar slots filled...by race.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: peonyu

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: peonyu
they call the ones with Spanish blood white, the ones with African blood black, and few Asian blooded Latinos are listed as Asian.

And how do they do that ? Most of the latinos in america do have a tiny bit of white in them, but very very few of them are full blooded white. So do mexicans get included with the white population in this survey or what, cause they are neither white or black, but do have a tiny bit of white in them.

I've seen a lot of blond haired, blue eyed Latinos from Cuba, Mexico, etc..... It all depends on how much native american blood they have in their family tree.

 

[SherEPunjab]

for the record, i do not know peonyu. that being said, i neither support nor go against his statement, except i disagree when he says ' a black would not have done that.' quite frankly, we do not know.

i'm not trying to make comparisons or generalizations, i'm giving food for thought.

Regarding enron, etc. scandals, the guy is obviously right in terms of quantifying how much was stolen - of course white collar crime is much more.

i guess i'm just trying to say ppl don't give that enough attention [to so called "white collar" crime], and that is equally - if not more- devastating to Americans.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: peonyu
White people do most of the biggest crimes, like Enron...a Black person never would have done something as huge as that. If you add up the money stolen just from Enron alone its probably more money stolen than what black criminals have stolen in the last five years combined.

And then theres Bush stealing the Oil in Iraq...sheesh.

 

[Piano Man]

It all has to do with poverty and other social injustices. But God help us if there were ever to be a war on poverty.

 

[Dari]

This is a part of the problem, when cops assume that all black men are criminals. It leaves no room for sympathy, let alone fairness. Unfortunately, this is all too common.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Dari
This is a part of the problem, when cops assume that all black men are criminals. It leaves no room for sympathy, let alone fairness. Unfortunately, this is all too common.

no doubt

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Well clearly white collar criminals have motive and opportunity it's just their opportunities are different from normal criminals (white and black).

As for fixing what's wrong with our communities in general (since low income/poor whites are suffering just as much as browns/blacks):
1) End direct payment welfare (provide vouchers/debit card for food)
2) Provide universal healthcare
3) Provide universal public education starting at age 4 extending through post-secondary
4) Provide universal daycare (or subsidized day care) so parents can work
5) Provide extended day school so kids have somewhere to go other than an empty home or the streets
6) Improve public transportation
7) Tax the crap out of gasoline, 20 inch rims, and anything made out of gold, chrome, or platinum
8) Vigorous enforcement of child support laws . . . absolutely no jail time . . . only Enronesque criminals can pay support from the pen.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Well clearly white collar criminals have motive and opportunity it's just their opportunities are different from normal criminals (white and black).

As for fixing what's wrong with our communities in general (since low income/poor whites are suffering just as much as browns/blacks):
1) End direct payment welfare (provide vouchers/debit card for food)
2) Provide universal healthcare
3) Provide universal public education starting at age 4 extending through post-secondary
4) Provide universal daycare (or subsidized day care) so parents can work
5) Provide extended day school so kids have somewhere to go other than an empty home or the streets
6) Improve public transportation
7) Tax the crap out of gasoline, 20 inch rims, and anything made out of gold, chrome, or platinum
8) Vigorous enforcement of child support laws . . . absolutely no jail time . . . only Enronesque criminals can pay support from the pen.

cool. i see you hit upon education alot. I too think that we here in the u.s. need to improve on this category, ASAP.

btw, I would LOVE to see School Vouchers introduced, so parents have a choice, so any lousey public school teachers will be forced to shapen up. Unfortunately, public school teachers have an uber powerful lobby, and they wouldn't want THAT to happen, jeez, they may actually have to IMPROVE.*

*(not ridiculing all of them, but many are bad. props to the good ones)

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Well clearly white collar criminals have motive and opportunity it's just their opportunities are different from normal criminals (white and black).

As for fixing what's wrong with our communities in general (since low income/poor whites are suffering just as much as browns/blacks):
1) End direct payment welfare (provide vouchers/debit card for food)
2) Provide universal healthcare
3) Provide universal public education starting at age 4 extending through post-secondary
4) Provide universal daycare (or subsidized day care) so parents can work
5) Provide extended day school so kids have somewhere to go other than an empty home or the streets
6) Improve public transportation
7) Tax the crap out of gasoline, 20 inch rims, and anything made out of gold, chrome, or platinum
8) Vigorous enforcement of child support laws . . . absolutely no jail time . . . only Enronesque criminals can pay support from the pen.

How much money will taxpayers have to spend on other people's children? Here in California there is already free education and healthcare for kids, now daycare and extended schools? Tax the crap out of gasoline, gold, chrome and platinum??

I'm sorry but you are coming off as a crackpot. I'll be damned if the taxpayers have to pay for people's children from the cradle to the grave, Jesus. Parents don't need to exercise ANY financial responsibility when it comes to having children? Everything for their kids will be provided by the state? This is ridiculous.

There are already huge taxes on gasoline. As for gold, chrome and platinum, why tax these items? I don't know about chrome but gold and platinum are metals that are commonly used in a LOT of industries. So now when I go to the dentist I am going to have to pay two times as much, four times as much for a gold crown?

Hey I know, we should just put up a sign at the hospital that says: PICK UP YOUR BABY'S FINANCIAL SUPPORT PACKAGE HERE: ALL GOODS AND SERVICES FOR RAISING YOUR KIDS WILL BE PROVIDED BY THE TAXPAYER.

Thank heavens you aren't king of the world.

 

[casey1968]

 

[casey1968]

OK sory bout the blank you know theres one way of looking at all this of all the people in America the ones who really got shafted were the indians... How often is racism about them mentioned? They were the original inhabitants of the US Here comes everyone else killing them off and shunning them to little reservations. Think about it African Americans people at least lived if in slavery people just killed the indians. How many AA suits are filed from them? how often does anyone care about the attitude towards them? I am a quarter N. American

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Vouchers are not the solution but they would have value in communities with excess capacity at good public (or private) schools. Alas, you will not find a single study demonstrating such excess capacity exists at good schools. Granted, voucher proponents rarely bother with such details. Poor administrators should be fired (there's no hope for them). But you cannot just shutter public schools b/c there's no place for those children to go. School systems have to find new adminstrators, train ALL their teachers better, and fire the non-productive ones . . . not to mention learning to ignore the dumbarses on local and state school boards.

As for complaining about the costs of more school, more healthcare, etc. How many prisons has CA built since 1980? How many new colleges or universities? Which form of higher education makes sense to you? You cannot divest the various elements of social support systems. It's akin to having a powerful military but poor military intelligence or having a wonderful Constitution but few in government actually follow it. Strong systems of social support are as close as any nation can get to equal opportunity . . . it's up to the individual to do something with those opportunities.

Unless you plan to regulate childbirth (admittedly, I'm open to the suggestion) then there's no choice but to choose between investment in their success or paying for their future failure. Many will fail to become productive members of society but on balance it's still cheaper than paying for chronic, preventable health conditions, indirect costs of crime, and direct cost of the criminal justice system.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: casey1968
OK sory bout the blank you know theres one way of looking at all this of all the people in America the ones who really got shafted were the indians... How often is racism about them mentioned? They were the original inhabitants of the US Here comes everyone else killing them off and shunning them to little reservations. Think about it African Americans people at least lived if in slavery people just killed the indians. How many AA suits are filed from them? how often does anyone care about the attitude towards them? I am a quarter N. American

News flash, those reservations are now home to casinos that rake in billions of dollars a year.

 

[HardWarrior]

Blacks are much easier to target for a whole host of ?crimes?, being poor and sometimes stupid. We also have a much lower incidence of fighting back tooth-and-nail. When you add to these things to a complete lack of political acumen, you have an ethnic group just screaming to be used as ?War on XXXX? fodder.

 

[0roo0roo]

poor whites also do better in school then middle/upper middle class blacks

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
poor whites also do better in school then middle/upper middle class blacks

Were you addressing what I posted with this or was it a general attempt at sarcasm?

 

[Pliablemoose]

[mightypinkracerantmode]

No justice, no peace.

I'm not black (I should be posting in the polish thread)

I have been working in the worst part of town & dealing with black clientèle (~70-80% of the patients I treat are black) for the last 8 years.

The idea of throwing $ @ education is flawed. AA's feel that by succeeding in school is selling out to white culture, giving the students all brand new Apple notebooks & new classrooms isn't going to change that.

The solution to AA problems lies within the AA community itself. If my family member was on crack, I'd get him help, and if he refused the help, he'd no longer be part of my family, he could no longer attend family functions, etc, they would be shunned, if they had children I would work through the legal system and take the children from them & limit their visitation.

AA culture should be less tolerant of out of wedlock pregnancies.

AA culture should embrace education & self improvement.

AA culture needs to shun violence.

AA culture deserves better role models than punk ass sports hero's that father 30 children by different mothers.

AA culture deserves better leaders than Al Sharpton & J. Jackson.

[/mightypinkracerantmode]

And I know I have no freaking business commenting on AA culture, but what the hell...

But I treated 3 black males that were high on crack today, one coming off heroin, & 1 70 year old who was drunk as hell... I get tired of hearing how fvcking oppressed folks are when they're so busy destroying themselves.