Something Weird About College Admissions

[McCartney]

mrkun: Over here its' a rigorous process of an oral interview of symptoms (VERY SPecific, these online symptoms don't cut it, they ask you about scenarios and stuff) and if you don't answer them correctly they strike you on your record.. (My friend tried to get them to abuse them for study sessions)

 

[McCartney]

P.S KoC the test isn't flawed brother. The test is designed so your OVERALL performance is ROUGHLY the same (100 point vicinity)

 

[JS80]

lol how's this. friend #1 straight A varsity football got into carnegie mellon and got rejected from UC Irvine. friend #2 straight A varsity tennis/golf got into Cornell and got rejected from UCSD. friend #3 2.5 GPA (no honors/APs) no sports no nothing 1000 SAT (in 2000), black got into UC Berkeley.

friends 1 and 2 framed the rejection letters. quite golden.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: JS80
lol how's this. friend #1 straight A varsity football got into carnegie mellon and got rejected from UC Irvine. friend #2 straight A varsity tennis/golf got into Cornell and got rejected from UCSD. friend #3 2.5 GPA (no honors/APs) no sports no nothing 1000 SAT (in 2000), black got into UC Berkeley.

friends 1 and 2 framed the rejection letters. quite golden.

I'm starting to see a trend in this thread...

College admissions defy logic.

/thread

 

[McCartney]

I had a friend who had ad ecent gpa of like 80 percent (4.0??)
and she was a competitive tennis player (3rd best in western canada). She got a full ride to yale with like a 1200 SAT

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: JS80
lol how's this. friend #1 straight A varsity football got into carnegie mellon and got rejected from UC Irvine. friend #2 straight A varsity tennis/golf got into Cornell and got rejected from UCSD. friend #3 2.5 GPA (no honors/APs) no sports no nothing 1000 SAT (in 2000), black got into UC Berkeley.

friends 1 and 2 framed the rejection letters. quite golden.

I'm starting to see a trend in this thread...

College admissions defy logic.

/thread

no, it means UCs are reverse racists.

i'm sure student one will get into a good private school

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: JS80
no, it means UCs are reverse racists.

You think it's a conspiracy to get Asians to take over the world then? I've actually suspected that myself.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: JS80
no, it means UCs are reverse racists.

You think it's a conspiracy to get Asians to take over the world then? I've actually suspected that myself.

:Q

 

[BrownTown]

Just to throw this in there:

I am a white male, I had a 3.6GPA in high school, I didn't do any varsity sports, I was a member of one club. I did have a 1530 SAT (outa 1600) and 5's in 7 AP classes though. But anyways, I got into every school I applied to and ended up going to a top 20 school.

Also I'll jsut throw in twin borthers sh|t to make me look bad:

White male, 4.2GPA, did varsity sport 5 years (was member of varsity team in middle school). Had a 1590 SAT (had a 1460 after sixth grade), 35 ACT, 800s of 4 SATIIs, 5s in 11 AP tests. Won the Tennesse geography bee twice, advanced to top 10 in the country once. Went to Greece and Germany on Chemistry Olympiad, was the highest score of any American his senior year. Member of all the honors societies, the senior leadership group, several clubs. Took college classes in the summer. Also, he pretty much won all the city and state competitions in math and science. The funny thing is that he is a lazy bastard just like me and didn't work nearly as hard as most of the smart people in our school. Basically my whole family loves him and thinks I'm a loser .

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: JS80
no, it means UCs are reverse racists.

You think it's a conspiracy to get Asians to take over the world then? I've actually suspected that myself.

actually affirmative action hurts asians the most.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
White male, 4.2GPA, did varsity sport 5 years (was member of varsity team in middle school). Had a 1590 SAT (had a 1460 after sixth grade), 35 ACT, 800s of 4 SATIIs, 5s in 11 AP tests. Won the Tennesse geography bee twice, advanced to top 10 in the country once. Went to Greece and Germany on Chemistry Olympiad, was the highest score of any American his senior year. Member of all the honors societies, the senior leadership group, several clubs. Took college classes in the summer. Also, he pretty much won all the city and state competitions in math and science. The funny thing is that he is a lazy bastard just like me and didn't work nearly as hard as most of the smart people in our school. Basically my whole family loves him and thinks I'm a loser .

I feel grossly incompetent now. Thanks.

I can do this cool thing with my fingers. I just hold up the middle one.

EDIT: All I got is I work on a mod that got 150,000+ downloads last release, meh.

 

[atomicacid55]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: JS80
no, it means UCs are reverse racists.

You think it's a conspiracy to get Asians to take over the world then? I've actually suspected that myself.

actually affirmative action hurts asians the most.

Yup. It takes away from Asians the most because we don't need it. It gives a lot to African Americans and the effects on Whites are negligible. Asians unfortunately get slammed with AA.

Anyways, I'm an Asian with a 4.35 in HS. I did jack worth sports except swimming in junior high through sophomore year of HS on the local CC swim team. I got a 1390 on my SAT I, which is crap, but get this. For my SAT IIs, I got 800 on writing, 780 on Chem, 800 on my IIC. SAT IIs were worth 2x the point value meaning a total of 4800 points. Forget that I didn't do well on my SAT Is cuz thats obviously not worth as much as my SAT IIs.

In terms of grades, I got As and Bs, but my Bs were mostly in classes such as English, Spanish. The only B I ever got in a science class was my first semester of freshman bio. Ever since freshman year, math has always been As across the board, and same with my programming classes. I took APs and honors left and right (6 in junior year, 4 in senior year).

Anyways, I got into Cal. I also got into privates like CMU, Cornell, U$C, etc, and other great public schools like GA Tech, Univ. Washington, fUCLA and more.

BTW, they don't admit you just because you're poor or something like that. They don't know you're poor. I never submitted a FAFSA. My parents never let me because they knew that we made plenty of money that it would be ridiculous to even submit it, and we'd rather not let them know we have oodles of cash.

I studied the admissions process at Berkeley and all UCs for a long time, and believe me... being one of the Asians whose parents sent me to every prep class there was in the world, I can guarantee my assessment of the admissions process is QUITE accurate.

The UCs don't give a flying fvck who you are. They don't give a DAMN about you and your extracurriculars. They look at your grades, SATs and they compound a point value. Each UC does it differently, but we know that SAT IIs are worth 2x their point value, meaning its a 3:1 favor in SAT II total score vs SAT I score. GPA is worth a buttload too. They read your personal statement. IF you have something halfway decent and your numbers add up, you're in. I'm pretty sure UCSD and below admitted me without too much trouble.

Now there's this "comprehensive review" thing that everyone talks about. Well, comprehensive review kicks in when you suck and you're on the borderline of being admitted or not. Ok, you might not suck, but you suck too much that they can't throw you an admissions letter without hesitation. Thus they read your crap more carefully. They read to see your personal statment and whether you really hauled @$$ in it. They also check to see your extracurriculars, etc.

I was sent to one of those $1500 college writing prep classes. I had Stanfurd english majors read my statements 20 times over. I had revisions going around everyday. I had multiple high school english teachers and counselors proofread my essays. I had peer editing going. I was sending out an email everyday to my prep class coordinators who would send me revisions back within the day... I know I had a fvcking KICK ASS personal statement. That's how I got into Cal and all those great schools despite not having the best numbers in the world.

If you want my answer about why student 1 didn't get in, it's because of the personal statement. I know too many people who had GREAT GPA, GREAT SATs, etc, and if they were off from mine, only off a little, but they obviously never spent the same time I did on my personal statement, and that's why I know many who didn't get into UCLA or Cal.

My advice is don't skip out on the essay. IT's not something you can write in a week. I started on SEPTEMBER 4th. That gave me less than 2 months to finish for the MIT EA deadline. I refined that for my UC essay and even more for my U$C and Stanfurd apps. By the time I had my private school apps in I worked on my essay for something like 3 months straight. I only took a few breaks here and there. I think I took a week off after my MIT essay, and a few days after my UC app was in.

 

[McCartney]

Man you talk about your family's money like it matters here.
I have the same "success" as you and my parents didn't make me work as hard

My mom and dad came to Canada at ages 18 in 71 with jack all to their name and they're worth alot too.

You're like my asian friend whose parents made him a "preppy wannabe". He was forced to play tennis and sent to private school and he lived in BC. It's sad really the extent your parents make you kids go to "Fit in"

You guys have to understand either you're born to fit on or not. Most asians I know hang out in their packs (Not being racist AT ALL, This is a TRUE observation) and talk asian or english about what's going on in their "Jap pop" or chinese pop world.

I am not racist at all, but you sir are a creation of your parents. You're your parents dream, they tossed all this money in you so they can make you a doctor. I feel sorry for you man, because you have all this pressure riding on you and you want it so bad.

It's okay though, it'll all work out for you eventually, just gotta understand your parents desires and your own are completely different. From the womb you're raised as a machine, how do you deal with it? Especially with your egocentricity displayed in the above statement?

"they knew we made plenty of money and it would be ridiculous to even submit it, and we'd rather not let them know we have oodles of cash"
"being one of the Asians whose parents sent me to every prep class in the world my assessments of the admissions process is QUITE accurate"
"I was sent to one of those $1500 college writing prep classes"

Man where are you getting off it's about money? It never is.

FYI I almost got into Harvard, my recommendations screwed me. I was nothing special either. I was phone interviewed. So yeah I can tell you about where I've gotten in too, but how much do I care? None.

In the end result it's all about who you are not what your grades are, understand that man.

 

[senseamp]

Schools have their own ideas for their student bodies, especially undergrad. Overall, it's probably for the best. Some fields, like engineering, really need more women, so it would be stupid to reject women just because they got a 4.0 and not a 4.3
When you are sitting in computer lab all night, you'll appreciate the engineering admissions cutting women a little slack so you don't just have Asian dudes to look at.

 

[LongCoolMother]

it could have been a fluke. Or, it could be something we don't see that the admissions officer does.

My friend last year was admitted to UC berkeley with a 1850 SATI. My other friend, with a 2200 SAT, was not. The guy who was admitted had good, but not amazing grades (As in all normal classes, with a few APs thrown in here and there).

Both were of the same race. Some things are just mysterious. It could have been a mistake, but it occurs frequently enough to seem more than accident. Who knows, it may be the essay or it may be circumstantial.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: McCartney
Man you talk about your family's money like it matters here.
I have the same "success" as you and my parents didn't make me work as hard

My mom and dad came to Canada at ages 18 in 71 with jack all to their name and they're worth alot too.

You're like my asian friend whose parents made him a "preppy wannabe". He was forced to play tennis and sent to private school and he lived in BC. It's sad really the extent your parents make you kids go to "Fit in"

You guys have to understand either you're born to fit on or not. Most asians I know hang out in their packs (Not being racist AT ALL, This is a TRUE observation) and talk asian or english about what's going on in their "Jap pop" or chinese pop world.

I am not racist at all, but you sir are a creation of your parents. You're your parents dream, they tossed all this money in you so they can make you a doctor. I feel sorry for you man, because you have all this pressure riding on you and you want it so bad.

It's okay though, it'll all work out for you eventually, just gotta understand your parents desires and your own are completely different. From the womb you're raised as a machine, how do you deal with it? Especially with your egocentricity displayed in the above statement?

"they knew we made plenty of money and it would be ridiculous to even submit it, and we'd rather not let them know we have oodles of cash"
"being one of the Asians whose parents sent me to every prep class in the world my assessments of the admissions process is QUITE accurate"
"I was sent to one of those $1500 college writing prep classes"

Man where are you getting off it's about money? It never is.

FYI I almost got into Harvard, my recommendations screwed me. I was nothing special either. I was phone interviewed. So yeah I can tell you about where I've gotten in too, but how much do I care? None.

In the end result it's all about who you are not what your grades are, understand that man.

strange. I thought Indians were the most guilty of what you describe.

 

[McCartney]

Asians and indians are equal culprits

My parents aren't though, they're liberal as hell

 

[Safeway]

Yea, I can never get over affirmative action either. It is highly preposterous and offensive to me. I have lost out on thousands upon thousands of dollars due to the fact I am a white male.

 

[Parasitic]

Berkeley has more female than male students. 53:47 I think.
This may be due to various reasons that #2 was accepted over #1. Student #1 might have chosen a heavily impacted major/school (i.e. Chemistry, Engineering) while #2 is a liberal arts major. Or that maybe #2 undertalked her qualifications to you such that she is acutally more qualified than she appears to you. Another possibility is that #2 might actually have an essay that truly puts her over the top at that "describe a period of hardship that makes you learn to grow up" prompt or something like that.

That or a far-fetched idea is that Berkeley admission committee has seen through and predetermined that #1 would not be interested in attending Cal if they were to extent admission acceptance to student #1 anyways. In that case, why waste a spot for somebody else equally promising and more likely to attend Berkeley than #1?

A lot of people traditionally treat Berkeley as an alternative "last choice" to Ivy League schools, and maybe the committee has factored that in as well. On the UC application it does ask you what your parents' education backgrounds are and if they have attended an UC campus before, IIRC.

Once again, it all depends on the committee whether you're a good fit or not. As an undergraduate I got accepted to all the UC's I applied to (UCB, UCLA, UCSB) besides UCSD, along with a handful of other private schools (NW, USC, Mudd). I'm Asian and my grades are decent (GPA 4.5+) and by no means top 4% of my class (I know this for a fact because I didn't qualify for ELC). I didn't have time for any of the SAT prep stuff but still got almost to 1400 (this was 4 years ago).

 

[Slew Foot]

I used to be on the ad-com for UCSF Medical School.

For the first stage in our application, we put the applicants scores and info into a checklist and they received points objectively based upon their scores and info, and subjectively based upon their reccomendations and essays. If they received enough points, they received an interview.

On the checklist was a place for ethnicity, being African American of Hispanic netted you 2 points, White got you a 0, while Asians(for the most part) got a -1, and Indian/Pakistani got socked with a -3. In general, you needed about 40-45 to get an interview.

 

[McCartney]

Sounds about right Slewfoot since most Indians that I Know are going into Medicine for money, it's pathetic really.
They do everything that's extracurricular and active to pad their resume, it's sad and I hate them for it.

They get spotted real fast in interviews though typically. However if I ever ask for recommendation letters I can get tonnes with nothing but good words to say about me
since anyone I get to know will know me well enough to not make a general letter (Which is atrocious, just because you have a 4.0 doesn't mean they will write you a character-boosting letter about you, they're gonna write about your performacne more than anything).

I love Graduate school I can't wait to fill out my applications!

Slewfoot, it is heavily based on the MCAT (For standardization) and how you convey your character on paper right? (Along with recommendations which I"m assuming are HEAVY since these are omniscient judgments of the person)

 

[SsupernovaE]

I know for a fact that even highly selective schools will use affirmative action for admissions. Let's take me for example. I had a 3.9 GPA in high school and a 1530 SAT. No extracurriculars of any kind. The only thing setting me apart was the fact that I am severely disabled and used that to my advantage (severe muscular dystrophy). I was accepted over what I consider to be far more qualified classmates.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot
Well, decisions from UC Berkeley came back yesterday, and I noticed something odd at my school.

Student 1
*Straight As all 4 years. I saw his transcript myself and I don't think there was a single A- on it
*~4.33 GPA (guessing)
*AP and Honors classes
*Did sports
*Did fairly well on SAT
*White
*Male
*Financially stable

Student 2
*Did not get straight As. Haven't seen her transcript, but I figure its a peppering of As and Bs, with atleast one C (AP class)
*~4.00 GPA (guessing)
*AP and Honors classes
*Didn't do sports (not positive)
*Did worse than Student 1 on SAT
*Overall not as smart as Student 1
*Mexican
*Female
*Poor

"UC Berkeley is perennially the most selective school in the UC system and one of the most selective universities in the United States....an acceptance rate of 23.5%. The average person admitted to the university as a freshman in 2005 had a weighted GPA of 4.33, and those who matriculated in 2006 had an average GPA of 4.26 and average score of 1975 out of 2400 (approximately 94th percentile) on the SAT admissions test." - from Wikipedia

Now, I know that neither of them got a 1975 on the SAT, but Student 2 definately got less than Student 1 on the SAT. Student 2 also most definately did not have a 4.3 GPA.

So, how is it that UC Berkeley admits Student 2, but not Student 1? Does her being Mexican and poor really outweigh Student 1 that much?

By the way, don't get me wrong, I'm friends with both of the students, and although Student 2 is really nice she definately is not as bright or as good of a candidate as Student 1. She even said herself that the only reason she got in was because shes Mexican and poor.

I've never been one to favor affirmative action, and this seems to reinforce that for me, especially when its not like the two applicants were neck and neck, and Berkeley is a very selective school. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong and they let her in mainly because she is poor?

Cliffs
1. Read the two student lists
2. Read the italicized question
3. Discuss

Being poor and Mexican doesn't do much for you unless you show that you overcame adversity or that you were heavily involved in Hispanic clubs or activities.

...and Go Bears...

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
I still find it funny the GPAs some schools give out, imo a 4.0 is the highest possible grade that can be achieved.

That some students can get above a 4.0 makes it a little easier to compare students in different programs and at different schools.

Getting all A's in non-honors classes at Santiago or Compton-Dominguez does not mean a student achieved as much or has the aptitude of a student who got all A's in honors classes at University, Sunny Hills, Whitney, Harvard-Westlake, etc.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: McCartney
Sounds about right Slewfoot since most Indians that I Know are going into Medicine for money, it's pathetic really.
They do everything that's extracurricular and active to pad their resume, it's sad and I hate them for it.

They get spotted real fast in interviews though typically. However if I ever ask for recommendation letters I can get tonnes with nothing but good words to say about me
since anyone I get to know will know me well enough to not make a general letter (Which is atrocious, just because you have a 4.0 doesn't mean they will write you a character-boosting letter about you, they're gonna write about your performacne more than anything).

I love Graduate school I can't wait to fill out my applications!

Slewfoot, it is heavily based on the MCAT (For standardization) and how you convey your character on paper right? (Along with recommendations which I"m assuming are HEAVY since these are omniscient judgments of the person)

MCAT scores are very important, especially the verbal section. I dont want to give away too much info on the process though as it is confidential. This was about 5 years ago so it might have changed. On the whole, everyone says they're going into medicine to help poor people and whatnot, then after getting kicked in the teeth during med school, internship, and residency, almost everyone goes for the $$$ or lifestyle.