Something Weird About College Admissions

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: ppdes
I went to a highly ranked engineering school, they were so desperate for female students that they would often pay for a flight and lodging if the girl was willing to come check out the school.

yeah...this old friend of mine got into carnegie mellon because she was an engineer major. How much did it cost her to go there? zero everything was paid for and she wasn't a 4.0+ gpa average student either. I guess the fact that she was kinda hot helped too.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Liberals, that is all you need to know. Merit means little if strictly going by work, achievement, and results excludes a minority. This is just another case where diversity is a sham because it has to be FORCED.

Not quite. Your post just indicates how little you know about the college system. This is surprising, since you're apparently a die hard conservative (normal people don't badmouth liberals unless they know what they're talking about, which you do not)

Do you realize how many minority scholarships exist? This is PURELY a money issue. A good Mexican student can get 10x more money and remain debt-free than a white student. Gender is also a big role, there are many scholarships for women (and then you get into scholarships that are purely for women of certain heritages).

Berkeley, being a public school, is accepting the student that is less likely to need a job to get through school and is more likely to actually pay the tuition/fees since the scholarship foundations will be paying them for her, whereas the white male student may fall on hard times through no fault of his own and be unable to pay for additional semesters.

This is purely a matter of statistics of money. You have two students

Student A has unknown financial status and has a very low likelihood of getting outside financial support not counting family or debt.

Student B has unknown financial status but a VERY VERY HIGH likelihood of receiving outside scholarships, grants, and other sources of funding that do not include family or debt.

Do you now understand the fiscal reason behind this? Unless student A was an outstanding athlete (in which case Berkeley will want him to bring more sports funds to the university), Student B is the better choice financially.

There, now you understand why this has nothing to do with affirmative action or liberals. Now go talk to the hundreds of female mexicans that DID NOT get in because they had worse grades and were less likely to receive outside financial support.

You also have to remember that getting into college is a lot like playing craps. I know someone that got accepted to Harvard and UC Berkeley but rejected from UCLA. Berkeley >>> UCLA. Harvard goes without questioning. This was a mexican male, mind you.

:thumbsup: Thank you, this was the kind of insight I was looking for when I started this thread.

That does make a lot of sense. At first I was wondering why they would take someone poor over someone who is financially stable, but your explanation of how scholarships create a more stable financial situation when it comes to tuition makes perfect sense.

 

[Shortcut]

You forgot to tell us what major your friends applied to.

Berkeley admissions partially depend on what major applicants apply to. For instance, the engineering programs are a hell of a lot tougher to get into compared to something like forestry or library science.

 

[GhettoBlaster]

I know some of the most selective schools admit based on major they applied for. Lucky for me Louisiana State University didn't do it and it was right before admissions standards have ramped up. Soon they will be admitting based on major so at a school like LSU it will be tougher to get in as an engineering or business student which are the strongest programs at the university as opposed to a weaker department.

I don't like people getting preference over others due to their skin color or gender but it's a fact of life and you have to deal with it. In fact you college education is what you make of it yourself. I didn't go to a "prestigious" school but I had a great time and got the most I could out of it.

 

[mugs]

Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

 

[amol]

College admissions is a crapshoot. Kids who on paper had much worse chances at certain schools than I did got much better results. It sucks.

 

[Shortcut]

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

No interviews, IIRC. But the applications do include essays...so that's another variable the OP failed to consider.

Nice job jumping onto the race card, OP. University of College for you!

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

Neither student was interviewed, although I know a third student who applied and was admitted did to an interview.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Student 2 is a minority. Universities are well-known to admit students only because of race (despite the fact that this is the definition of racism).

/thread

 

[Mo0o]

Here's an interesting look at numbers for matriculants of medical schools broken down by ethnicity

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: Shortcut

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

No interviews, IIRC. But the applications do include essays...so that's another variable the OP failed to consider.

Nice job jumping onto the race card, OP. University of College for you!

You're right, little old racist me, with my Mexican friend who said that she only got in because she was Mexican and poor.

Also, I did mention the essays earlier, and that Student 2 wasn't a great essay writer. I've been told that essays only come into play when they have to decide between multiple students who may or may not make it in.

 

[Shortcut]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: Shortcut

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

No interviews, IIRC. But the applications do include essays...so that's another variable the OP failed to consider.

Nice job jumping onto the race card, OP. University of College for you!

You're right, little old racist me, with my Mexican friend who said that she only got in because she was Mexican and poor.

Also, I did mention the essays earlier, and that Student 2 wasn't a great essay writer. I've been told that essays only come into play when they have to decide between multiple students who may or may not make it in.

You aren't a racist, just lazy and ignorant. Your breakdown of your buddies in the OP is full of SWAGs, and then you lazily assumed affirmative action filtered out Student 1 without considering other possibilities.

You're lazy and ignorant. But that's OK, cause you've still got your college years to grow up.

Essays come into play into the admissions process. But the writer's reputation does not. You may believe Student 2's writing abilities are passable, but she might have brought her A-game for her UC essays.

You've also assumed they're competing for the same spot in the freshman class. Did they apply to the same major?

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: Shortcut

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: Shortcut

Originally posted by: mugs
Don't they do interviews and stuff? It's not all based on what the student looks like on paper.

No interviews, IIRC. But the applications do include essays...so that's another variable the OP failed to consider.

Nice job jumping onto the race card, OP. University of College for you!

You're right, little old racist me, with my Mexican friend who said that she only got in because she was Mexican and poor.

Also, I did mention the essays earlier, and that Student 2 wasn't a great essay writer. I've been told that essays only come into play when they have to decide between multiple students who may or may not make it in.

You aren't a racist, just lazy and ignorant. Your breakdown of your buddies in the OP is full of SWAGs, and then you lazily assumed affirmative action filtered out Student 1 without considering other possibilities.

You're lazy and ignorant. But that's OK, cause you've still got your college years to grow up.

You've also assumed they're competing for the same spot in the freshman class. Did they apply to the same major?

For the last time, I didn't 'lazily assume' anything. She said that it was because shes Mexican and poor, right after she started talking about it.

I didn't assume anything to be correct, hence why I asked whether her being Mexican and poor played into it. In fact, the first question I asked was why Berkeley admitted Student 2 and not Student 1.

You're just being an ass. I asked some questions I was hoping to get some light spread on. I had a theory that AA might have something to do with it, but I also thought her financial situation might also have to do with it.

I don't know what majors they applied to, I didn't think to ask.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Cliffs
1. Read the two student lists
2. Read the italicized question
3. Discuss

It's called replacement

 

[SoLiDus88]

Straight As and couldn't even break 2000 on the SATs? wow ****** high school.

Minority status is a huge factor for college admissions. I am asian and technically a minority, but over represented in higher education. oh well.

 

[Shortcut]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot
I didn't think

QFT

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: SoLiDus88
Straight As and couldn't even break 2000 on the SATs? wow ****** high school.

grade inflation ftw? it's such a joke at so many schools... A's are handed out like candy.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: SoLiDus88
Straight As and couldn't even break 2000 on the SATs? wow ****** high school.

grade inflation ftw? it's such a joke at so many schools... A's are handed out like candy.

Tell me about it, I see so many examples of this (HS junior), one guy I know has a 3.8ish GPA (4 point scale) in about 50% AP/honors classes and he got a 1550ish on the SAT. The real funny thing is when you get a teacher who refuses to hand out A's a dime a dozen and you all these people who are so used to being coddled complaining how horrible this teacher is.

OP, I've talked to dean of admissions at a local private university and he says that socioeconomic situation is at times taken in to account because it is often reflective of the amount of opportunities the student has had. So if you have 2 students with similar applications and one is significantly poorer they go with the poorer student because the assumption is that they did more with their opportunities.

 

[FilmCamera]

Your friend should be thankful he didn't get into Berkeley. That place is wacked.

 

[judasmachine]

boohoo, yawn.

 

[DaWhim]

because the mexican girl is poorer? did she got in for EOP or something like that?

 

[sjwaste]

Hi. I live and work in the real world. If you think high school grades and standardized test scores mean anything in the future, you're mistaken. Maybe her family isn't well off and she had to work in high school to help out. Maybe she couldn't afford the best SAT prep or tutors (if you think it's not completely preppable, refer to the clause in sentence 2).

Largely it doesn't matter what school you go to anyway (unless you want to immediately go into academia), so in 10 years it won't matter. But stop and think, maybe given the circumstances, she earned the opportunity. Maybe she'll make the most of it, maybe not. But it isn't your problem.

I'm not a fan of affirmative action, but I do believe in evaluating the circumstances when it comes to education. Anyone given enough time and money can knock out good grades in high school, prep the SAT, and have the numbers in order. Less can do it when time and money are scarce. Being a woman or a minority doesn't set someone back intrinsically, but there's a reason that race and gender are protected classes -- historically, their success has been more difficult to achieve than for a white male.

You'll see this when you're out of school. The jobs, at least with hiring managers who have a history of success, will go to the candidate who wants it more. At least, thats my perspective.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

For the last time, I didn't 'lazily assume' anything. She said that it was because shes Mexican and poor, right after she started talking about it.

I didn't assume anything to be correct, hence why I asked whether her being Mexican and poor played into it. In fact, the first question I asked was why Berkeley admitted Student 2 and not Student 1.

You're just being an ass. I asked some questions I was hoping to get some light spread on. I had a theory that AA might have something to do with it, but I also thought her financial situation might also have to do with it.

I don't know what majors they applied to, I didn't think to ask.

The real question is, why do you care? I can't see why this is your concern.

Worry about your own grades and your own future. Or, maybe worry about having a little fun during the best 4 years of your life, rather than who was admitted where.

 

[Dacalo]

Or how about this:

Student 1:
*4.4X GPA
*AP and honors classes
*Took college level calculus senior year
*An officer of FBLA, member of Golden Key, and Academic Decathelon
*HS tennis team
*Did fairly well on SAT
*Asian
*Financially stable
*Male

Student 2:
*Sub 4.0 GPA
*A couple of honors, no AP
*Pre-calculus
*Not a member of any clubs
*Did worse than Student 1
*White
*Financially stable
*Female

And Student 2 got in, but Student 1 didn't. Student 1 was me 9 years ago. Fvck you Berkeley! Although UCLA and Davis accepted me. No my essay didn't suck.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Dacalo
Or how about this:

Student 1:
*4.4X GPA
*AP and honors classes
*Took college level calculus senior year
*An officer of FBLA, member of Golden Key, and Academic Decathelon
*HS tennis team
*Did fairly well on SAT
*Asian
*Financially stable
*Male

Student 2:
*Sub 4.0 GPA
*A couple of honors, no AP
*Pre-calculus
*Not a member of any clubs
*Did worse than Student 1
*White
*Financially stable
*Female

And Student 2 got in, but Student 1 didn't. Student 1 was me 9 years ago. Fvck you Berkeley! Although UCLA and Davis accepted me. No my essay didn't suck.

Did your life turn out ok? Are you able to steer in the direction you want to be? If the answer is "yes", and i suspect thats the case, you'll quickly see my point

I didn't get into my top choices either, but I ended up at a good school and built a nice foundation out of it. Education is what we make of it.