Sound Upgrade

[wanderica]

I've been building for over a decade now and it dawned on me that the one area I've neglected this entire time is audio. The last time I did anything with sound was a Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum back in 2005. It wasn't even PCIe, I don't think. I'm still using my Logitech Z-5500 speakers that I bought at the same time along with a set of Sennheiser HD212s that are now falling apart.

At any rate, all of my sound equipment (aside from my integrated audio) is now 13 years old, and it's high time for an update. Are sound cards still a thing? What are people using now? A quick Newegg search left me a touch confused. there are several brands to choose from these days as well as Amps, USB sound cards, external, internal, and other things. What are the go-to speakers these days?

I want crisp, clear sound, not Beats by Dre. Is an add in sound card plus a good speaker setup still the best way to achieve this or has on board audio come far enough to meet most reasonable expectations?

 

[UsandThem]

Some onboard sound solutions rival add-in sound cards. Some do it better than others. When Intel launched the Z170 motherboards, many of the better boards had Realtek ALC1150 onboard, and when done right it was pretty good. The top current Realtek codec is ALC1220, and once again it depends on how the motherboard manufacturer implemented it. I am very particular on the sound quality, and both my Gigabyte and Asrock board did not disappoint in audio quality. They isolated the channels, and I get zero interference with my sound. Of course sometimes you need to play around to get the perfect sound for you, and many times sound cards like Creative have their cards EQ'd for a warm sound with plenty of bass.

As far as sound cards go, you will either choose Asus or Creative. Here is a previous thread about the same subject in November:

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/recommend-a-sound-card-please.2528356/#post-39189278

After my Logitech Z-2300 set died a few years back, I replaced them with Logitech Z-623s, but I don't think they sound as good as the set they replaced. You'd probably be better offer buying some bookshelf speakers, adding a sub, and running it through a receiver or amplifier. It just depends on how much you want to spend. I bought my latest Logitech set for $99, and they are good enough. A little bass heavy, but when I seriously want to hear some great accurate sound, I usually use my headphones.

Many people like external sound cards, but I really don't have any experience with them, so I will just let someone else discuss that part.

 

[OlyAR15]

Best way to get great sound is to bypass the computer audio altogether. Run an optical cable from the Toslink connector to a stereo amp, then get a good 2.1 speaker system (not computer speakers). Be prepared to spend a few hundred dollars on the speakers alone.

 

[wanderica]

Thanks for the replies. I had considered getting a receiver. It would be a great solution as I do run television and my console through my z5500 speakers. Speaking of those, I think it's one of those "didn't know what I had" kind of situations. The more I read about them, the more I realize they're pretty fantastic. They're going for more than they retailed for on ebay, after all.

Currently, I just have cables run from the motherboard (Realtek ALC892, btw) to the Logitech control hub along with optical from the PS4. I was looking at the Sound Blaster Z - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...&cm_re=sound_blaster_z-_-29-102-053-_-Product and a receiver. If I go that route, I'll need a subwoofer in the short term to go with it. I've always been partial to Yamaha's products for home audio. Something like the RX-V383 maybe?

 

[richaron]

I prefer the audio interface and powered "studio monitors" route, although obviously there are alternative routes one can choose. And to get into my price range I am way (way) down into the entry level gear.

Given the choice I'll never go back to audio without a proper volume knobs (and LED levels are super nice) which is why I like desktop audio interfaces. Even the small "affordable" units can have top of the line components and pro audio quality. Plus I can plug a proper mic into them and hook up to other gear (depending on features). At the moment I'm using an old Mackie Onyx Blackjack because it was convenient, but I would recommend something like an Audient iD4 for someone starting out with a simple setup. And something like an Arturia AudioFuse is where I'd like to end up as a nice personal system.

For speakers I'm running a small 2.0 set of iLoud Micro Monitors and I'm loving size and performance plus bluetooth is convenient. Admittedly there's only so much you can do with 3" drivers but these perform in the same ballpark as other 4-6" entry level monitors which I've owned in the past. And if I wanted to upgrade (given the space and budget) I would just look up the range of powered 2.0 studio monitors. I don't think most people realise how much bass a nice 2.0 setup can produce, and I suspect most would be happy without a sub woofer, although that's obviously also an option.

Obviously there's a bunch of options for all of these, plus choosing headphones/headsets is worth another thread on it's own, I've just given a few examples of how I went about audio. If OP wants specific recommendations then they need to provide much more info. But I will say that if anyone spends a dime on audio gear it should be running strong 13 years down the track.

 

[wanderica]

I prefer the audio interface and powered "studio monitors" route, although obviously there are alternative routes one can choose. And to get into my price range I am way (way) down into the entry level gear.

Given the choice I'll never go back to audio without a proper volume knobs (and LED levels are super nice) which is why I like desktop audio interfaces. Even the small "affordable" units can have top of the line components and pro audio quality. Plus I can plug a proper mic into them and hook up to other gear (depending on features). At the moment I'm using an old Mackie Onyx Blackjack because it was convenient, but I would recommend something like an Audient iD4 for someone starting out with a simple setup. And something like an Arturia AudioFuse is where I'd like to end up as a nice personal system.

For speakers I'm running a small 2.0 set of iLoud Micro Monitors and I'm loving size and performance plus bluetooth is convenient. Admittedly there's only so much you can do with 3" drivers but these perform in the same ballpark as other 4-6" entry level monitors which I've owned in the past. And if I wanted to upgrade (given the space and budget) I would just look up the range of powered 2.0 studio monitors. I don't think most people realise how much bass a nice 2.0 setup can produce, and I suspect most would be happy without a sub woofer, although that's obviously also an option.

Obviously there's a bunch of options for all of these, plus choosing headphones/headsets is worth another thread on it's own, I've just given a few examples of how I went about audio. If OP wants specific recommendations then they need to provide much more info. But I will say that if anyone spends a dime on audio gear it should be running strong 13 years down the track.

That is a route I hadn't considered. A bit of looking points to some reasonably affordable setups too. The only drawback to that is the cost of getting into surround sound with that equipment. I use my PC speakers for movies too, and I have come to love 5.1 and Dolby for that. If I understand it all, I would still need a receiver for that. However, I do have an old Yamaha connected in the den with analog 5.1 inputs.

 

[richaron]

That is a route I hadn't considered. A bit of looking points to some reasonably affordable setups too. The only drawback to that is the cost of getting into surround sound with that equipment. I use my PC speakers for movies too, and I have come to love 5.1 and Dolby for that. If I understand it all, I would still need a receiver for that. However, I do have an old Yamaha connected in the den with analog 5.1 inputs.

True the surround sound thing might not work as well my route. I also own a Steinberg UR28M interface which I purchased partially because it has 6 analog outputs which could (in theory) drive a 5.1 setup. I never spent much time with it though, partially because surround always seemed a bit of a novelty to me and I never bought enough speakers, but mostly because I switched to full time Linux and this device didn't play well.

So it is entirely possible to go the surround studio monitor route without a receiver, but I don't think it would work out of the box like other options... Not sure though. And often an interface with spdif outputs allows DTS passthrough, but you are correct you'll need an appropriate receiver for this anyway.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Best way to get great sound is to bypass the computer audio altogether. Run an optical cable from the Toslink connector to a stereo amp, then get a good 2.1 speaker system (not computer speakers). Be prepared to spend a few hundred dollars on the speakers alone.

Basically this, with two caveats:

1) Producers actually mixing the music usually (maybe usually) just use a pair of studio monitors, no subwoofer. Some people with larger studio spaces use fancy "studio subwoofers", but it's as much a religious debate as a technical requirement, imho. A good set of monitors will adequately reproduce the full frequency range.

2) Some speakers (usually lower end ones, but that doesn't mean they're terrible) have USB or optical connections and their own onboard d/a converter. It's a way to save space, and eliminates any potential cable noise, because the signal is all-digital until it gets to the speaker. This pair is pretty decent: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/373758-REG/Behringer_MS40_MS40_2_Way_40_Watt.html

For me, if I tried to "feel the bass" I'd probably get killed in my sleep, so a simple stereo pair of speakers is good enough for me.

 

[OlyAR15]

Thanks for the replies. I had considered getting a receiver. It would be a great solution as I do run television and my console through my z5500 speakers. Speaking of those, I think it's one of those "didn't know what I had" kind of situations. The more I read about them, the more I realize they're pretty fantastic.

Not really, but hey, if you are happy with them, that's all that counts. Just don't listen to real speakers.

I have a set sitting in the crawlspace of my house. Got tired of the sound, ended up biting the bullet and getting decent speakers and receiver. Maybe I should sell the Logitechs on Ebay.

 

[DaveSimmons]

In my home office I have an Onkyo receiver left over from upgrading the living room setup, and a nice pair of Polk bookshelf speakers. I use this for the music jukebox (optical digital connection) and work PC (analog out from motherboard).

To me, music sounds just as clean from the motherboard analog out as from the optical digital. There is no hiss or hum or missing low or high end. It's been that way for my last 3 work PCs so at least 10 years (Core 2 quad, Sandy Bridge, Kaby Lake).

Different motherboard chipsets might have more features, but they will generally just be ways to process the sound -- EQ or DSP effects. For straight uncolored sound the $10 motherboard sound chips are now very good. High-end motherboard might also include placebos like gold-plated connectors, or nonsense like a tube amp.

The one gotcha is if you want 5.1 game audio over an optical digital cable. On PC this requires a motherboard or sound card that has licensed real-time lossy 5.1 encoding using Dolby or DTS, since optical digital lacks the bandwidth for uncompressed 5.1.

 

[wanderica]

OK, after much research, I think decent equipment is the way to go. There's a ton of options though, so I think I'll take Richaron's advice and start with 2.0. I can always add-to, I suppose. so, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Focusrite Scarlet Solo - https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Sc...68833&sr=1-3&keywords=focusrite+scarlett+solo

JBL LSR305 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F1DEI8G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A25IRTXJ3Y3DFH&psc=1

Toslink 3x1 switch - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQ2R38C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2IX3RNQE846HA&psc=1

RCA to TS cables

All total comes to $379.42, and it should sound amazing. Any last minute critiques before I pull the trigger? Thanks again for all of the advice here.

 

[richaron]

OK, after much research, I think decent equipment is the way to go. There's a ton of options though, so I think I'll take Richaron's advice and start with 2.0. I can always add-to, I suppose. so, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Focusrite Scarlet Solo - https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Sc...68833&sr=1-3&keywords=focusrite+scarlett+solo

JBL LSR305 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F1DEI8G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A25IRTXJ3Y3DFH&psc=1

Toslink 3x1 switch - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQ2R38C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2IX3RNQE846HA&psc=1

RCA to TS cables

All total comes to $379.42, and it should sound amazing. Any last minute critiques before I pull the trigger? Thanks again for all of the advice here.

Awesome. I think you'll be very happy with a setup like that. A Couple of points:

• I hope you know what the Toslink switch is for because none of that other stuff uses optical.
• There's a switch on the back of the monitors +4 for balanced input and -10 for unbalanced.
• Since those monitors (and most like them) are rear ported you'll need to make sure they aren't flush against a wall at the back.
• Lastly, depending on your setup, you might be interested in isolation pads to put under the monitors. Their main purpose is mostly snake also but slanted ones can be helpful to point the monitors up or down a little.

So my only niggling problem would be the RCA unbalanced outputs from the interface. But to be realistic it shouldn't be a problem, it just doesn't feel very audiophile-ish

 

[wanderica]

Awesome. I think you'll be very happy with a setup like that. A Couple of points:

• I hope you know what the Toslink switch is for because none of that other stuff uses optical.
• There's a switch on the back of the monitors +4 for balanced input and -10 for unbalanced.
• Since those monitors (and most like them) are rear ported you'll need to make sure they aren't flush against a wall at the back.
• Lastly, depending on your setup, you might be interested in isolation pads to put under the monitors. Their main purpose is mostly snake also but slanted ones can be helpful to point the monitors up or down a little.

So my only niggling problem would be the RCA unbalanced outputs from the interface. But to be realistic it shouldn't be a problem, it just doesn't feel very audiophile-ish

The switch is just to get 2 opticals connected. Luckily I have a huge executive style oak desk, so no worries with placement. I did get the pads too actually. Yeah, the unbalanced cables made my eye twitch a little too, but since I'm not likely to do any mixing, it wasn't worth the 50 extra bucks to get the next model up.

 

[richaron]

The switch is just to get 2 opticals connected. Luckily I have a huge executive style oak desk, so no worries with placement. I did get the pads too actually. Yeah, the unbalanced cables made my eye twitch a little too, but since I'm not likely to do any mixing, it wasn't worth the 50 extra bucks to get the next model up.

Sorry I'm still not understanding. Because the interface you listed doesn't have an optical input. It sounds like it would be useful for you, but you'll have to get more into the mid-range small interfaces for an optical input. Maybe something like the Audient id14 here or here or here.

 

[wanderica]

Whew. I'm glad you caught that. I don't know how I missed it. That Audient would do nicely. I'll need to see if I can justify the extra expense.

 

[richaron]

Whew. I'm glad you caught that. I don't know how I missed it. That Audient would do nicely. I'll need to see if I can justify the extra expense.

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, this means a much more expensive interface, but glad you caught it before committing.

I listed those Amazon bundles because (with minimal searching) that's about the cheapest to get the Audient iD14 plus you can save a little with "free" bundled cables or headphones (you said your headphones were falling apart?).

Plus that interface has 2 analog inputs which means (until you need to plug in a microphone) you can have a stereo (2 channel) analog input plus the optical. So maybe you don't need the optical switch if one of those sources can also be analog.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You could start with the JBLs, connect them to your motherboard, and see how you like the sound that way before buying the USB DAC.

 

[wanderica]

You could start with the JBLs, connect them to your motherboard, and see how you like the sound that way before buying the USB DAC.

That's actually the plan. I was able to cancel the Amazon order. As luck would have it, I found them on Massdrop a few minutes ago at $179 for a pair with free shipping. Couldn't pass that up.

 

[Dranoche]

A pair of LSR305's from Massdrop or on sale for about $200 or less are some of the best value speakers for a desktop.

Anything marketed as an "audio interface" will be more recording oriented and will probably lack an optical input until you get up around at least $300. A DAC with an optical input can generally be picked up for $100-150. For about $150-250 total you can probably add a headphone amp with pre-outs for speakers or maybe a DAC/amp combo unit with all of that.

You usually won't get balanced stereo pre-outs until well over $500, but unbalanced should be fine for a desktop setup. The only thing balanced interconnects can be guaranteed to do is help reduce or remove interference introduced along the cable run, which shouldn't be an issue on short runs around a desk. Balanced interconnects can help with ground loops, but that assumes that every piece of equipment is already properly grounded internally. A ground loop with all balanced equipment/interconnects needs an isolation transformer ($$-$$$). The optical cable is a smart idea because because most motherboards have an optical out, a DAC or DAC/amp with an optical input can be had affordably, and it electrically decouples the setup from your computer, which can be a nasty source of unwanted noise for a variety of reasons.

Keep in mind that if you're using the unbalanced inputs, a mini TRS out from the computer or RCA from the interface needs to go into the LSR305 with a TS plug.

 

[DaveSimmons]

If you just need analog out from the PC because the PC motherboard outs are picking up RFI or hiss, then even cheaper is a USB DAC aka "USB soundcard" which start at $4.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If you just need analog out from the PC because the PC motherboard outs are picking up RFI or hiss, then even cheaper is a USB DAC aka "USB soundcard" which start at $4.

I'd probably go a little upmarket and get something like this. OP probably doesn't need the recording features but it's got a nice pair of 1/4" line outs on the back, that will work nicely with the JBLs, with no other adapters or other fiddling around needed.

 

[wanderica]

OK. I ended up with a set of JBL LSR30Xs from Massdrop (same as LSR305), but I kept everything else the same as listed above. These monitors are incredible. For now, I've kept the Logitech z5500s connected to the TV and PS4 for Dolby and DTS. Music on my PC has never been better. I'll likely add a subwoofer at some point, but I don't really miss it as much as I thought I would. Plenty of bass out of these little things. Thanks for all of the recommendations people.

 

[carsubs10]

Not really, but hey, if you are happy with them, that's all that counts. Just don't listen to real speakers.

I have a set sitting in the crawlspace of my house. Got tired of the sound, ended up biting the bullet and getting decent speakers and receiver. Maybe I should sell the Logitechs on Ebay.

Not really, but hey, if you are happy with them, that's all that counts. Just don't listen to real speakers.

I have a set sitting in the crawlspace of my house. Got tired of the sound, ended up biting the bullet and getting decent speakers and receiver. Maybe I should sell the Logitechs on Ebay.

Good info.

 

[Yuriman]

For speakers I'm running a small 2.0 set of iLoud Micro Monitors and I'm loving size and performance plus bluetooth is convenient. Admittedly there's only so much you can do with 3" drivers but these perform in the same ballpark as other 4-6" entry level monitors which I've owned in the past. And if I wanted to upgrade (given the space and budget) I would just look up the range of powered 2.0 studio monitors. I don't think most people realise how much bass a nice 2.0 setup can produce, and I suspect most would be happy without a sub woofer, although that's obviously also an option.

I'm considering replacing my 5.1 system with a pair, and those look like they might fit the bill, but my only concern is about the directionality of the sound. Reviewers note that they are not going to fill a room, and that they sound off if you're even just outside of the triangle.

Ideally I'd aim for something around the size of the iLouds, with ~$300 being a reasonable upper limit, $200 preferable.

These Vanatoos looked good, except that they're really pushing the budget I'd like for them:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N33WUJ9/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2V7IC2O00JO6U&colid=TFIPPIB4S2BC&psc=0

I could work with a pair of ProSonus 3.5's, and the price is right, but the cabinet is larger than I'd like:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075QVMBT9/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2X0715GSVWWU7&colid=TFIPPIB4S2BC&psc=1

Any thoughts/recommendations on a pair of monitors that aren't too directional, on the smaller side, and closer to $200? I'm not terribly picky about sound but it would be nice if they were truly full range.

 

[mlhm5]

Hope I am not too late for speakers

Polk LSi7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-LSi7-...887051?hash=item590751be8b:g:xAEAAOSwrslaejE0

Review
https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/795/index.html

AMP
https://audioengineusa.com/shop/amplifiers/n22-desktop-audio-amplifier/

Review
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/audioengine-n22-desktop-audio-amplifier-playback-45/