Sopranos

[Legendary]

Originally posted by: preslove
I posted this in the first finalé thread:

Originally posted by: preslove
I contend that the ending is brilliant. in short, the ending spoke to the core family drama (the Sopanos is the best family drama tv show ever produced) theme that David Chase built. Essentially, there are two families that run Tony's life, one with Carmela and the kids, and the other with a bunch of murderous italian men. The latter provides the former with a lavish income and enviable opportunities, but also unsettles it with the violence and destructions that accompanies mob life. We do not know if that guy who walked into the bathroom killed Tony (of course, that is a reference to the Godfather when Michael kills Sollozzo and Captain McCluskey), but we do know that he lives in constant fear that some altercation might end up taking his life and his family's lifestyle. That is, in essence, Tony Soprano's life, not to mention the impending indictments.

I agree entirely. I don't think Tony is dead (although it is entirely possible, ambiguity is a b!tch) because a few allusions earlier in the season is really not enough to override six seasons of themes and ideas. I think half the fun of this ending is that there's not enough evidence in either direction, so people will actually reveal what they want to happen to Tony. In essence, Tony is a sociopath, and there must be a significant number of people who morally cannot get over that (which is completely acceptable, I am simply not one of them)

To the ending:
Consider all the people Tony sees in the restaurant. They all represent him in some way. A nervous guy always looking over his shoulder. A guy trying to avoid identification (with a hat). A man with his son. A man leading boys (Boy Scouts. Consider Paulie, the only remaining member of all the made men we knew previously. Has there ever been a more childish grown man?) The beauty of the Sopranos is that Tony Soprano is in almost every respect a quintessential New Jersey guy with all the normal problems that life has, making him infinitely relatable, and completely unique problems which are fascinating in their own right. He suspects every customer because he can't afford NOT to, such is the pitfall of being the boss of a family. Both of his lives interconnect through the entire series and the final scene is a perfect representation of this and the show as a whole. Consider the scene with Meadow beforehand where she reveals that Tony's frequent arrests at the hands of the FBI led her to be a lawyer. The look on Tony's face of acceptance that he can never really keep one life separate from the other is simply classic.

Edit: I just read this off nj.com:

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past.

Changes things a bit. Supposedly Chase filmed 3 endings so maybe they were all involved. This just leaves me more frustrated, actually. Probably because I want Tony to live. I'll have to check the faces when I rewatch.
/end edit

"Don't Stop Believing" in the background:

Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

Unfortunately, not for us.

There have been very few times in Tony's life (that we've witnessed) where he didn't have any problems at all. Ending the show in such a way would have been unrealistic. He still has Carlo to deal with, not to mention Paulie's insanity, Patsy becoming part of his family, a new (attractive female, probably Italian, although not a brunette, which is a good sign) therapist. (Notice all of Tony's comares and Melfi are brunettes like his mother was.)
In the Sopranos universe, for Tony, after those onion rings and some dinner, life goes on. The guy in the bathroom is clearly an homage and can't be assumed to be a guarantee of Tony's death. This show references The Godfather so many times (see The Test Dream for a direct reference to the "just his d!ck in his hand" line) that ending the series without one would be shameful.

Also, bonus points for Phil Leotardo's death and squishy postmortem. I'll be watching the whole episode again tomorrow.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

People will want to justify this ending as artistic brilliance after they wasted some 80+ hours on the show. If it was half the people who saw it wouldn't be cursing at DC & co. and threatening to cancel their HBO subscriptions.

 

[Deeko]

Are you all kidding?

I only read the first half of these replies, but come on.

**SPOILER ALERT TO ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH TO STILL BE HERE**

Come on, how many loose ends did they clean up?

phil is killed. Very terribly.
rest of the NY crew cleans up to tony
Paulie pledges his allegiencies ("my life for you")
AJ finally mans up
Everyone of Tony's family relationships improve. Even his uncle!

the ONLY negative is the fed investigation, that they convientently left out. Even if proven guilty, thats only a few years, and lines like "i think we might win this thing" tell me tony has some friends in blue.

Come on people. What ending do you want? Unless he dies, there is NO closure to this series, and who wants that? I thought it was a great ending. my personal opinion? Pay less opinion to the dude at the counter, more to the parallel parking. She screws up again and again...finally, end of the episode, she gets it right. This tells me 'everythings ok'.

Think what you will, but don't whine. I thought it was a great, fitting ending.

 

[Deeko]

ps - i only watched the last 2.5 seasons. no sopranos expert or sympathiser. Just my opinion.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: Legendary
...enormous snip...

Quality commentary :thumbsup:

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
From what I've read on other boards it appears that the guy sitting at the bar is Nikki Leotardo, Phil's cousin. The black guys were also involved in the past, I believe they tried to shoot at Tony. I forget the rest, but the 3 people that the camera focuses on in the diner all apparently had reasons to kill Tony.

Sounds like a game of Clue.

 

[Blieb]

I'm very torn.

Part of me just wants closure. Without closure, nothing is for certain.
----
So all the people were from the past. They all looked familiar. IF one of them were to shoot him, I think we would have seen the gun, but not heard the shot (RE: all the references in this thread).
----
I also thought maybe Tony would get killed in front of AJ ... like many mob father figures are.
----
How can AJ be totally foobar'd for the entire season, just to snap out of it? Mental illness doesn't work like that ...
----
EVEN in the friggin show, Tony gets some form of closure with Junior when he realizes that he's just an old senile mfer.
----

I guess the biggest thing ... is that I agree, he doesn't have to DIE ... but leaving it open ended means that they can bring it back, or make a movie, or squeeze more out of us. Although, even if Tony died, AJ could rise up. His bookie college buddies would get behind him.

The last season opens so many opportunities ... Meadow could defend her old man, AJ could turn into what Christopher wanted to be (and avoid mob life altogether) ... Tony could take over New Jersey operations ... so much material ...

I think putting people in the last seen who died in 1976 is crazy. I love the show, watch it religiously ... started just after season 3 and played catch-up ... fast. They constantly pulled us through the dirt ... making us wait for 2 years between seasons 4 and 5 ... and almost a year and a half between 5 and 6 ...

I think the song lyrics are the only key for us:

Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

It's like everything wrapped up ... and in the end ... life really does just go on and on, for all of us. Same ole sheet ... day in, day out for the most part. Just a rake.

 

[BoomerD]

From the morning paper:

http://www.modbee.com/24hour/e...637682p-12969489c.html

No easy ending for HBO's `The Sopranos'

By FRAZIER MOORE -- AP Television Writer

Last Updated: June 11, 2007, 05:40:31 AM PDT

NEW YORK (AP) Tony Soprano carries on.
The much-awaited conclusion of HBO's "The Sopranos" arrived Sunday night in a frenzy of audience speculation. Would New Jersey mob boss Soprano live or be killed? Would his family die before his eyes? Would he go to jail? Be forced to enter witness protection? Would Brooklyn boss Phil Leotardo, who had ordered a hit on Tony, prevail?

In the end, the only ending that mattered was the one masterminded by "Sopranos" creator David Chase. And playing against viewer expectations, as always, Chase refused to stage a mass extermination, put the characters through any changes, or provide his viewers with comfortable closure. Or catharsis. After all, he declined to pass moral judgment on Tony - he reminded viewers all season what a thug Tony is, then gave him a pass.

But Chase was true to himself, and that's what made "The Sopranos" brilliant on Sunday night, and the 85 episodes that went before. The product of an artist with a bleak but illuminating vision, "The Sopranos" has always existed on its own terms. And it was seldom tidy.

The only neat development in the finale was that Leotardo was crushed. Otherwise it was perversely non-earthshaking - just one last visit with the characters we have followed so devoutly since 1999.

Here was the funeral for Bobby Bacala, Tony's soldier and brother-in-law, who was shot dead on Leotardo's orders last week. Here was Tony (series star James Gandolfini) paying a hospital visit to his gravely injured consigliere, Silvio Dante, also targeted by Leotardo.

Tony's ne'er-do-well son A.J. (Robert Iler) continued to wail about the misery in the world, and voiced a fleeting urge to join the Army and go fight in Afghanistan (Tony persuaded him to get involved in filmmaking, instead). Daughter Meadow (Jamie-Lynn Sigler) harped on her plans to be a lawyer.

Tony visits his senile Uncle Junior (Dominic Chianese) at the nursing home. "You and my dad, you two ran North Jersey," Tony prompts him.

"We did?" said Uncle Junior with no sign of recognition. "That's nice."

Despite suspicions to the contrary, neither Paulie Walnuts nor Patsy Parisi sold out Tony. And neither was whacked. Dr. Melfi, who kicked Tony out of therapy last week, made no last-minute appearance.

Sure, headaches lie ahead for Tony. The Feds are still after him. And Meadow's fiance, Patsy Jr., is a lawyer who may well be pursuing cases that intrude on Tony's business interests.

So what else is new?

The finale displayed the characters continuing, for better and worse, unaffected by the fact that the series is done. The implication was, they will go on as usual. We just won't be able to watch.

Of course, Leotardo (Frank Vincent) hit a dead end after Tony located him with the help of his favorite federal agent. The execution was a quick but classic "Sopranos" scene: Pulling up at a gas station with his wife, Leotardo made a grand show of telling his two young grandchildren in the back seat to "wave bye-bye" as he emerged from his SUV. The next moment he was on the pavement, shot in the head.

Then you heard the car roll over his head. Carunnnchh! Quick, clinical, even comical, this was the only violence during the hour.

Not that Chase (who wrote and directed this episode) didn't tease viewers with the threat of death in almost every scene.

This was never more true than in the final sequence. On the surface, it was nothing more momentous than Tony, his wife, Carmela (Edie Falco), Meadow and A.J. meeting for dinner at a cozy family restaurant.

When he arrived, Tony dropped a coin in the jukebox and played the classic Journey power ballad "Don't Stop Believing." Meanwhile, every moment seemed to foreshadow disaster: Suspicious-looking people coming in the door or seated at a table nearby. Meadow on the street having trouble parallel parking her car, the tires squealing against the curb. With every passing second, the audience was primed for tragedy. It was a scene both warm and fuzzy yet full of dread, setting every viewer's heart racing for no clear reason.

But nothing would happen. It was just a family gathering for dinner at a restaurant.

Then, with a jingle of the bell on the front door, Tony looked up, apparently seeing Meadow make her delayed entrance. Or could he have seen something awful - something he certainly deserved - about to come down?

Probably not. Almost certainly a false alarm. But we'll never know. With that, "The Sopranos" cut to black, leaving us enriched after eight years. And flustered. And fated to always wonder what happened next.


Copyright © 2007 The Modesto Bee.

 

[dwell]

I thought my DVR stopped recording. A weak cop out ending. Boo.

 

[SirFshAlot]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
People will want to justify this ending as artistic brilliance after they wasted some 80+ hours on the show. If it was half the people who saw it wouldn't be cursing at DC & co. and threatening to cancel their HBO subscriptions.

different perspectives
those hours weren't wasted for me, as I spent them enjoying what WAS offered

David Chase brought an entertaining series to us, with or without last night's episode


nice post, Legendary

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: Platypus

Originally posted by: Adaman
Fitting ending for the series. I don't see why people are so angry about it, if you've been watching the whole series, it shouldn't of been surprising/disappointing how it ended.

I've seen every single episode and I can still see why people would think it was mildy disappointing, I fail to see what you mean by your comment.

I liked how the ending was just a typical American family sitting around eating onion rings and going about their business, not being able to parallel park, showing up late for dinner, being completely normal and average; which was kind of Chase's idea for the show anyway.. I liked the suspense of keeping you on your toes making you think that Tony was going to be killed.. I just think Chase knew that no matter what he did people would be upset so he left it up to the viewer to roll their own.

The show really started to decline after the 4th season anyway, it's kind of a good thing they ended it in my opinion.

On a completely unrelated note, John From Cinncinatti was awesome, can't wait to see more of this show.

I agree, but I do understand what adaman means. The show has never been much for closure or tying up loose ends. I really disliked the ending immediately after watching, but after thinking about it this morning, I think one of the articles quoted above summed it up well when saying the episode tells us that Sopranos' life continues, we just aren't allowed to watch anymore.

John from Cincinnati is really, really weird. I'm not sure what to think of it yet.

 

[Excelsior]

On a completely unrelated note, John From Cinncinatti was awesome, can't wait to see more of this show.

Excellent. I downloaded it and will watch it today. I hoped it would be good.

 

[purbeast0]

You know after the episode last night, I was really really pissed. So were most of my friends as my cell phone was blowing up as soon as it ended.

But today, when reading this thread and thinking about it, the ending didn't really piss me off that much. I just wanted some 60 minutes of war in that episode and it didn't happen.

Although I think as a whole last nights episode sucked. It focused way too much hon AJ who is basically a worthless character in the show.

I dunno, I'm still up in the air as to whether or not I liked it. But one thing is for sure, everyone is talkin about it today.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm just glad that cock sucker Phil got whacked.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: OrByte
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

I'm glad I didnt waste 5-6-7 whatever many seasons watching that show. What a JOKE!!!

was thinking the same thing. comcast had a special for HBO $5 a month so I finally decided to try it out. looks like it's worth exactly that. Glad I didn't waste my time watching the rest of this junk series.

You're both insane. While the series finale was a huge letdown, the series itself is incredible and one of the best shows ever made.

No kidding. Someone that decides to watch only the finale of an 8 year long show really has no place in making any qualifications about it.

 

[Qwest]

I had heard they filmed 3 different endings so that no one on the set would be able to leak the ending. Hopefully they will be on DVD for u faithful viewers.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: RKS
Initially I thought my cable went out, then I said WTF aloud.

so did I, i have dish and flipped to another channel just to be sure. that ending sucked, i have seen better endings on cheap porn that what the sopranos served us last night.

what a worthless ending. the only good part was when whats his name gets popped at the gas station and the car runs over his head and all the bystanders are puking...

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
When he arrived, Tony dropped a coin in the jukebox and played the classic Journey power ballad "Don't Stop Believing."

That song has the lyric "Oh, the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on"

Guess that's the plan for The Sopranos, and explains why the ending wasn't an ending.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: BoomerD
When he arrived, Tony dropped a coin in the jukebox and played the classic Journey power ballad "Don't Stop Believing."

That song has the lyric "Oh, the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on"

Guess that's the plan for The Sopranos, and explains why the ending wasn't an ending.

i caught that too, maybe a movie in the future? but i dunno how you can make a movie out of a drama like this show.

 

[PottedMeat]

I liked it - though I had only seen the first ep. of this season and the final two. At first I thought the recording had screwed up and missed some of it. Then I thought WTF was that? After reading about the characters present in the diner - the ending seemed appropriate.

 

[purbeast0]

Anyone else feel that Phil's death was almost TOO over the top?

I mean with the way the car was left in gear, then ran over his head, then they showed everyone ooooo'ing and awing and then they even showed one guy throw up?

It was almost comedic and just kind of felt out of place, like something you would see in one of those parody movies.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: tangent1138


it's actually kinda brilliant.

there's no ending that would've been satisfactory.
Tony dead? Too melodramatic. Tony in jail? Realistic but depressing.
Tony conquers the entire NY family? Optimistic but not realistic.

It's an ending that isn't an ending. The characters get to live on as if they're real people.

i agree. at first I didnt like the ending at all. But after some more thought, it's brilliant...simply because we dont know. I think he's dead but the uncertainty of it is the best part

 

[FiddleDD]

Originally posted by: dr150
If anyone remembers back this season when Tony and Bobby where on the boat and and he asks "what do you think happens when you die?" and Tony replies, "nothing, it just goes black."

Tony is dead.

Very smart

 

[SoulAssassin]

There's no question in my mind that he's dead I just think the whole thing was poorly done. It was an attempting to show a character's death in a unique way and it ended up being confusing and just plain bad.

I musta sucked to be a Comcast/whatever phone rep last night. 100 million people probably called to complain that there cable went out at the worst possible time.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
Anyone else feel that Phil's death was almost TOO over the top?

I mean with the way the car was left in gear, then ran over his head, then they showed everyone ooooo'ing and awing and then they even showed one guy throw up?

It was almost comedic and just kind of felt out of place, like something you would see in one of those parody movies.

Yeah it was funny. But come on...Phil killed off a lot of the "Home Team", and Chase at least gave the Audiance what they wanted.

The whole finale seemed like a "Kill Bill" movie. When you take the Audience and put their sub-conscious in control.