Something's squealing! Maybe Power Supply or Motherboard?

[CKDragon]

As the title says, I've got a component making a high pitched squealing.

Here's the PC specs:
-Antec SmartPower 2.0 450watt PS
-Asrock 939Dual-SATA2 mobo
-AMD 3800 X2 (2ghz OC'ed to 2.31)
-ATI Radeon X850XT Platinum Edition
-Sound Blaster Audigy 2
-BenQ DVD+-RW
-2 Hard Drives (1 300GB Maxtor/1 320GB Western Digital)
-4 things plugged into USB (Logitech G15 keyboard, MS Intellimouse Explorer, Printer, and my Dell 2007FP's USB upstream plug)

Here's the debugging I've done so far:
-CHECKED HARD DRIVES: Unplugged one at a time, the sound is still there. (Thank God, they're both full and would be a pain to backup).
-OPTICAL DRIVE: Yea, unlikely source, but I unplugged it and no problems there.
-FANS, except for power supply: I stopped each of them one by one, trying to see if one was squeaky. All seem fine.

Other pertinent information:
-I did buy the new video card about a month ago. It has been fine, no overheating AT ALL. I've played Oblivion for long sessions with it. But perhaps something developed over the months time that it has affected either the power supply or motherboard?
-THE KICKER: Just within the last 2 days, the USB mouse started behaving erratically. I turned the volume up and repeated heard the sound of a USB device being plugged in/out. So it is losing power in random spurts. To investigate this, I unplugged my USB devices one by one, each one made the sound slightly lower. When they're all unplugged, the sound goes away.

I don't have an extra power supply here to test it out. But does this sound like the power supply or motherboard? Is it even possible for the motherboard to make a squeaking/squealing sound like this?

Thank you so much for reading this and for any help you can provide,

Matthew

EDIT: Oh, one more thing which may/may not be related. Just within the last few days since this started, I've been having boot up issues where not all of my system tray icons are visible upon booting (AIM, ATITool, etc). I swear my computer is very clean and the programs are actually running, they're just not showing their system tray icons. Figured I'd add this information. Thanks again.

 

[Jiggz]

So is the noise coming out physically from the rig or is it from the speakers? It sounds like it is coming out of the speakers. And if this is the case, it's likely coming from the mobo or from EMI around the rig.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: Jiggz
So is the noise coming out physically from the rig or is it from the speakers? It sounds like it is coming out of the speakers. And if this is the case, it's likely coming from the mobo or from EMI around the rig.

Thanks for the reply. No, it's coming out physically from the rig.

CK

 

[DaRkLoRd666]

try a different psu, thats the onlything i can think of.

My psu by powork (never heard of them) makes a strange buzzing noise like you where discribing but its worked since ive got it 4 months ago so i dont think i need to replace it.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Google, toroidal coil squeal and read. Google images of toroidal coil.

P4 boards are known to squeal at times and little can be done about it except a large dot
of hot glue on each side of the toroid.
I see you run AMD. Ground yourself to the case and touch the toroids. You should be able
to feel the squealer.

When caps short out internally they can overload board componets, toroids, fets, VRM, etc...
Thankfully most go bad in an open condition and no harm is done.

Try another PSU. If your Smart Power is out of warrenty, open it up for a close inspection. It may have suffered a Gary Busey level head injury and is no longer as
smart as it once was.


...Galvanized

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: DaRkLoRd666

My psu by powork (never heard of them) makes a strange buzzing noise like you where discribing but its worked since ive got it 4 months ago so i dont think i need to replace it.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Live & learn.


...Galvanized

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Google, toroidal coil squeal and read. Google images of toroidal coil.

P4 boards are known to squeal at times and little can be done about it except a large dot
of hot glue on each side of the toroid.
I see you run AMD. Ground yourself to the case and touch the toroids. You should be able
to feel the squealer.

When caps short out internally they can overload board componets, toroids, fets, VRM, etc...
Thankfully most go bad in an open condition and no harm is done.

Try another PSU. If your Smart Power is out of warrenty, open it up for a close inspection. It may have suffered a Gary Busey level head injury and is no longer as
smart as it once was.


...Galvanized

Thank you for your very informative reply. The time it took is very much appreciated.

I tried touching all of the toroids on the motherboard (I did this with a pencil eraser while grounding myself). None of the touching affected the squealing at all and I didn't feel any odd vibrations.

After reading some articles on google, there are toroids in a power supply, correct? It's still possible it's one of those, but it is under warranty. I just want to make sure I RMA the right thing. Unfortunately, I don't have another power supply here to swap in/out.

Does the fact that the USB ports turn on and off indicate to you that it's more of a power supply issue than a bad motherboard? Or could it still be either?

Thanks again,

Matthew

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

My guess...PSU. The USB is only served by the 5V rail. USB devices have a very low
wattage demand. You might hook a high wattage fan into the 5V line and see what happens.

Since I've read so many posts about antec PSUs my feelings toward them are not good.
The NeoHEs are built by Seasonic and those are the only units from antec i'd even consider.
RMA it, then sell it or ask if antec will let you upgrade to a NeoHE.

The Enermax Libertys have a noise at power up that is normal...Call transformer ignition
It gets excited and makes a zap sound.


...Galvanized

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

PM sent.


...Galvanized

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I have a high pitched sound on my game machine. It gets worse when I first start a game. I thought maybe it was the video card. I have an MSI K8N NEO2 motherboard.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I have a high pitched sound on my game machine. It gets worse when I first start a game. I thought maybe it was the video card. I have an MSI K8N NEO2 motherboard.

You do know what's going to happen This board will get flooded with noise complaints

Sometimes bumping an OC up or down a bit will get rid of harmonics.

Sometimes when caps vent just a bit, they will need to warm up to come into spec. Old techs
will use a heat gun to warm up a board to get it to boot. This works if the caps have dried out a little.

Real cold temps <10C can cause issues. My old works Power PSU would drop the 3.3V line to
<2.2V when below 16C, causing RAM instability.

I don't even have a decent guess Hobbs. If it goes away as the rig warms, my best guess would be in the above.


...Galvanized

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I have a high pitched sound on my game machine. It gets worse when I first start a game. I thought maybe it was the video card. I have an MSI K8N NEO2 motherboard.

You do know what's going to happen This board will get flooded with noise complaints

Sometimes bumping an OC up or down a bit will get rid of harmonics.

Sometimes when caps vent just a bit, they will need to warm up to come into spec. Old techs
will use a heat gun to warm up a board to get it to boot. This works if the caps have dried out a little.

Real cold temps <10C can cause issues. My old works Power PSU would drop the 3.3V line to
<2.2V when below 16C, causing RAM instability.

I don't even have a decent guess Hobbs. If it goes away as the rig warms, my best guess would be in the above.


...Galvanized

Coil whine can be caused by an interaction between any number of components that deal with voltage conversions, and it doesn?t necessarily mean there is anything wrong with any of them.

The most common cause is either an interaction with the graphics card and the PSU or the motherboard and the PSU. Since you are experiencing this during gaming I would tend to think that it's a combination of the PSU and your graphics card.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: Operandi

Coil whine can be caused by an interaction between any number of components that deal with voltage conversions, and it doesn?t necessarily mean there is anything wrong with any of them.

The most common cause is either an interaction with the graphics card and the PSU or the motherboard and the PSU. Since you are experiencing this during gaming I would tend to think that it's a combination of the PSU and your graphics card.

This is true and why clean voltage for the system is a must as it all has a cascading effect.

A decent UPS supplies cleaner/stable mains to the SMPS. A good PSU will filter it's output well
on the secondary side to the mainboard. This will lighten the load on the filtering caps on the
motherboard as it supplies the systems that are supported on it.
Most current graphics cards are supported from the PSU but they still must regulated and filter this incoming.

I stated above, that raising or lower an OC can move the card out of a harmonic condition.
Some guys go as far as adding another cap in parallel that serves the VRMs inorder to lower ESR for better filtering.
Just depends on how good one is and how fine they slice thier bread.


Iwill just released a cap free board with digital VRMs/FETs and Albatron has a limited edition
board with metalic FETs/solid aluminum caps.

And so it goes.


...Galvanized

 

[Oyeve]

Try muting the mobo speaker. You may hear some interference from the speaker. I had a mobo with one of those little buzzer speaker on it and it was buzzing very low but was driving me nuts so I jammed some tissue in it. No more buzz.

 

[CKDragon]

Thanks for the PM, Galvanized. Very informative read.

So I've been able to go out and borrow an Antec 500w Smartpower 2.0 power supply from a friend. I know, I know - It's an Antec, but for testing purposes at least I know it's been working find in another PC.

Now I have an interesting issue, the USB turning on and off has gone away, but the squeal from some hardware is still there! The squeal isn't as variable as before (Before it would get louder when I plugged more USB peripherals in), now it's at a constant level. At least the important part is gone now, but do you think I should RMA the motherboard? I don't think I can borrow a motherboard from anyone to test...

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Well at least it got better.

Read my post above this one again. "Cascading effect," current with high ripple, noise and out of spec can be intermittent, as such it is hard to detect w/o an O'scope. This will work board componets very hard, so both the board and PSU *could* be bad. A new PSU would not further damage the board. A new board would be damaged by a faulty PSU.

Is the board still in the three year warrenty? If so, RMA it, as well as the PSU.

I'm not trying to fill you with FUD but you did read what 5V spikes to to HDD logic circuits. Sad ain't it.
When board caps fail to a shorted condition, the current that hits the FETs/VRMs can go nuts and is known(rare) to kill hardware more costly than a HDD. When failing to a shorted condition the current that hits the toroidals can/will make them sing. Thank god most caps fail to an open condition.

Your board may be OK. But if you hot glue the toroidals, to stop the squeal, an RMA is questionable.

I'm not expert on this stuff. I've done alot of studying and have been practicing recapping on several PCBs. My first repairs to do will be here VIA USPS tomorrow. I really enjoy bench work on hardware, no money in it, as most hardware is throw away here in The States.

Ppl discount a quality PSU in favor of bling or wattage they'll never use. In PSU reviews look for clean current output that's stable under load(XbitLabs:thumbsup. That's much more important than modular, LED fans or efficiency%.

I really wish I could be of more help but this is as good as it gets from me.


...Galvanized

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Well at least it got better.

Read my post above this one again. "Cascading effect," current with high ripple, noise and out of spec can be intermittent, as such it is hard to detect w/o an O'scope. This will work board componets very hard, so both the board and PSU *could* be bad. A new PSU would not further damage the board. A new board would be damaged by a faulty PSU.

Is the board still in the three year warrenty? If so, RMA it, as well as the PSU.

I'm not trying to fill you with FUD but you did read what 5V spikes to to HDD logic circuits. Sad ain't it.
When board caps fail to a shorted condition, the current that hits the FETs/VRMs can go nuts and is known(rare) to kill hardware more costly than a HDD. When failing to a shorted condition the current that hits the toroidals can/will make them sing. Thank god most caps fail to an open condition.

Your board may be OK. But if you hot glue the toroidals, to stop the squeal, an RMA is questionable.

I'm not expert on this stuff. I've done alot of studying and have been practicing recapping on several PCBs. My first repairs to do will be here VIA USPS tomorrow. I really enjoy bench work on hardware, no money in it, as most hardware is throw away here in The States.

Ppl discount a quality PSU in favor of bling or wattage they'll never use. In PSU reviews look for clean current output that's stable under load(XbitLabs:thumbsup. That's much more important than modular, LED fans or efficiency%.

I really wish I could be of more help but this is as good as it gets from me.


...Galvanized

Thanks a lot, Galvanized, you're the best. I really appreciate the time you've taken today to help out.

I'm going to RMA both my motherboard & power supply in hopes that everything will be back to normal.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

With the same brand, model type your OS should be OK=reformat.

Try to get antec to upgrade to a NeoHE.

I hope you run a well ventilated case, for decent cooling, PSU included.


...Galvanized