Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Det0x]

AMD officially unveils Radeon RX 6000 series, starting at 579 USD - VideoCardz.com

AMD Unveils Next-Generation PC Gaming with AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Series – Bringing Leadership 4K Resolution Performance to AAA Gaming – Groundbreaking AMD RDNA™ 2 gaming architecture delivers up to 2X higher performance1 and up to 54 percent higher performance-per-watt compared to AMD RDNA™-based...

videocardz.com

Pricing and Availability

AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 and Radeon™ RX 6800 XT graphics cards are expected to be available from global etailers/retailers and on AMD.com beginning November 18, 2020, for $579 USD SEP and $649 USD SEP, respectively. The AMD Radeon™ RX 6900 XT is expected to be available December 8, 2020, for $999 USD SEP.

AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 and RX 6800 XT graphics cards are also expected to be available from AMD board partners, including ASRock, ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, PowerColor, SAPPHIRE and XFX, beginning in November 2020.

There wont be a AIB 6900 XT or do i misunderstand ?

 

[soresu]

It makes the most sense in my mind to have each Shader Engine be its own chiplet when AMD moves RDNA to a chiplet architecture. The Shader Engine has all of the complete parts to run the graphics pipeline so its the most basic building block that gets duplicated. The memory controllers, last-level cache (Infinity Cache), display connectors, codec engines, etc can be on an IO die. This approach pretty much mirrors how it's done on Zen 2/3.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321508972780609536

The near symmetrical look to that makes me think that 6700 XT will be basically half of it.

And yeah, it does seem that RDNA1 and RDNA2 are noticeably more modular than any true GCN die was (as opposed to clearly hybrid design in Renoir/Cezanne).

It should make chiplets a much easier next step from here.

Damn. Now I have to wait for RDNA3 to see that!!

Why you stoke the hype you fiend???!!!

 

[Mopetar]

Hey guys, I've been hiding out under a rock all day.

Did big Navi manage to equal up to the 3070?

Asking for a friend.

 

[ElFenix]

Hey guys, I've been hiding out under a rock all day.

Did big Navi manage to equal up to the 3070?

Asking for a friend.

maybe. maybe not.

 

[Glo.]

Hey guys, I've been hiding out under a rock all day.

Did big Navi manage to equal up to the 3070?

Asking for a friend.

Yes, but at 500W of power draw.

 

[swilli89]

I wish i had the time or dedication to go and find the posts by people saying big navi would be lucky to equal 2080 Ti. A eating crow thread if you will...

 

[DiogoDX]

Now the wait for a custom 6800XT begins.

 

[CastleBravo]

Hey guys, I've been hiding out under a rock all day.

Did big Navi manage to equal up to the 3070?

Asking for a friend.

Only in AMD optimized titles

 

[Det0x]

AMD Ray Accelerator appear to be slower than NVIDIA RT Core in this DXR (Ray Tracing) benchmark - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800XT ray tracing performance AMD has not been eager to share details on the ray tracing performance of its Radeon RX 6000 series at launch, but as it turns out, the manufacturer has revealed some details that can be directly compared to the NVIDIA Ampere series. AMD Radeon RX...

videocardz.com

With hardware acceleration disabled and simply relying on the Software DXR fallback layer, the AMD Radeon RX 6000 graphics card scored 34 FPS. With hardware acceleration enabled & making full use of the newly added Ray Accelerator cores, the AMD Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card saw a 13.8x speedup. The same RDNA 2 graphics card scored 471 FPS in the application which is a huge uplift in performance.

Comparing to NVIDIA's first generation ray-tracing implementation, the GeForce RTX 2080 scores around 308 FPS. This means that the AMD RDNA 2 based Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card scores a 50% lead over NVIDIA's first generation RTX graphics card. The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti scores around 390 FPS which puts the AMD Radeon RX 6000 graphics card 20% ahead.

A user on AMD's subreddit posted the score of his stock ASUS GeForce RTX 3080 TUF Gaming graphics card which delivered 630 FPS in the same benchmark. This shows the 2nd Generation RT cores at around 33% faster than AMD's 1st Gen Ray Accelerator cores.

We still don't know which graphics card was used for this comparison as the RDNA 2 lineup includes the 60 RA RX 6800, 72 RA RX 6800 XT and the 80 RA 6900 XT graphics card.

There's a lot that needs to be discussed about AMD's ray tracing implementation and we hope AMD provides us more details in the future prior to the embargo lift which should be sometime in the coming month.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

AMD Ray Accelerator appear to be slower than NVIDIA RT Core in this DXR (Ray Tracing) benchmark - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800XT ray tracing performance AMD has not been eager to share details on the ray tracing performance of its Radeon RX 6000 series at launch, but as it turns out, the manufacturer has revealed some details that can be directly compared to the NVIDIA Ampere series. AMD Radeon RX...

videocardz.com

With hardware acceleration disabled and simply relying on the Software DXR fallback layer, the AMD Radeon RX 6000 graphics card scored 34 FPS. With hardware acceleration enabled & making full use of the newly added Ray Accelerator cores, the AMD Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card saw a 13.8x speedup. The same RDNA 2 graphics card scored 471 FPS in the application which is a huge uplift in performance.

Comparing to NVIDIA's first generation ray-tracing implementation, the GeForce RTX 2080 scores around 308 FPS. This means that the AMD RDNA 2 based Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card scores a 50% lead over NVIDIA's first generation RTX graphics card. The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti scores around 390 FPS which puts the AMD Radeon RX 6000 graphics card 20% ahead.

A user on AMD's subreddit posted the score of his stock ASUS GeForce RTX 3080 TUF Gaming graphics card which delivered 630 FPS in the same benchmark. This shows the 2nd Generation RT cores at around 33% faster than AMD's 1st Gen Ray Accelerator cores.

We still don't know which graphics card was used for this comparison as the RDNA 2 lineup includes the 60 RA RX 6800, 72 RA RX 6800 XT and the 80 RA 6900 XT graphics card.

There's a lot that needs to be discussed about AMD's ray tracing implementation and we hope AMD provides us more details in the future prior to the embargo lift which should be sometime in the coming month.

Is that benchmark DXR 1.0 or 1.1?

 

[Krteq]

Comparing to NVIDIA's first generation ray-tracing implementation, the GeForce RTX 2080 scores around 308 FPS. This means that the AMD RDNA 2 based Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card scores a 50% lead over NVIDIA's first generation RTX graphics card. The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti scores around 390 FPS which puts the AMD Radeon RX 6000 graphics card 20% ahead.

Where is that number from?

I can see 324FPS for RTX 2080 Ti in that DirectX SDK DXR sample

 

[Midwayman]

Mixed feelings, but great job on competitive cards.

• 6800xt has more memory, yet (likely) worse RT and DLSS type upscaling. It also has a lot to overcome on the the driver front. $50 isn't a lot cheaper at that price point. I guess it depends on how much you think 10gb of memory will hurt you in a few years.
• 6900xt seems like a win at first, but its still a poor value vs the 6800xt. The inevitable 3080ti that is rumored will probably make this a hard choice.
• The price on the 6800 seems high honestly. The 3070 seems like a better buy for $80 less and the better RT/DLSS and drivers. Granted there is a big memory advantage, but 16gb is really overkill at this level. The rumored 3070ti sounds much better at this price point.

 

[CastleBravo]

Mixed feelings, but great job on competitive cards.

• 6800xt has more memory, yet (likely) worse RT and DLSS type upscaling. It also has a lot to overcome on the the driver front. $50 isn't a lot cheaper at that price point. I guess it depends on how much you think 10gb of memory will hurt you in a few years.
• 6900xt seems like a win at first, but its still a poor value vs the 6800xt. The inevitable 3080ti that is rumored will probably make this a hard choice.
• The price on the 6800 seems high honestly. The 3070 seems like a better buy for $80 less and the better RT/DLSS and drivers. Granted there is a big memory advantage, but 16gb is really overkill at this level. The rumored 3070ti sounds much better at this price point.

That is pretty much my view on it as well. Honestly, I think I would pony up the extra $50 for a 3080 just to have the best eye candy possible in Cyberpunk, but that is assuming I could actually get a 3080 for MSRP.

 

[EXCellR8]

That's if you can actually get a 3080...

1,000 bones is a little steep on the top tier... do i really need those extra 8 CU's? price on the 6800xt quite a bit easier to digest

Not jumping on consoles this gen, at least not yet, so I have a little play money.

 

[Gideon]

I can't help but think that the biggest loser in this renjuvated competition between AMD and Nvidia is ... Intel. I wonder how Raja feels now, or how much of this he expected.

As he stepped aside in September 2017, he certainly knew stuff about the project, like the perfomance target of 50% perf/watt over RDNA1. But this could have very well ended up like it did on Polaris (clocked to such extremes that f the efficency gains were essentially eliminated)

I certainly doubt he expected 65% more perf/watt on the top-of-the-line GPU @ 300W.

To me it still seems unreal to think that AMD released their first 7nm 60CU 300W TBP GPU innoly February 2019 (tbf professional versions were available in November 2018) and By November 2020 they have doubled up it's perfomance on the same exact node, having the same TDP and only half the memory bandwidth.

... and people are claiming that TSMC is the only thing behind AMDs success.

 

[Shivansps]

6900XT price is A LOT for just 8CU more, and i expected more out of it for the 80CU part RDNA2 with infinity cache, it performs x2 the 5700XT.

The 6800XT based on AMD own slide, losses in 4 out of 10 tests vs the 3080 with 1 being a tie, so considering RT perf that is likely yo be slower, the price is fine at $649 due to extra memory balancing this out.

The problem to me is the 6800, because if the 6800 cost $579, what would be the price for the 6700XT? and how much faster it will be compared to the 5700XT? These results make it seems like RDNA2 is not that much faster than RDNA1 per CU.
Lets remember that RX 5700XT price was already high at $399 and this make me belive that 6700XT may be $499.

 

[Saylick]

6900XT price is A LOT for just 8CU more, and i expected more out of it for the 80CU part RDNA2 with infinity cache, it performs x2 the 5700XT.

The 6800XT based on AMD own slide, losses in 4 out of 10 tests vs the 3080 with 1 being a tie, so considering RT perf that is likely yo be slower, the price is fine at $649 due to extra memory balancing this out.

The problem to me is the 6800, because if the 6800 cost $579, what would be the price for the 6700XT? and how much faster it will be compared to the 5700XT? These results make it seems like RDNA2 is not that much faster than RDNA1 per CU.
Lets remember that RX 5700XT price was already high at $399 and this make me belive that 6700XT may be $499.

If the 6700XT is a 40CU RDNA 2 part, the 6800 is probably like 35% faster than it since the 6800 has 50% more CUs but the 6700XT will likely be clocked much higher. Just scaling down the 6800 price of $579 by 1.35 gives a price of around $429, which I think is reasonable.

 

[Glo.]

Lets remember that RX 5700XT price was already high at $399 and this make me belive that 6700XT may be $499.

AMD is undercutting Nvidia on price and rasterization performance.

Why would RX 6700XT be the same price as RTX 3070?

There is absolutely no reason to do so. Its going to be the same price, as 5700XT.

 

[gx_saurav]

Most of the GPUs are sold at around $350 and this is where AMD is likely to make most money.

RX 6800 at $ 579 seems more costly even though it gives better performance compared to a RTX 3070. 16 GB RAM won't matter much at 1440p or 1080p for next year and two and by then better performing GPUs will be out.

If AMD can give equivalent performance to a RX 5700XT at under 200W TBP and $300 with RX 6700XT, I think they will have a money maker and winner in their hand. It could very well be Ryzen 5 3600 of GPUs.

 

[Shivansps]

AMD is undercutting Nvidia on price and rasterization performance.

Why would RX 6700XT be the same price as RTX 3070?

There is absolutely no reason to do so. Its going to be the same price, as 5700XT.

I have this bad feeling that if is $399 it is because is not that much faster than the 5700XT. Lets say it is 25% faster, at $399 that would put it way too close to the 6800, and it would likely match or be better than a 3070, NOTHING that AMD has done this year so far makes me belive they are going to give you more perf for the same price. They are more than capable of making the RX 6700XT $499 matching (or improving) 3070 perf while offering more ram and price the 6700 at $399.

 

[Stuka87]

6900XT price is A LOT for just 8CU more, and i expected more out of it for the 80CU part RDNA2 with infinity cache, it performs x2 the 5700XT.

The 3090 is $800 more than the 3080 for roughly 10-15% more performance. If anything AMD's pricing is significantly better.

Also, the 6900XT (based on AMD's benchmarks) is more than 2x a 5700XT. A 5700XT scores 60fps at 4K max quality in Forza Horizon 4, a 6900XT scores 169fps in the same game at 4K.

 

[SPBHM]

obviously we have to wait for external testing, but the results look really good, a very nice improvement from prior gens,

I'm not a fan of the pricing at all, but it looks like the market reacts well to this sort of pricing nowadays... Nvidia really did it...

it will be very interesting to follow this, if AMD can deliver a good RT experience in actual games (synthetic benchmarks are not that interesting, the real world mixed load is the challenge, it looks like AMD's approach has less specific hardware to offload the workload compared to Nvidia, so it might struggle more when the game is doing the RT + typical load)

I hope they can release some cheaper new cards soon also,

The 3090 is $800 more than the 3080 for roughly 10-15% more performance. If anything AMD's pricing is significantly better.

Also, the 6900XT (based on AMD's benchmarks) is more than 2x a 5700XT. A 5700XT scores 60fps at 4K max quality in Forza Horizon 4, a 6900XT scores 169fps in the same game at 4K.

3090 is a huge vram increase from the 3080, 6900XT is the same as the 6800,

 

[Kenmitch]

Heh, all those shades...

That was a good video. I wonder why they just didn't include it in the presentation. The points he poke pun at were spot on in the end. I think it was well thought out and executed. He had me sold and I'm not really looking for a new gpu!

interesting that the spec page on amd recommends 850w psu for 6900xt but 750w for 6800xt when they are both rated at 300w tdp

The 6900XT will pull more watts if you start pushing the clocks.

 

[YBS1]

So glad to see the 6900XT being this competitive with the 3090. It's been I guess back in the AMD Thunderbird / 9700 Pro days (if you want to consider ATI as AMD for this purpose) since I last had an all AMD system as my main pc. I just hope I can manage to grab both a 6900XT and a 5950X on launch day. I'm needing all the computing muscle I can manage since getting this Samsung Odyssey G9 (which is as stunningly awesome as it's made out to be).

 

[Stuka87]

3090 is a huge vram increase from the 3080, 6900XT is the same as the 6800,

Yes, but is it an $800 increase? You can buy two 3080's* for the price of one 3090*.

*Assumes you can actually find any cards at retail prices