Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Mopetar]

This is partly because the chips were compute heavy cards. And at launch this did nothing. The cards supported features that would not be used for years. Which did give the cards long lives. A 7970 for instance performed significantly better than a GTX 680 5 years down the road. But that was/is kind of a moot point.

RDNA seems to offer much better performance for a given shader count than GCN did, which is partly due to AMD making RDNA less compute heavy, and leaving that for CDNA where it belongs.

Im aware of all that and it's why I expect AMD to do a lot better this time around. However for someone who doesn't follow everything too closely or pay attention to important details that make a difference it's easy to see they can have this pessimistic expectation about AMD.

 

[Panino Manino]

Even with 2x improvement in performance and power, can "Big" Navi compete with Ampere?
Tell me it can compete with Ampere's 30 Teraflops, without even considering RT and Tensor.
Tell me, please, tell me how will AMD catch and pass Nvidia.

 

[Olikan]

Even with 2x improvement in performance and power, can "Big" Navi compete with Ampere?
Tell me it can compete with Ampere's 30 Teraflops, without even considering RT and Tensor.
Tell me, please, tell me how will AMD catch and pass Nvidia.

Did you paid attention? Ampere regressed kinda hard on perfomance per flop against Turing... Then again, i don't expect amd to beat the 3090

 

[Panino Manino]

Did you paid attention? Ampere regressed kinda hard on perfomance per flop against Turing... Then again, i don't expect amd to beat the 3090

Does it matter when Nvidia had the advantage?
If lower performance with more power was ok for AMD, why then it is a problem for Nvidia to deliver MUCH more performance for a bit more power? If it's not threatening to fry the PCI-E like some Polaris boards did who will care if Ampere is trouncing "Big" Navi?

 

[CastleBravo]

Did you paid attention? Ampere regressed kinda hard on perfomance per flop against Turing... Then again, i don't expect amd to beat the 3090

I would be shocked if AMD beat the 3090, but they might beat the 3080 by a decent margin. Of course, NV has lots of room to maneuver between the 3080 and the 3090 if they are really built on the same die. All they have to do is enable a few more CU, bump up the memory bus or clock, give it 12 or 20 GB of vram, and boom they have a 3080 ti.

 

[Karnak]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300842481886662658

 

[Kuiva maa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300842481886662658

Well if they have something that can beat the 3080, they might as well just harvest the best chips, clock them as high as possible TDP be damned, slap an AIO and get close to the 3090.

 

[DiogoDX]

Well if they have something that can beat the 3080, they might as well just harvest the best chips, clock them as high as possible TDP be damned, slap an AIO and get close to the 3090.

I think the last rumor was big navi at 275W. I also think they could overclock to the same 350W as the 3090 and put an AIO and gain a good performance uplift.

 

[Kuiva maa]

I think the last rumor was big navi at 275W. I also think they could overclock to the same 350W as the 3090 and put an AIO and gain a good performance uplift.

I am having a VII and looking to upgrade. I am not feeling the 3080, VRAM is too low and there will be a 20GB model coming for sure, possibly with higher core count. It is either big navi or the 3090 for me.

 

[blckgrffn]

Well if they have something that can beat the 3080, they might as well just harvest the best chips, clock them as high as possible TDP be damned, slap an AIO and get close to the 3090.

Haha, drop the gloves and give us 10% more performance, 30% more power usage and who knows how much higher of a price. $1,500 is the upper bound now, right?

 

[NostaSeronx]

Be interesting if the whole console supply on 7nm pushes AMD's product line to F18 5nm.

Turing 12nm 2080 (September 20, 2018) => Radeon VII 7nm (February 7, 2019)
Ampere 8nm 3080 (September 17, 2020) => Radeon ??? ?nm (???)

1H 2020 1st order => 7nm ~20,000
1H 2020 2nd order => 5nm(1.0) ~20,000
2H 2020 1st order => 7nm ~30,000
2H 2020 2nd order => 5nm(1.1) ~30,000

20,000 @ MP onwards of 1.0(N5) to 30,000 @ MP onwards of 1.1(N5P)

 

[Konan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300842481886662658

Yeah "RTX 3000 performance" at which level / stack we'll have to wait and see.
From what I'm hearing the "Radeon 20th Anniversary Edition" will get up there a bit
Maybe Big Navi got Small Navi'd ?

 

[Karnak]

It's still big with less power consumption than some GPU's launching this month. No surprise though since Samsung's 8nm is confirmed for GA102/GA104 and NV has to deal with it in terms of not-so-great perf/watt without RTX/DLSS on.

But regardless. Su is a great CEO and she knows how to play games. She also knows how to beat the competition. And she likes it.

 

[uzzi38]

Yeah "RTX 3000 performance" at which level / stack we'll have to wait and see.
From what I'm hearing the "Radeon 20th Anniversary Edition" will get up there a bit
Maybe Big Navi got Small Navi'd ?

Nah, AMD still are looking to show off the true power of their (David) Wang

 

[exquisitechar]

Kopite is hyping RDNA2. Given his perfect track record with Ampere, it just corroborates the good things that the consoles tell us about RDNA2.

 

[Panino Manino]

Digital Foundry is showing the 3080 70-90% (+10% bonus with RT) above the 2080.
Is 40% over the 2080 ti enough for "Big" Navi?
Ampere can also be overclocked.
There's still the 3090 and probably a future 3080 ti.
Can RDNA2 compete in the high end?

 

[Kenmitch]

Can RDNA2 compete in the high end?

Maybe? Maybe not? It really only matters to those shopping the higher end.

If AMD does pull it off they should name the top dog FrameCrusher!

Following is not geared towards you personally and is just a general statement....They know who they are!

If just wanting competition for lower pricing....Karma's a bitch!

 

[darkswordsman17]

I am having a VII and looking to upgrade. I am not feeling the 3080, VRAM is too low and there will be a 20GB model coming for sure, possibly with higher core count. It is either big navi or the 3090 for me.

Sounds like you should wait for the 3080 Ti/Super/GaryCooperSuperDuper. I can almost guarantee they're holding it to try and steal thunder from Big Navi launch since it'll probably be most of the

Its an interesting move by Nvidia. Honestly, this is kinda an AMD style move (wasn't the 5000 series basically a doubling of the 4000 series?).

I'll be interested to see what happens with mobile. These big chips clocked low might offer really good perf/w there (would also be good for CAD market). But I won't be surprised if we instead see those being the first 7nm gaming chips from Nvidia sometime early next year.

 

[Saylick]

If AMD offered a Big Navi that had 16 GB of VRAM and performance roughly equatable to the RTX 3080 in traditional rasterization tasks and noticeable RT performance gains over Turing, but not high enough to beat the 3080, all at the same price as the 3080 ($699) and with reduced TDP (say 275W), would you guys buy that?

 

[blckgrffn]

If AMD offered a Big Navi that had 16 GB of VRAM and performance roughly equatable to the RTX 3080 in traditional rasterization tasks and noticeable RT performance gains over Turing, but not high enough to beat the 3080, all at the same price as the 3080 ($699) and with reduced TDP (say 275W), would you guys buy that?

I like it a lot more at $50 discount and only assuming it has a same-quality (even if slightly smaller) cooler. We need to steal some thunder, right?

LOL at the idea that Ampere can be overclocked - sure. Pretty sure the scaling on power/perf is going to continue to get even worse. We'll see but I am not bullish on it.

TBH, show me the $450 card that out performs the 3070 in traditional rendering, has same RT type performance as the new consoles and has 16GB frame buffer, now we are talking about a card to sell in volume.

 

[thigobr]

Maybe AMD will call the next gen Frameripper!

I really hope they can compete at least with Ampere 3080 at a little bit lower price... We need competition so bad on the GPU side for some time now.

 

[Glo.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300865710621626373

Forgot to post this.

Navi 24

 

[CastleBravo]

If AMD offered a Big Navi that had 16 GB of VRAM and performance roughly equatable to the RTX 3080 in traditional rasterization tasks and noticeable RT performance gains over Turing, but not high enough to beat the 3080, all at the same price as the 3080 ($699) and with reduced TDP (say 275W), would you guys buy that?

No. I don't care about an extra 50 watts TDP. If AMD has equal rasterization but lesser DXR performance along with no DLSS or RTX IO equivalent, I'm getting the 3080. If rasterization is closer to the 3090 I will consider it. I'm not going to wait too long to find out either. If reviews of the 3080 live up to what we saw today and I haven't seen concrete info on AMD having a better option by the time Cyberpunk is released, I'm getting the 3080. Yes, AMD might eventually release something that is a slightly better option for the price, but I don't think they can possibly beat it by a wide margin.

 

[Kuiva maa]

If AMD offered a Big Navi that had 16 GB of VRAM and performance roughly equatable to the RTX 3080 in traditional rasterization tasks and noticeable RT performance gains over Turing, but not high enough to beat the 3080, all at the same price as the 3080 ($699) and with reduced TDP (say 275W), would you guys buy that?

I would be tempted but it would still depend on how faster the 3090 exactly is.I am not fan of the reference cooler JHH showed, but the EVGA ones seemed appealing. Would wait for Asus and MSI designs too. If Big Navi had that 16GB and a clean perf advantage over the 3080, say 10%, I could pay 1k euros for an aftermarket model. The closer it gets to the 3090 the more i would pay.

 

[exquisitechar]

Ampere can also be overclocked.

It's Navi 2x that will have the OC headroom, honestly. PS5 hits 2.2GHz+ clocks and Renoir Vega can OC to 2.4-2.5GHz. Ampere is 320W-350W stock, lol.