Speculating about God

[moonbogg]

This is not intended to be a fight thread or debate thread. If you think there is no God and you are settled on that issue, this thread is probably not for you. This is for believers and for those who are agnostic or agnostic/atheists.
The thread is simple. Explain why you either think or know God exists, or why you suspect God may exist. That's it. I will describe some of my reasons for suspicion below, and yes, I'm sure you've heard them all before, but they are my suspicions that I arrived at on my own.

Something exists: I find it odd that something at all should exist. I am conditioned to think in a cause an effect way, so I think that an eternal first cause could make sense and might even be necessary.

Experience: It seems odd to me that experience exists in any form at all. it doesn't matter how it happened, but that it exists is enough to cause suspicion.

Good things exist: This is subjective, but things are still good from a subjective point of view. Happiness, love, purpose, feelings of rapture and wonder etc. They all exist. If they are false and illusory, it doesn't matter. If they evolved for other purposes, it doesn't matter. The fact is these things exist, and this causes suspicion.

Side note: Bad things exist

Bad things existing do not erase the good things. The fact that good things exist still holds, and the suspicions that I get from those good things still hold. I take my entire personal experience at face value. I understand the experiences of others might not be as pleasant as my own, but this doesn't erase my own experience, and the fact that good experiences exist leads to suspicion.

 

[norseamd]

ever think of humans as pawns that are manipulated by the gods?

also what about the trinity.

amun - horus - re

brahma - krishna - shiva

yahweh - jesus christ - holy spirit

also the third eye is common is many religions across eurasia including the ones i mentioned

and also the mesoamericans had 9 levels of the underworld just like christianity

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't think any of the religions have it right. I can't see this whole universe being created so we can occupy this little itty bitty corner of it and feel as if we're somehow special. But, the universe had a beginning, and beyond what is presently observable may hold quite a few surprises. I don't feel that we can absolutely rule out some kind of higher power, but nothing I see points to any of the current popular religions being correct.

 

[moonbogg]

I don't think any of the religions have it right. I can't see this whole universe being created so we can occupy this little itty bitty corner of it and feel as if we're somehow special. But, the universe had a beginning, and beyond what is presently observable may hold quite a few surprises. I don't feel that we can absolutely rule out some kind of higher power, but nothing I see points to any of the current popular religions being correct.

Agreed.

 

[norseamd]

I don't think any of the religions have it right. I can't see this whole universe being created so we can occupy this little itty bitty corner of it and feel as if we're somehow special. But, the universe had a beginning, and beyond what is presently observable may hold quite a few surprises. I don't feel that we can absolutely rule out some kind of higher power, but nothing I see points to any of the current popular religions being correct.

exactly. how do we know gods even exist. and if they do how do we know that what we think are certain gods are not just merely ways other gods have used to manipulate us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

 

[moonbogg]

exactly. how do we know gods even exist. and if they do how do we know that what we think are certain gods are not just merely ways other gods have used to manipulate us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

We don't know anything about God or if there even is one, IMO. But do you have your own suspicions about God? What are your reasons, if any, to suspect there may be one or many or whatever?

 

[smackababy]

I don't think any of the religions have it right. I can't see this whole universe being created so we can occupy this little itty bitty corner of it and feel as if we're somehow special. But, the universe had a beginning, and beyond what is presently observable may hold quite a few surprises. I don't feel that we can absolutely rule out some kind of higher power, but nothing I see points to any of the current popular religions being correct.

I sort of agree. I don't have a belief in Gods, but I would expect our limited understand of everything would be far too small to even begin to imagine what a god would encompass. We only think in terms of what humans can't do or control, which is a flawed way to describe a god.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Something exists: I find it odd that something at all should exist. I am conditioned to think in a cause an effect way, so I think that an eternal first cause could make sense and might even be necessary.

I've thought about this a whole lot. What I keep coming back to is that no matter what I put in that place SOMETHING had to exist with out a cause because I can just keep asking, 'what caused that, what caused that, what caused that?' all the way down. Once I accepted that cause and effect is not absolute then I could see that a 'first cause' is not needed.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Something exists: I find it odd that something at all should exist.

It becomes easier to understand when you attempt to imagine the opposite and realize its absurdity. "Nothing" is the state of absolute non-existence -- which couldn't really be a "state" at all, since "states" are predicated upon things. "Nothing" is not a thing. It is no-thing. It is basically absurd to suggest that there could be "nothing," so there must be something.

I am conditioned to think in a cause an effect way, so I think that an eternal first cause could make sense and might even be necessary.

I don't think causality operates in the way we suppose it does in our classical ideas. Even supposing it does, however, a first cause it not necessary. It strikes me as odd that a person should reason to the effect that "every observable state appears to be caused by a state before it, so I must reason that there is some observable that is not caused by the state before it." That's not really how inference works.

 

[moonbogg]

It becomes easier to understand when you attempt to imagine the opposite and realize its absurdity. "Nothing" is the state of absolute non-existence -- which couldn't really be a "state" at all, since "states" are predicated upon things. "Nothing" is not a thing. It is no-thing. It is basically absurd to suggest that there could be "nothing," so there must be something.


I don't think causality operates in the way we suppose it does in our classical ideas. Even supposing it does, however, a first cause it not necessary. It strikes me as odd that a person should reason to the effect that "every observable state appears to be caused by a state before it, so I must reason that there is some observable that is not caused by the state before it." That's not really how inference works.

Do you suspect there might be a god? If so, why?

 

[moonbogg]

I sort of agree. I don't have a belief in Gods, but I would expect our limited understand of everything would be far too small to even begin to imagine what a god would encompass. We only think in terms of what humans can't do or control, which is a flawed way to describe a god.

You think that even if there is a God, there is no way to wrap our heads around it due to our limited nature, is that right? That's why I don't worry too much about being perfect when describing my reasons for suspicion. I simply listed them out. Do you have any suspicion at all that there might be a God? If so, what are your reasons?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Do you suspect there might be a god? If so, why?

The most complete answer I can give you is that I do not know what this word "god" represents.

 

[moonbogg]

The most complete answer I can give you is that I do not know what this word "god" represents.

Fair enough. I have no appetite for a definitions war.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Finally a thread that delivers!! A thread where everybody can go around in circles and dodge and weave without being accused of not answering the question.....heheheee

or a quick answer to is there a God that I heard on television -- Only God knows..lolol

 

[moonbogg]

Finally a thread that delivers!! A thread where everybody can go around in circles and dodge and weave without being accused of not answering the question.....heheheee

or a quick answer to is there a God that I heard on television -- Only God knows..lolol

He doesn't have to answer if he doesn't want to. Some people have a conception of god, others don't. I don't expect him to answer a question that doesn't even make sense to him.

So, why do you think there is a god?

 

[norseamd]

The most complete answer I can give you is that I do not know what this word "god" represents.

do you know about the buddhist definition of a god

 

[JEDIYoda]

do you know about the buddhist definition of a god

I would bet you that Moonbeam can offer a very insightful answer.....

 

[moonbogg]

do you know about the buddhist definition of a god

Exactly. God doesn't have to be separate from us. All it means is that the experience of life is intentional and not an accident of nature. It was done on purpose. The how of it is irrelevant. You either suspect that the experience of life is intentional or its not.

 

[moonbogg]

I would bet you that Moonbeam can offer a very insightful answer.....

Your non answer of my question leads me to suspect that you hate yourself.

 

[smackababy]

You think that even if there is a God, there is no way to wrap our heads around it due to our limited nature, is that right? That's why I don't worry too much about being perfect when describing my reasons for suspicion. I simply listed them out. Do you have any suspicion at all that there might be a God? If so, what are your reasons?

Even our understand of 'nothing' before the universe. Even, before the big bang. What caused it that? We tend to think that something can't be created by nothing, but we only have an understanding of physics based in this universe. Prior to the big bang, physics could have been different. It had to be different, as something had to add the energy to the universe we reside in.

Do I believe whatever created that energy is a 'god'? Not particularly. Our universe could simply be a closed system that is part of some larger system where physics as we know it operate differently.

And, the ability to create energy (as some believe God did), is only looked as Godly, because it defies our understanding of physics. Which is why I think any rigid definition of a god is limited only by our lack of understand outside of the system we are a part of.

So, do I believe there is a man in the 'sky' always watching to make sure I follow a set of rules interpreted by someone not him from language nobody speaks? Of course not.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Your non answer of my question leads me to suspect that you hate yourself.

actually there is a group or even several groups of people who believe that we are God`s within ourselves....

 

[MongGrel]

“He was just Ron and I kinda liked him, mostly because he wrote well, and I never felt he took all that Scientology nonsense seriously but knew how to make a good buck, and he liked me, and... well, he was a friend who died.”
―Harlan Ellison

Boils down a lot of it to me.

http://www.cracked.com/video_18527_stuff-that-must-have-happened-why-popes-dress-like-that.html

 

[moonbogg]

Even our understand of 'nothing' before the universe. Even, before the big bang. What caused it that? We tend to think that something can't be created by nothing, but we only have an understanding of physics based in this universe. Prior to the big bang, physics could have been different. It had to be different, as something had to add the energy to the universe we reside in.

Do I believe whatever created that energy is a 'god'? Not particularly. Our universe could simply be a closed system that is part of some larger system where physics as we know it operate differently.

And, the ability to create energy (as some believe God did), is only looked as Godly, because it defies our understanding of physics. Which is why I think any rigid definition of a god is limited only by our lack of understand outside of the system we are a part of.

So, do I believe there is a man in the 'sky' always watching to make sure I follow a set of rules interpreted by someone not him from language nobody speaks? Of course not.

It sounds like you are agnostic without suspicions. It seems there is nothing about reality that makes you go, "This probably isn't an accident".
I am agnostic with suspicions. I just observe what its like to "experience" and sometimes think, "This may not be an accident. This feels like it was on purpose".

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Fair enough. I have no appetite for a definitions war.

Nor do I, nor was it my intention to bait you into one. It is the best answer to your question, I think, and I don't expect you or anyone else to remedy my admitted ignorance.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

do you know about the buddhist definition of a god

I am aware of many definitions of the word. With all those definitions I've yet to find one that describes something that exists in my reality which I am unable to adequately describe with other words.