South Africa’s decline is the worst of nations not at war

[MooseNSquirrel]

If only they had "hope and change".

Yeah, because that brings competence and effectiveness. #MAGA is way better.

 

[UglyCasanova]

This.

While trying to stir the pot with "socialism" and "social justice" he forgot to be concerned about graft and corruption, incompetent public officials, tribalism and racism, and overall strongman populist policies pushed to favor a few racial groups and punishing others.

All that's missing is trade wars and tariffs. MSAGA!

Its sad seeing a beautiful country tear itself apart through grievance politics.

I never said anything about socialism. Yes your list seems to be why South Africa is failing as a state and I alluded to it in my post. I agree it’s a terribly sad thing to see because SA is a beautiful place that has so much potential. I think you and I are in agreement but took an unnecessary swipe at me I guess to cover your bases I dunno.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

If only they put white people back in charge.

Mind naming me a country with majority black voters and majority black leaders that are first world countries that have minimal crimes ?

Oh who am I kidding.... It's all because the white man imperialism ruined them all and still continue to (based on your post). If only they (western countries - England/France in particular) hadn't done that they would all be prospering tremendously. It's that simple!

Nevermind countries that did have imperialism issues that were heavily conquered...numerous times... such as China... that somehow magically prospered.

But go ahead and do tell.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Mind naming me a country with majority black voters and majority black leaders that are first world countries that have minimal crimes ?

Oh who am I kidding.... It's all because the white man imperialism ruined them all and still continue to (based on your post). If only they (western countries - England/France in particular) hadn't done that they would all be prospering tremendously. It's that simple!

Nevermind countries that did have imperialism issues that were heavily conquered...numerous times... such as China... that somehow magically prospered.

But go ahead and do tell.

Thanks for confirming that you know pretty much nothing about world history.

 

[mect]

Mind naming me a country with majority black voters and majority black leaders that are first world countries that have minimal crimes ?

Oh who am I kidding.... It's all because the white man imperialism ruined them all and still continue to (based on your post). If only they (western countries - England/France in particular) hadn't done that they would all be prospering tremendously. It's that simple!

Nevermind countries that did have imperialism issues that were heavily conquered...numerous times... such as China... that somehow magically prospered.

But go ahead and do tell.

One of the most openly racist posts I've read hear on P&N. You've heard it hear folks, blacks are clearly inferior to whites, and should not be allowed to rule.

 

[Vic]

Mind naming me a country with majority black voters and majority black leaders that are first world countries that have minimal crimes ?

Oh who am I kidding.... It's all because the white man imperialism ruined them all and still continue to (based on your post). If only they (western countries - England/France in particular) hadn't done that they would all be prospering tremendously. It's that simple!

Nevermind countries that did have imperialism issues that were heavily conquered...numerous times... such as China... that somehow magically prospered.

But go ahead and do tell.

Yeah, you're right, it must be the color of their skin that's the problem.

 

[Ventanni]

You guys crack me up. If we cannot have an objective conversation about the decline of a foreign country without bringing Trump into the conversation, then you need to put your phone down and spend some time outside. We're talking about a breakdown in basic services like water, electricity, sewer, etc. South Africa's problems are very real and have nothing to do with American politics. They have nothing to do with Trump. They are nothing like the racism issues found here in the states.

Seriously guys, Trump ain't that important in your day-to-day lives. Your world doesn't revolve around him.

 

[Zstream]

You guys crack me up. If we cannot have an objective conversation about the decline of a foreign country without bringing Trump into the conversation, then you need to put your phone down and spend some time outside. We're talking about a breakdown in basic services like water, electricity, sewer, etc. South Africa's problems are very real and have nothing to do with American politics. They have nothing to do with Trump. They are nothing like the racism issues found here in the states.

Seriously guys, Trump ain't that important in your day-to-day lives. Your world doesn't revolve around him.

You mean these idiots that foam at the mouth whenever people criticize socialist policies? SA is what the race to the bottom looks like. It’s what happens when you promise bullshit to people who couldn’t get themselves into a meaningful position in life and blame the white man. People want to talk about history, and cleverly forget how this nation came to be, or western ideals in general.

Maybe ship the white people who have all this guilt to Africa, for appropriate reparations.

 

[UNCjigga]

You guys crack me up. If we cannot have an objective conversation about the decline of a foreign country without bringing Trump into the conversation, then you need to put your phone down and spend some time outside. We're talking about a breakdown in basic services like water, electricity, sewer, etc. South Africa's problems are very real and have nothing to do with American politics. They have nothing to do with Trump. They are nothing like the racism issues found here in the states.

Seriously guys, Trump ain't that important in your day-to-day lives. Your world doesn't revolve around him.

Jacob Zuma was a Trump like figure. He was corrupt before he assumed the presidency. He assaulted and demeaned women. He got along on a cult of personality. He had no business leading a country. He spouted off on things he knew nothing about ("showers after sex prevent AIDS" vs. "windmills cause cancer") and implemented the worst policies.

Fortunately for us, we have a system of government and "deep state" that can check the worst impulses of our president. SA didn't benefit from that.

 

[Genx87]

Mind naming me a country with majority black voters and majority black leaders that are first world countries that have minimal crimes ?

Oh who am I kidding.... It's all because the white man imperialism ruined them all and still continue to (based on your post). If only they (western countries - England/France in particular) hadn't done that they would all be prospering tremendously. It's that simple!

Nevermind countries that did have imperialism issues that were heavily conquered...numerous times... such as China... that somehow magically prospered.

But go ahead and do tell.

Realize colonialism set that region back a couple hundreds of years in terms of cultural and societal advance. It is like they were frozen in time while occupied. Once colonialism stopped the underlying groups were able to continue their path to consolidation. What the West went through 300+ years ago, Africa is still going through imo. We had our wars, our genocides, our consolidations in Europe and the Americas to move forward. Groups mostly settled their differences and moved on or were wiped out. It should be little surprise the other part of the world that also has a lot of instability and tribal wars is the Middle East. Where after WWI the allies screwed the Arabs who helped them fight the Ottoman Empire. Those borders designed by the allies grouped people who don't like each other under the same roof. Unsurprisingly they are killing each other in droves in an attempt to sort it out.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yeah, you're right, it must be the color of their skin that's the problem.

I wasn't the one who made assertions based on race or skin color silly buns. You are.

The problems in the countries I mentioned are deep and complex - so when you throw blankets on them and just say the equivalent of "it's the white people's fault" you are in fact the racist one.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

You mean these idiots that foam at the mouth whenever people criticize socialist policies? SA is what the race to the bottom looks like. It’s what happens when you promise bullshit to people who couldn’t get themselves into a meaningful position in life and blame the white man. People want to talk about history, and cleverly forget how this nation came to be, or western ideals in general.

Maybe ship the white people who have all this guilt to Africa, for appropriate reparations.

Sure thing genius, because in the USA -- despite years of institutional racism and bias -- black people are thriving and racism is gone! Yay Capitalism!

The one forgetting how SA came to be is your highly intelligent self. You aren't criticizing socialism, its populism (leading to corruption) and apartheid thats at the root cause of this: https://www.cfr.org/blog/despite-land-reform-south-africa-not-becoming-zimbabwe-or-venezuela

"But, perhaps the most fundamental reason for the focus on “expropriation without compensation” is the intractable reality of black poverty. The social and economic realities for the black majority in South Africa have changed little since apartheid, while the gulf between white wealth and that of other racial groups has probably increased. The causes of black poverty range from the ongoing consequences of hundreds of years of exclusion of black Africans from much of the economy to the persistent failure of primary and secondary education for blacks since the end of apartheid. There are many other factors, including the fact that South Africa has eleven legal languages, and English—the language of the international economy—is the first language of less than 10 percent of the population. But, “expropriation without compensation” presents itself as a solution to poverty. That is a more attractive alternative explanation for poverty that more abstract discussions around economic policy or the shortcomings of the educational system. "

OP and this ding dong are chasing a narrative that just isn't real, as is Bloomberg with its sensationalist headline. Conservative/capitalist America insists on going on at length about so called socialist countries like Venezuela being prime examples of why socialism doesn't work when in fact they are prime examples of why strongman leaders like Trump are really bad for a country, regardless of their economic policies. Also, why corruption as practiced by leaders like Trump is equally bad for a country.

Also, black people.

 

[Vic]

I wasn't the one who made assertions based on race or skin color silly buns. You are.

The problems in the countries I mentioned are deep and complex - so when you throw blankets on them and just say the equivalent of "it's the white people's fault" you are in fact the racist one.

Ah yes, I'm the real racist for pointing out your obvious racism.

You're just backpedaling now. Go re-read your earlier post, where you didn't say that the problems were deep and complex, but that the only reason Africa has not recovered from colonialism, while other colonized areas have, is because of race. That is what you said.

 

[Commodus]

That downfall of the US is indeed happening, but anyone thinking Trump is the cause is lying to themselves, rather he is an effect of the corporatism and greed of the last 30 years that has enriched the top 1% at the expense of the rest of the country all while politicians pay little more than lip service to the actual needs of the country as a whole.

When you constantly elect people that lie to you in order to get in to political office and then turn around and do what is best for their owners, eh donors,

Eventually there is a political backlash or blowback as some would like to put it, and then you act shocked and all that when you end up with this.

Yes, we get it. You and you alone have discovered that the system is corrupt, and it's your mission to enlighten us rubes with every forum post you make. We must all bow to your wisdom.

Seriously: can you please stop making posts like this? We know. More importantly, you're shitting on a thread about South Africa with some barely tangential fluff.

 

[brycejones]

Yes, we get it. You and you alone have discovered that the system is corrupt, and it's your mission to enlighten us rubes with every forum post you make. We must all bow to your wisdom.

Seriously: can you please stop making posts like this? We know. More importantly, you're shitting on a thread about South Africa with some barely tangential fluff.

The fun part is he never responds with what he is for.

 

[Jhhnn]

The fun part is he never responds with what he is for.

He's as much a concern troll as the OP.

 

[FelixDeCat]

South Africa is a nightmare of a country, like many other nations in Africa. Civil war, starvation and outright genocide have been the order of the day for decade after decade in many parts of the continent. In the few places that are relatively peaceful and successful, Muslim terrorists seek to destabilize - notably Kenya.

That goes for other nations around the world in similar situations like Venezuela, the armpit of socialism where the store shelves are empty, the economy is collapse and people are starving. Two people even claim to be president. No need to mention El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. Their populations have fled and are bounding over OUR border by the tens of thousands.

But there is no immigration crises, right Dems?

 

[Jhhnn]

South Africa is a nightmare of a country, like many other nations in Africa. Civil war, starvation and outright genocide have been the order of the day for decade after decade in many parts of the continent. In the few places that are relatively peaceful and successful, Muslim terrorists seek to destabilize - notably Kenya.

That goes for other nations around the world in similar situations like Venezuela, the armpit of socialism where the store shelves are empty, the economy is collapse and people are starving. Two people even claim to be president. No need to mention El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. Their populations have fled and are bounding over OUR border by the tens of thousands.

But there is no immigration crises, right Dems?

Needs more duh-version.

 

[Amused]

South Africa is a nightmare of a country, like many other nations in Africa. Civil war, starvation and outright genocide have been the order of the day for decade after decade in many parts of the continent. In the few places that are relatively peaceful and successful, Muslim terrorists seek to destabilize - notably Kenya.

That goes for other nations around the world in similar situations like Venezuela, the armpit of socialism where the store shelves are empty, the economy is collapse and people are starving. Two people even claim to be president. No need to mention El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. Their populations have fled and are bounding over OUR border by the tens of thousands.

But there is no immigration crises, right Dems?

Holy non-sequitur, Batman!

 

[Commodus]

South Africa is a nightmare of a country, like many other nations in Africa. Civil war, starvation and outright genocide have been the order of the day for decade after decade in many parts of the continent. In the few places that are relatively peaceful and successful, Muslim terrorists seek to destabilize - notably Kenya.

That goes for other nations around the world in similar situations like Venezuela, the armpit of socialism where the store shelves are empty, the economy is collapse and people are starving. Two people even claim to be president. No need to mention El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. Their populations have fled and are bounding over OUR border by the tens of thousands.

But there is no immigration crises, right Dems?

South Africa is a mess, but it's not a nightmare. And arguably the main cause? It's populist ideology in the vein of Trump. The country was in better hands when it relied on pragmatic, more liberal government under Mbeki.

I'm not sure why you felt obliged to talk about the rest of Africa, Venezuela or Latin American migrants, but I shouldn't be surprised... you're just a drone who repeats GOP talking points without thinking for yourself.

 

[Victorian Gray]

South Africa is a nightmare of a country, like many other nations in Africa. Civil war, starvation and outright genocide have been the order of the day for decade after decade in many parts of the continent. In the few places that are relatively peaceful and successful, Muslim terrorists seek to destabilize - notably Kenya.

That goes for other nations around the world in similar situations like Venezuela, the armpit of socialism where the store shelves are empty, the economy is collapse and people are starving. Two people even claim to be president. No need to mention El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. Their populations have fled and are bounding over OUR border by the tens of thousands.

But there is no immigration crises, right Dems?

#fuckofftroll

 

[FelixDeCat]

South Africa is a mess, but it's not a nightmare. And arguably the main cause? It's populist ideology in the vein of Trump. The country was in better hands when it relied on pragmatic, more liberal government under Mbeki.

I'm not sure why you felt obliged to talk about the rest of Africa, Venezuela or Latin American migrants, but I shouldn't be surprised... you're just a drone who repeats GOP talking points without thinking for yourself.

SA is a nightmare. Blacks have it bad for lack of opportunity and high crime with a poorly run government that favors them over the white minority who have it even worse.

And if you happen to be an Afrikaner farmer, well, you're just screwed. You are killed because of your skin color. As I mentioned before, genocide has plagued most of Africa for decade after decade such as the slaughter of Tutsis at the hands of Hutus, who were killed by the 100s of thousands.

Even in other parts of Africa life is a struggle just to even get by. There are tonnes of videos on youtube I could post here.

Lack of infrastructure and employment, population growth that far exceeds available resources are actually a problem worldwide.

 

[Commodus]

SA is a nightmare. Blacks have it bad for lack of opportunity and high crime with a poorly run government that favors them over the white minority who have it even worse.

And if you happen to be an Afrikaner farmer, well, you're just screwed. You are killed because of your skin color. As I mentioned before, genocide has plagued most of Africa for decade after decade such as the slaughter of Tutsis at the hands of Hutus, who were killed by the 100s of thousands.

Even in other parts of Africa life is a struggle just to even get by. There are tonnes of videos on youtube I could post here.

Lack of infrastructure and employment, population growth that far exceeds available resources are actually a problem worldwide.

The reports of a surge of racially motivated farm killings are fake news. It's not that farm killings don't happen, but they're actually at a relative low point, and there's no clear evidence they're motivated primarily by race -- farmers may be targeted simply because they're perceived as wealthy. The very fact that there's violence is a problem, but please don't believe the lies about a surge or the supposed racial bias.

The government is a mess, but... well, there's an election on May 8th. I'm curious to see how things change after that. I'm not expecting a sudden reversal, but it would be nice if the Democratic Alliance gained some ground.

It's also false that white people have it unambiguously worse in South Africa. While the ANC unsurprisingly is focused on the black community, the fact is that many white South Africans still tend to live in significantly better conditions and have opportunities that their black counterparts often don't. For example, they're more likely to speak English and thus do more international business.

There are also different approaches depending on which white community you're talking about. Afrikaaners typically have it best, since they were the dominant power until apartheid ended and tend to have the largest white populations in major cities like Johannesburg and Cape Town. British South Africans (like those in Natal) sometimes have it rougher simply because they're neither black nor the largest white community.

 

[Amused]

SA is a nightmare. Blacks have it bad for lack of opportunity and high crime with a poorly run government that favors them over the white minority who have it even worse.

And if you happen to be an Afrikaner farmer, well, you're just screwed. You are killed because of your skin color. As I mentioned before, genocide has plagued most of Africa for decade after decade such as the slaughter of Tutsis at the hands of Hutus, who were killed by the 100s of thousands.

Even in other parts of Africa life is a struggle just to even get by. There are tonnes of videos on youtube I could post here.

Lack of infrastructure and employment, population growth that far exceeds available resources are actually a problem worldwide.

I can post videos of flat earth and chemtrails.

So tell me, when was the last time you were in South Africa?

 

[Greenman]

I can post videos of flat earth and chemtrails.

So tell me, when was the last time you were in South Africa?

Do you have to go there to know if it's good or bad?
I have no idea either way, though it seems like they were out of water a few months back, that's never a good thing. As far as the rest goes, they'll either get their act together or the nation will collapse, that almost never ends well.