Soyo K7VME Problem

[Spektre]

I assembled one of these barebones kits about a month ago and it is working great EXCEPT....

How do you people keep this thing cool? I have tried 3 heat sink and just installed a case fan and I am still idling at 61-62 degrees with the case buttoned up. When I run a video benchmark, it spikes up to 70 degrees! Yikes!

I can knock it down to 51-53 with the case open and a room fan blowing on it (not my intended configuration).

Any ideas, where is yours running at?

Spektre

 

[sumanta]

I got this MOBO SY-K7VME from tigerdirect.com last month. I plan on installing linux on it. I do not see any CMOS BIOS option to set PnP OS to NO. Without this setting Network Cards do not work as I have tried with other motherboards. Please share your experience.

 

[impudence]

The really bizarre thing about this barebones kit from tigerdirect is that if you go to the soyo website and look at it the power supply is oriented in the other direction so as to not cover the heatsink. Furthermore of you look at the case only of this computer on tigerdirect it is also poriented differently. I wonder if Soyo realized they had messed up and thats why these things are going for 19 bucks?? It really is the most stupid set up I have ever encountered.

Anyway to get to my actuall question what heatsinks are people using on these computer to keep it cool? I ordered a vantec aerocool and have an athlon xp 3000 going in. I'm very nervous about the heat.

 

[bartbrn]

This is the one to use:

Thermaltake TR2 M2 Tip-Magnetic Driving (TMD) CPU Cooling Fan for Socket 370 and Socket A Processors up to AMD Athlon XP 3400+

Considerably more clearance between the heatsink and the PS.

It IS a ridiculous design, considering all the acreage available in the case. Wonder if it would be worthwhile taking the PS outboard in its own external enclosure?

Bart Brown

Originally posted by: impudence

Anyway to get to my actuall question what heatsinks are people using on these computer to keep it cool? I ordered a vantec aerocool and have an athlon xp 3000 going in. I'm very nervous about the heat.

 

[Dr B]

It is very easy to screw up when mounting the heatsink on this board (I did). Remove the PS (it's only one screw) so you can get at it better. Go here http://www.omnicast.net/~tmcfa...es/Heatsink/index.html for the proper method. Also, I cut a hole in the case directly above the heatsink and mounted an extra fan blowing out of the case. Temp runs around 50-51 C. , down from 64-65.

 

[BigLar]

OK, time to give the devil his due. I RMA'ed the board to Soyo who replaced it. Their paperwork had a note that said something like, "Tested. Bad. Replace." I've rebuit the case with the original power source (200 W) with a Samsung HD, a DVD-RW, a Radeon 7500 video card and aWinfast PVR. So far its working well with no evidence of a power limitation.

Now if Soyo will only send me the $50 rebate that is 2 weeks overdue...

By the way, there's something I don't understand. I noted several comments about heat buid up, but the amount of heat has got to be determined by the current the CPU takes and the voltage it uses that current at. It seems to me that this is a function of the CPU, not the motherboard. Now it could very well be that the cases used have inadequate air circulation, or it could be that the cables used on such a small board might obstruct the airflow, but I don't see how, with Watts = current * voltage, the motherboard can have much to do with the CPU operating temperature.

Can anyone set me straight?

 

[impudence]

By the way, there's something I don't understand. I noted several comments about heat buid up, but the amount of heat has got to be determined by the current the CPU takes and the voltage it uses that current at. It seems to me that this is a function of the CPU, not the motherboard. Now it could very well be that the cases used have inadequate air circulation, or it could be that the cables used on such a small board might obstruct the airflow, but I don't see how, with Watts = current * voltage, the motherboard can have much to do with the CPU operating temperature.

Can anyone set me straight?[/quote]

I think your confusion is in that most of the people bought a barebones kit from tigerdirect. The issue is not the motherboard the issue is that the power source is located 66mm over the cpu which means lack of airflow.

 

[TFord]

It may be a little late to jump in here, but I bought the barebones kit with the Athlon XP 2100+ from Tiger Direct last week. Yes, I'd heard the horror stories about TD, but I couldn't resist the price.

To address specific questions, 4x AGP cards are 1.5v and should work. However, my Abit Siluro GeForce4 Ti4200 supports 4x, but I get no signal to the monitor with it installed. I tried a GeForce2 MX400 I had sitting around, and it worked fine. I did then confirm the Ti4200 works in another machine, so it's the K7VME that doesn't like it. No response yet from Soyo Technical Support on this one.

Like some others, I've had no end of thermal problems with the barebones kit. The PSU Tiger sent me was slightly damaged, and its fan was moving very little air, so I went out and bought a decent 350w power supply. That seemed to improve ventilation, but didn't solve the thermal issues. I removed the HSF, removed the existing thermal compound, applied some Arctic Silver, and ensured the HSF had a good fit with the CPU. The net result of all that was the CPU idling at about 65 Celsius and anything placing a load on the CPU caused the temperature to climb toward 80, at which point the machine would reboot.

I decided I'd try some more case cooling, although I hate sinking more money into something I only bought because it was so cheap. I first decided to check the CPU out just for kicks, though, and discovered Tiger sent me a Palomino core rather than the Throughbred core they were advertising. I've not yet heard back WRT how they plan to remedy that, but even with the cooler TBred, I still think I'm going to have to try to get some more case ventilation going, and even then I'm not certain I'll be able to keep the CPU cool enough under load.

Personally, I haven't had issues with the onboard sound.

On the whole, I'd have to say the kit exhibits an extremely flawed design. I'm semi-optimistic I'll eventually get it working satisfactorily, but I suspect that with the time and money that will go into the fixes, I could have just bought a better mainboard and case from the get-go.

Just my $.02.

 

[BigLar]

Thanks impudence. That makes a lot of sense...and physics still holds true!

 

[bartbrn]

Originally posted by: Dr B

It is very easy to screw up when mounting the heatsink on this board (I did). Remove the PS (it's only one screw) so you can get at it better.

I slid the whole mobo and support out of the side of the case so I could work on the CPU and heatsink/fan with the board out in the open (and flat/horizontal).

Considering that most PCs are used in one physical location, has anyone tried an external, out-of-the-case power supply to remove a major heat source and improve airflow around the CPU?

Just a thought...

Bart Brown

 

[TFord]

Considering that most PCs are used in one physical location, has anyone tried an external, out-of-the-case power supply to remove a major heat source and improve airflow around the CPU?

FWIW, while I haven't done this on a permanent basis, I have removed the power supply from the case entirely and passed it's cables through the back of the case. This did improve temperatures a bit, although with the sides of the case still on, putting any load on the CPU still caused critical temperatures pretty quickly.

Moving the power supply out of the case and leaving the sides off in an air conditioned room with a ceiling fan did keep the machine up with a CPU load; it ran hot -- near 70 Celsius -- but it didn't go critical.

I have notes on all of the temperatures during these tests, but I don't have the numbers handy.

Again, this is all with the $99 barebones kit from TigerDirect which includes the CX5959 case and an Athlon XP 2100+ CPU (Palomino core, although it was supposed to be a Thoroughbred).

I haven't tried any auxilliary ventilation, and I suspect that more case fans and perhaps a better HSF than the one Tiger includes in the bundle would solve the problem. Rather than sinking more money into this, though, I'm going the return route.

 

[impudence]

I agree you should return it. Out of curiousity however what heatsink did they include?

 

[TFord]

The heatsink/fan included by default is shown here: http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...0812&sku=S457-1052

It's a Speeze with thermal resistance rated at 0.558 C/W and airflow of 22.21 CFM at 4800 RPM.

Interestingly, Tiger Direct sells that HSF for $15.99, which is the same as their price for the Termaltake TR2 M2. The fine print for the kit I ordered actually recommends the Thermaltake since it provides an extra 15mm clearance between the fan and power supply, and the Thermaltake is rated at 0.42 C/W with airflow 35.5 CFM.

The TR2 M2 appears to be a superior HSF overall, and the extra clearance would make it particularly nice for this application. Since the TD price for the two fans is identical, I don't know why they include the Speeze instead of the ThermalTake unless it's simply because folks aren't buying the Speeze and bundling it w/ the kit allows them to get rid of stock on hand. I wonder if I'd paid more attention and requested the TR2 M2 if they'd have put it in the bundle at the same cost.

 

[scosmo451]

I have the same MOBO and case, but with an Athlon 2500+ (minor oc at 2.08), but I have the TR2 M2 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...130&Sku=T925-2023). The fan is very nice and did drop my temps about 7C at full load with a little silver helping and it's quieter than the Speeze. HOWEVER, do not believe the line about it offering an extra 10mm - I measured mine at about 5mm difference. The newer cases they're selling at Tiger look essentially the same externally, but have the power supply and MOBO mounted properly, ie not on top of one another. I wish I had gotten one of those. Live and learn. The Dremel is coming out today for a little creative cooling solution.

 

[bartbrn]

I have yet to fire this sucker up -- time and circumstances have slowed my progress immensely -- but it's all wired up and ready to go... I hope. IDE 1 has just the WD Caviar 200 GB drive at its last connector (jumpered as "cable select," as WD advises), IDE 2 has a 52X CD-rom (master) and dual-layer CD/DVD R-RW (slave). I think I have all the fans and peripherals wired up correctly (though I don't seem to have an internal header to connect the USB2 cable from the Flash Card Memory Multi-Reader FDD -- I'll figure it out eventually). Since this is the first time I've done this, I'm fairly well-convinced I'm gonna fry the whole thing on start-up, so if anyone has any last suggestions, mantras, prayers, mojos, or whatever, please lay 'em on me -- I'll be really bummed if I cook this Athlon.

I never did get an answer to my question -- do you PC guys ever use outboard (as in "not inside the case") power supplies to ameliorate some of the heating problems?

Peace out

Bart Brown

 

[scosmo451]

It'll fire up fine. It's really not that hard to put a computer together right. It's the dang software that causes most of the problems.

As to having the power supply outside, yes, I've done that. Actually, I'm doing it right now. Gets awful dusty inside, though.

 

[bartbrn]

Originally posted by: scosmo451
It'll fire up fine. It's really not that hard to put a computer together right.

Well. apparently it is for me... I just fired mine up: the pretty lights came on, it sounded like the drive was spinning up, and then, after no more than five seconds, it simply shut down. No attempt to restart it has been successful. I don't know where to go from here.

I *do* have my suspicions: though Soyo claims this is a 350 watt power supply, the specs checked on the side of the PS run like so:

Rexpower PX-350
Output:
+3.3V@20A
+5V@40A
Max: 200W
+12v@16A
-5V@0.5A
-12V@0.8A
+5Vsb@2.5A

This sounds pretty weak-dick to me.

Is there some sort of reset I should try -- CMOS clear, maybe?

The system:
Soyo K7VME/Athlon 2800XP+ (Barton)/Thermaltake TR2 M2, in Soyo's notorious power-supply-right-on-top-of-cpu-fan case
Ultra PC2700 DDR 333MHz 512MB x 2
Chaintech GeForce FX 5700 / 256MB DDR / AGP 8X
Western Digital Caviar 200GB HD (Default/Cable Select on IDE1) -- is THIS correct? The HD is the only device on IDE1, connected to the last connector on the ribbon.
52X generic CD-ROM drive (Master on IDE2)
Megastor (NEC) Dual Layer DVD Burner combo drive (Slave on IDE2)
Mitsumi FDD/multi-media reader

CPU FSB Jumper (JP3) set to 166MHz (for 333MHz FSB) -- is THIS correct?

And yes, I bought Microsoft Windows XP Home Full Version -- obviously not yet installed...

Help!

Bart Brown

 

[scosmo451]

Sorry about that.

First off, I'll tell you how mine is set up different from what you describe. I have my hard drive on IDE2 and my CDROM (Master) and Burner (Slave) on IDE1. Don't ask me why, but I do and it works. But having those set up wrong would still let you post.

When it fired up, was the CPU fan spinning? The TR2M2 hooks to its own power supply and also has a yellow wire going to the CPU for RPM sensing. If that yellow wire isn't connected, no fan is sensed and the board will shut down. I suggest skipping the adjustability of the TR2 on fireup by unplugging the wire going to the adjuster and plugging it straight into the board. It will be sensed and will run at max speed that way. I've got mine hooked up that way permanently and have the controller running a case fan. Also, my TR2 didn't spin right from the get go. Even with the controller set to high, I started it spinning with my finger and it's been fine ever since. That may be just my fan. If the board doesn't see any RPM, it will shut down.

This shouldn't stop it from booting, but make sure the JP3 jumpers are correct. I've heard of misprints between book and board (mine's right), but the correct jumpers should be the two jumpers closest to your AGP - they work on mine (2500+ Barton 333mhz).

And, yes, I'd short the CMOS just for the heck of it.

Good luck.

 

[scosmo451]

Please forgive a few omissions above - I was just waking and draggin butt.

Pull out your video card for now. Leave one stick of RAM in for now. Disconnect your burner and media reader. You can put them back in later. The idea is to get it down to what your motherboard came with, plus RAM, of course. Once you get XP installed, it can pick up these extras readily.

 

[bartbrn]

Originally posted by: scosmo451

<<When it fired up, was the CPU fan spinning?

Yep, right from the git-go.

<<I suggest skipping the adjustability of the TR2 on fireup by unplugging the wire going to the adjuster and plugging it straight into the board. It will be sensed and will run at max speed that way.

I'll try that too.


<<This shouldn't stop it from booting, but make sure the JP3 jumpers are correct. I've heard of misprints between book and board (mine's right), but the correct jumpers should be the two jumpers closest to your AGP - they work on mine (2500+ Barton 333mhz).

Thanks -- I'll check that out tonight (and yes, there is a misprint between book and board -- the way it's shown in the book is 90 degrees off what's on the board)

<<And, yes, I'd short the CMOS just for the heck of it.

I have to short the CMOS every time I go to restart after a startup failure, and man, is it a pain -- the manual warns to ALWAYS disconnect the ATX12V auxiliary power cable, which is so buried behind the PS, that I have to pull the mobo base to do it (and, of course, disconnect all PCI and AGP cards). It won't take many more try,try agains before I bite the bullet and move that PS right down to the empty acreage at the bottom of the case.

<<Pull out your video card for now. Leave one stick of RAM in for now. Disconnect your burner and media reader. You can put them back in later. The idea is to get it down to what your motherboard came with, plus RAM, of course. Once you get XP installed, it can pick up these extras readily.

Thanks, I've had many others suggest the same strategy since last night, and that will be my next attempt.

BTW, I have to confess that when I first put the Thermaltake CPU fan and heatsink on, I had a bit of a struggle with the damned clip -- I should have read mechBgon's PC-building guide all the way through before even *touching* a component, but being the impatient sort... well, anyway, the screwdriver slipped once and tapped the board lightly (and I mean really lightly). I couldn't see any broken or even nicked traces, but, because I'm also the pessimistic, worrying type, I've fretted since that there may have been damage to the mobo that I can't see.

Just a thought.

Thanks again for all your help -- frankly, I was astounded that I got so far as having the lights come on and the fan spin up.

Bart

 

[scosmo451]

Well, they don't call it bootup for nothing....kick the damn thing.

I've had a few screwdriver slips myself. I'm guessing there's not much near that area or I surely would have ruined the board many times. And I would definitely pull the PS down. Makes that cramped situation a lot better. Or just leave the motherboard tray cocked open.

Did you try narrowing it down to just the motherboard?

 

[bartbrn]

Originally posted by: scosmo451

<<Well, they don't call it bootup for nothing....kick the damn thing.

Get thee behind me, Satan! I'm ready to LAUNCH the damned thing...

<<Did you try narrowing it down to just the motherboard?

I was going to do that last night, but you know how sometimes you get home after a long Monday and you're just not up for one more frustration? I didn't want to tempt fate in that frame of mind. I'm a huge believer in John Muir's (How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive) work ethic: your attitude directly affects the quality of your work. I took a break...

Thanks again for your help (and spiritual support)

Bart Brown

 

[BigLar]

Bartbrn:

Your experience sounds similar to what I had, Fan spins,light on fan lights, no post.

Board was DOA.

Think about RMAing the sucker. They'll charge you $5 for handling, and they'll warn you that if there's nothing wrong they'll ship the same board back (duh...), but at least you'll get a good lookover.

I'm doin' OK with mine now.

 

[bartbrn]

Originally posted by: BigLar
Bartbrn:

Your experience sounds similar to what I had, Fan spins,light on fan lights, no post.

Board was DOA.

Think about RMAing the sucker. They'll charge you $5 for handling, and they'll warn you that if there's nothing wrong they'll ship the same board back (duh...), but at least you'll get a good lookover.

I'm doin' OK with mine now.

Did you buy the whole barebum kit or just the K7VME? I think I talked with one of TigerDirect's "Support" Reps, and he told me that I'd have to send the whole megillah back: case with PS, mobo, 52X No-Namo CD-ROM, clickety-clack keyboard, mouse, and the famous Soyo "Tin Ear" speakers. Kind of a PITA, but maybe the last resort. I have an email in to Soyo tech -- I expect to hear from them any decade now.

Glad you're doing well -- what's the rest of your system like?

Regards and thanks

Bart

 

[BigLar]

Bart:

I bareboned the thing from scratch. Mobo and Enlight case from Newegg, 2600+ XP CPU and memory form I don't remember where, Radeon 7500 from my brother, WinTek PVR, DVD +- RW from whatever was on sale that week at OffieMax.

I put it together as a PVR and its doin' OK. Not as reliable as the Tivo downstairs, but more flexible. I also like the ability to record NPR on the weekends and listen later.

Bad news is really this, and this is the only place I wil admit it (!), it would have been cheaper to buy another Tivo!

My comments about RMAing were fro return of the mobo to Soyo, Tiger might not be so accomodating.

I still think your mobo was DOA...