Sort of hardware related. Who makes good recievers? (home stereo)

[TGCid]

do your research of speakers, recievers, etc. here audioreview

 

[Workin']

<<Power transistors make worlds of difference in the quality of the amplified output. I'm aware that some people can't tell the difference, but to a trained ear they do.>>

Prove it. Operated within their (however modest) limits, I have never seen or even heard of a scientifically valid test that confirms this. And I've been deeply involved in audio equipment since the mid-70's.

It's just like the story about the Emperor's new clothes.....

Speakers are ALWAYS the weakest link. In fact, I would argue that it's practically impossible to buy an A/V reciever that is not at least OK. The second weakest link is usually the recording. Not the CD player or what have you, but the actual recording itself.

 

[The Sauce]

I had the opportunity to compare a Denon and a Yamaha in my home on the same set of speakers. They were both approximately equivalent in terms of price and rated wattage. The denon was the 3200 (I think), and I cant remember what model the Yamaha was. At first I was disappointed with the Denon because it was considerably less powerful. But then after listening to the Denon and switching back to the Yamaha, I realized how big a difference there was in tone and sound quality. The Denon blew the Yamaha away. The Denon was smooth, warm and had exceptional clarity in the mids and highs, although a bit lacking in the bass (which I made up for with a sub). I could not even listen to the Yamaha after that...it just annoyed me as being too bright and brassy with muddled highs - although considerably more powerful.

I would strongly recommend Denon over Yamaga as far as integrated receivers go. I have never listened to a Macintosh o other super high-end brands.

 

[jamarno]

Snatchface, how can an amp be &quot;bright and brassy&quot; and at the same time have &quot;muddled highs&quot;? Since every decent amp has practically ruler-flat frequency response from 20-20,000 Hz (and rolls off smoothly beyond that range) and aren't that sensitive to the speaker load, your treble had to be turned up and your tweeters inferior.

Your description is just like something straight out of Audio Snob magazine, and it's been shown a couple of times that those reviewers can't tell the difference between modestly priced and extremely expensive amps when testing is done blind. But there is good evidence that numeric measurements correlate with blind subjective opinions of people who have good ears for music.

 

[jamarno]

Extremus-X, it's been about 25 years since the FTC mandated that audio amplifier power be specified according to continuous &quot;RMS power&quot; per channel at the advertised bandwidth and distortion level, and manufacturers of all but the cheapest equipment have been fairly good about honoring this, at least for home audio (car audio is another matter). But it actually doesn't matter much how the power is rated so long as everybody uses the same rating method, and the FTC standard is a perfectly reasonable one. By the way, I put &quot;RMS power&quot; in quotes because it's actually _average_ power measured with RMS voltage or current. But you knew that.

There's no difference in the quality or reliability between amps that use power ICs and those that use discrete output transistors, but those ICs can cost over $50 apiece to replace, while a pair of transistors may cost only $10.

Glen and Workin' are right about amps and speakers. Speakers are not only the worst component in almost any audio system, but even the best speakers rarely give sound that can't easily be distinguished from live music.

 

[Gleo]

Stick with the best- in this case I would recommend Yamaha or Denon. Both are very solid recievers and are consistantly at the top of the average consumer market. I have owned three Yamaha recievers so far and haven't been dissapointed yet. Yamaha reciever have the fastest surrond prossesing chips on the market- how big of a deal is that to the average peron? Not a biggie- but it will decode those effects fast baby! Yamaha recievers also have a great selection of DSP fields and effects. Remotes get really confusing the further you go up- some serious options lead to some serious remotes.

Anyway-

If you are looking to build a system- I wouldn't buy the reciever first- I'd purchase speakers first for sure. Most audiophiles feel that more than 50% of the overall cost of the system should be spent on your speakers. THe speakers are the component that reproduce the sound- so if you skimp, it doesn't matter how good your reciever is- the sound will suck regardless. Granted speaker technology hasn't come that far in the last 30 years but that doesn't mean you don't get what you pay for- there are still differences in the quality of the various woofers, tweeters, and miranges out there- add in the various different designs in enclosures and you can really get a large price and sound quality range. With recievers and other electronic components there have been leaps and bounds in certain PARTS of technology- Surround SOund has made leaps and bounds but amplifier sections have pretty much remained unchanged- although they have been tweaked quite a bit. Basically what I'm saying is spend more cash on good speakers and spend less- or save for the reciever. My thoughts on mid-range recievers: Technics has made some strong mid-range recievers in the past seveal years- they have pretty good amplifier sections that remain cheap but provide strong- relativly clean power- Sheerwood is actually one of the best buys in the home theater market- very stong amplifier sections mated with mid-line sound processing units.

ANyway,

Spend more on your speaks- start there- then build the rest.

My two cents.


I also recommend buildign your own speakers. You can save hundreds.

I built speakers for $400 dollars in parts at my friends woodshop and I was offered 1200 a piece for them.

Walnut and oak- nice covers and everything.

peace

 

[sandorski]

It's easier to say what's crap, then what's best.

If it says Yorx, Craig, Transonic, Ensonic, or some other no-name brand with &quot;ic&quot; or other hi-techy suffix on the end, steer clear! Sony, Sanyo, JVC, and many other brands are ok. I'd put Yamaha somewhere between ok and great, depending on Model, although this applies to many brand named product lines. Most Receivers with the features you want will probably be quite good, so it's best to determine what you are willing to pay first, then choose.

 

[pjs]

I think the Sony str-db840 and str-db940 offer a good compromise between quality and affordability. The DB series is between Sony's ES (high end) series and DE (lower-end) series. Doing a web search should turn up prices between $360 and $500, more if you have excess cash you want to get rid of.

The lowest price I found was at inetshopping.com but if you can find a good price at a local dealer, go for it. The DB series has pre-amp outputs on all channels which is important for me beings I intend to use external power amps for the front L and R channels (Acoustat 2+2s).

I also agree in regards to selecting the speakers first if you do not already have them.

Paul

 

[Noriaki]

Wow this guy's getting long

I'd sort of forgotten about this thread

thanks for all the input.